Ep. #586: How Andrew Used Bigger Leaner Stronger to Lose 80 Pounds and Get Jacked

Mike: Howie Ho. This is Mike Matthews. Welcome to a new episode of the Muscle for Life podcast. Thank you for taking some time with me today. And this episode is an interview I did with a guy named Andrew who used my bigger, leaner, stronger book slash workout program, and diet regimen to. Form his physique, truly, he lost 80 pounds on the program and gained a bunch of muscle and strength.

And when he started, I guess you could say, right before he found bls, he was about 240 pounds, very out of shape, and he wanted to make a change. And what he did was he started doing cardio. He hopped on the treadmill every day and many hours, countless hours of cardio and countless. Calories as well, eating way too much, and of course not much changed.

And he was confused and frustrated because he felt like he was working way too hard for way too little. I don’t know about you, but I’ve been there. I know what that is like. That is not fun. Eventually, however, Andrew found his way too. My book, Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, and he realized the many mistakes that he was making and what he should be doing instead, and he followed the.

And again, as I mentioned, the plan helped him lose 80 pounds and get jacked basically. And of course, along the way people started noticing friends, coworkers, and they wanted to know, what are you doing? How are you gaining so much strength and losing so much fat and eating foods that you like? And of course, he told them about the book, and that is the primary way my work is promoted.

Actually, I don’t do that much in the way. Advertising. It’s mostly just word of mouth. People read it like it, use it, get results, and then tell others about it. And of course, as they are fitness books, they’re particularly conducive to word of mouth because people notice, they see the changes every day, every week, every month, and want to know how are you doing that?

And so anyway, in this episode we talk about Andrew’s story, how he went from very overweight and very out of shape to very. In shape and quite lean, and we also get into some of the obstacles that he had to overcome, some of the changes he had to make to what you would find in the book. Because I do my best to give a one size fits all approach in my books, but also explain to people that they probably will have to make some changes.

They probably will have to personalize. Diet and training advice to some degree. Some people don’t. Some people can just go, literally buy the book and get to exactly where they want to be. But other people, usually due to lifestyle or just preferences, they need to. Make some changes to my recommendations that I share in the books, and that’s one of the things I like to get into in these interviews because I know there are people out there and maybe listening to this podcast who are in similar situations to the people I’m speaking with and who can learn from their experiences.

And then there’s also the motivational factor of these stories. When you are in the process of transforming your physique, it is nice to hear from people who have done exactly what you want to do, even if it’s just to remind yourself that you can do it, even if it’s just to say, Hey, That guy did it, and he doesn’t have extraordinary genetics or hours a day to sit in the gym or tons of money to spend on custom nutrition plans or even pre-prepared food and so forth.

And if, hey, if he did it, then I can do it too. And so that’s what these interviews, that’s what these success episodes are all. Also, if you like what I’m doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my health and fitness books, including the number one best selling weightlifting books for men and women in the world, Bigger, leaner, stronger, and thinner.

Leaner, stronger, as well as the leading flexible dieting cook. Book The Shredded Chef. Now, these books have sold well over 1 million copies and have helped thousands of people build their best body ever, and you can find them on all major online retailers like Audible, Amazon, iTunes, Cobo, and Google Play, as well as in select Barnes and Noble stores.

And I should also mention that you can get any of the audio books 100%. When you sign up for an Audible account, and this is a great way to make those pockets of downtime, like commuting, meal prepping, and cleaning more interesting, entertaining, and productive. And so if you want to take audible up on this offer, and if you want to get one of my audio books for free, just go to www.buy Legion.

That’s b y legion.com. Audible and sign up for your account. So again, if you appreciate my work and if you wanna see more of it and if you wanna learn time proven and evidence based strategies for losing fat, building muscle and getting healthy, and strategies that work for anyone and everyone, regardless of age or circumstances.

Please do consider picking up one of my best selling books, Bigger, Leaner, Stronger for Men, Thinner, Leaner, Stronger for Women, and the Shredded Chef for my favorite fitness friendly recipes. Andrew, welcome to another quarantined addition of Muscle for Life. 

Andrew: Hey, thanks so much, Mike. It’s great to be here.

Mike: Yeah. Yeah, Appreciate your time. I guess both of us probably have a bit more time than usual these days, but there also are, You mentioned you have a family, so you, I’m assuming you have kids. 

Andrew: No kids for me, but man, you’d be surprised on time. I think it’s amazing what you can fill your life with when you’re a perpetual learner and you’re always into reading and work is still going, so it’s still trying to stay busy for.

Mike: Oh yeah. I hear you. I’m actually wrapping up an article right now that is just here are my thoughts, my personal guide to quarantine life and making the most of it. And of course productivity factors into that in a big way. But then there are other things that we can make time for that maybe we wouldn’t normally make time for that are just for the sake of enjoying our lives a little bit more while we’re stuck inside.

Yeah, exactly. So we’re here to talk about your fitness journey and how I usually like to run these types of episodes. It’s just open ended conversation and I think a good place to start would be before you found me and my work, where were you at? Where were you at in your fitness? How was that affecting maybe others of your life?

What was working for you and had. And what was not working and had not worked. What was the before like?

Andrew: Oh my gosh. To start off I was about 240 pounds definitely, outta shape. And I was leaning toward that traditional style of working out where, it’s like you wanna lose fat.

So you, in my initial journey anyway, I thought, Hey, I gotta get on the treadmill. I. Just beat myself up on the treadmill I’d run for an hour and 20 minutes at whatever pace I could manage. And I didn’t understand macros. I didn’t know how to count protein, carbs, and fats.

And I didn’t even understand energy balance from a calories perspective. So I just thought, hey, I hopped on the treadmill and I worked out today and I ran for an hour. I can eat what I eat, what I want, because I worked out and it just, it didn’t compute in my brain what I needed to do.

So I really, one day I really got frustrated and I thought, Hey, I’m putting all this work in on this treadmill and I’m running and it’s just nothing is changing. What can I do? So I started an internet search and looked, Hey, what’s the best pre-workout? Cuz I thought, eh, I’m gonna start maybe trying to lift some weights.

And I looked on the internet and I kept coming across Pulse, which one of my favorite products. I absolutely love Pulse, but I thought, this is, let me try this. So I stumbled upon your website from just finding your pre-workout. And when I did that, I started reading some of the articles and then realized you had a book Bigger Leaner and  Stronger.

And I thought, Oh my gosh. Who doesn’t wanna be Bigger league or Stronger? This program is absolutely perfect for me. So I bought them. And something that’s always stuck with me is that, I’ve heard that, don’t read 10 books one time, read one book 10 times. And I really took that to heart with bigger, leaner, stronger because I wanted to learn, I wanted to develop.

And the content in bigger, leaner, stronger is just so spot on. It’s so easy to understand. And really, once I was able to lay out, hey, this. Macronutrients are, this is the program you should be doing for lifting weights. If you want to really burn body fat and build muscle and be able to eat more food, you need to be lifting weights.

So that’s how I found bigger than or Stronger was really through that internet search. And like I said, I started off about 240 pounds and pre bls I was doing a lot of cardio, only cardio. And then I read the Bigger, Leaner, Stronger book and completely changed the program. I ran the bigger, leaner, Stronger program and was able to lose about 80 pounds and 22% body.

Mike: Wow. And over what period of time? 

Andrew: It was about probably about nine months, 10 months. 

Mike: That’s fantastic. That’s outstanding. 

Andrew: Oh my gosh. Your program was great. But one thing that I didn’t take to heart is that I did a little bro science and I thought, Hey, I’m gonna cut my calories all the way down as low as I can go, tend to my bmr.

You do things in your own knowledge sometimes, and you think it’s better and it’s just not. So I went a really long time without taking any kind of diet breaks or. That. So I got phenomenal results, but I think I could have had a lot, a better path there and I probably could have preserved some more muscle as I was going through the program.

Mike: Overall, it still worked out phenomenal and I think you learn as you go, but ironically, I think you did it at the time when you can most get away with it, which is if you are overweight and you’re new to proper, heavy, Weightlifting. So your body is hypersensitive to it and hyperresponsive and yeah, you learned that’s not the best way of going about it, but I would say you paid the least price for it, actually, because if you were to do that now that you’re an experienced weightlifter, you’re a lot stronger.

You have more muscle. If you were to just go straight to your BMR or even below your BMR and just go balls to the wall. The outcome would be you. You would lose a fair amount of muscle, whereas sure, through that process you didn’t just lose a bunch of body fat. You were more muscular at the end of it.

I’m sure even if it’s hard to see in the mirror because you went from looking at a certain type of body to a much leaner body. But if you look at your whole body strength, I’m guessing that’s before and after your whole body strength went up quite a bit. 

Andrew: Oh, it’s unbelievable, my, even just like deadlift when I started, I’m 240 pounds and I’m struggling to deadlift 205 pounds, with good form.

And when I was finished, I’m all the way down right at a hundred fifty eight, a hundred sixty pounds, and I’m able to deadlift about three 90. 

Mike: Yeah. So that’s huge. You’re not losing muscle while building a deadlift like that. 

Andrew: Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, no, and it’s perfect. And I think, especially as read through bigger, lean or stronger multiple times. And I have every addition. Like when 2.0 came out, I bought it When 3.0 came out, I bought it and I learned new things in each addition and you just continue to grow and develop. And it’s just such a great program, especially as people get started.

And I just, I can’t stress enough how many people out there and how many people I know in my own life that they wanna lose weight and they wanna get fit, but all they do is this endless. Cardio, and restrict calories. And it’s just when you figure out what clicks and what really works for the body, it’s so much easier than what people think.

Mike: True. And it’s so much more enjoyable. How was that process for you? Because what you were doing before. You already had alluded to that. It was frustrating, I understand. To be doing that much exercise and not really see anything change. How has that changed for you in terms of just pure enjoyment? Before and after?

Andrew: Before when I, it was absolutely dreadful to have to go down and get on the treadmill for an hour and you. You’d finish up and you’d just be like, Man, this is, and this was really tough and you just hated to do it. Every day you’d wake up and you’d hate to do it. And obviously when you do something like that, it’s not sustainable long term.

Right now, currently where I’m at is that I just focus on my neat and my daily steps and going for walks and things like that, and I don’t do a lot of hit, maybe just a little bit of. Through the process of BLS I was lifting and I also threw in some hit workouts probably two or three times a week.

And that really did help me to maximize the fat loss. But right now where I’m at is just getting the steps in. And so I’m really doing hardly any cardio other than just that daily activity and able to maintain phenomenal results. And the big thing about that, it’s like you said that in that form, I’ll continue to do that for a lifetime.

And really, fitness is lifetime, right? It’s not just get fit and you’re. So much more enjoyable this way. And I actually love lifting weights. And I think the other thing about that too is that you’ve gotta find the right form when you’re lifting weights. And your website gives a lot of great blogs on this.

And if you’re just pushing the weight up and doing a bunch of extra weight just to try to get the numbers up, you’re not working the right muscles. And it’s just so much harder. Really developing your muscles and your body in the right way by using perfect form and not going on, too heavy is just really.

Mike: Totally. And it’s also critical for safety as well. Weightlifting’s not an inherently dangerous activity. Actually, quite a bit of research has shown that, but you gotta do it right. , weightlifting, the way that some people we see in back when we used to go to gyms, what they’re doing, it actually is dangerous.

But when you learn how to do it correctly it’s actually a very safe activity. You’re more likely to get hurt just playing on like a flag football team, for example.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. And that’s another thing I love about bigger Than or Stronger, is that, that book is so encompassing of everything you need to know and understand.

 You go through, especially the big lifts, dead lift, squat, bench overhead press, those types of things on the proper form, how to do them. and you’re dialed into that and also into the nutrition and the programming. So it’s just such a great program and outline for anybody, especially new beginning lifters to jump in and to start weight training.

They don’t have to be scared of it. Read the book and follow the information and the advice. 

Mike: Thank you. Thank you. I’m curious, how is your perception of the. Third edition versus let’s say the second edition. Cause there had been a number of years in between the two and it really, a third edition as was like a rewrite from scratch.

Core fundamentals didn’t change of course, but I tried to explain things better, organize things better. I’m just curious. 

Andrew: My perspective is by both. But no. I like, I think obviously, yeah anytime you do something over and over again, you get better at it, right? So I think your third edition, the writing is just continually improves and gets better.

And I think, it does, like you said, explain the content more in depth and kind of paint a clear picture. So I really enjoyed both versions and, to this day I still refer back to Bigger Lean or Stronger 2.0 and look at things in 3.0 and just compare. So overall, it’s an excellent rewrite and I think, like you said it, it really does go a little more in depth and explain things a little deeper, which helps out a lot.

Mike: Yeah, a lot of that was based on just feedback that I’d gotten from readers, so it was a big advantage having emailed with so many people over the years. People would ask good questions and make good suggestions, and so I would just take notes, and so I was able to very much tailor what was being removed, changed, and added to real.

Life circumstances, like people were reading the book and then not sure about what to do at this point. So I was able to address those things, which was pretty cool. 

Andrew: Yeah, and I love when you go, tips for better cuts and tips for better lean bulk and things like that. And obviously you talk about supplements in both books, but yeah, I mean it’s it just goes a little more in depth and like you said, when people ask questions and then you can clarify for the masses, it’s critical. So it’s really important. 

Mike: Totally, really enjoyed it. Totally cool.

If you like what I’m doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my health and fitness books, including the number one best selling weightlifting books for men and women in the world, Bigger, leaner, Stronger, and Thinner Leaner, Stronger, as well as the leading flexible dieting cookbook, the shredded.

Let’s talk about what were some of the major obstacles you had to overcome in your journey. So you started, as I mentioned before we started recording, I’ve done my best to try to give a kind of one size fits all approach in bigger, leaner, stronger, and address some of the changes that you can make if you need to.

But inevitably when people get into the. Routine of meal planning and training. There are things that come up that weren’t necessarily addressed in the book, and so I’m curious, what were some of the more difficult aspects of your transformation and how did you overcome them? 

Andrew: Yeah, so I think really gonna, it’s twofold.

The first part is nutrition, and I think nutrition is extremely important. And, if you’re gonna go for a body building show or if you’re gonna do a physique competition, you’ve gotta be really dialed in. And that wasn’t ever my intent in the initial beginning. My initial thought was I want to, burn some body fat and build some muscle.

And I think as I got going and I learned to count my macros, I got almost overly focused on hitting every single carb exactly the way with the right exact timing and all that stuff can be important. But I think for general overall health, I think I got a little too focused on that. And I think I learned as I went through the program, like if I’m up 10 carbs this day and down 10 this day, it’s not a huge deal, so I think just being a little more relaxed, help me on that, because obviously it’s a lifestyle.

Mike: I totally remember that I went through the same in the, when I first learned about calories and macros. That’s just kinda my personality. Were probably similar in that way. If I do something, I want to do it as well as I possibly can.

And so if we’re talking about meal planning, that means following it to down to the last calorie, right? . Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. And then trying to find every food that is the perfect macro makeup and what are the most nutritious foods and kind of all that. So almost took that, I think definitely to the extreme.

And I think there’s, a case to be made for making sure that you’re eating whole foods and you’re being healthy, but there’s also a case to be made for living your life a little bit too, and enjoying it. So I definitely got a little bit too focused on that, and that was I had to overcome, especially when you don’t need to be that precise, actually, like you actually do.

Mike: If, like you mentioned if you’re trying to step on stage, especially if you’re doing it naturally and you don’t have a bunch, you have, you don’t have the assistance of a bunch of drugs and you’re, let’s say you’re at 6% body fat and you’re just trying to get down to the last, the last little bit of fat that you need to lose, you do have to be very precise.

You’re never gonna get down to the exact calorie, but you do need to be weighing and measuring everything and. That’s just part of that game, but that’s not what even I’m doing. That’s not what any of us are doing. If you are just wanting to, let’s say, get down into the range of, if you’re a guy, eight to 10% body fatter, if you’re a woman, maybe 18 to 20%, which is where most people like to be.

Yeah, we need to be. Good enough with our meal planning, but we don’t have to try to be perfect. We don’t have to take it that far. So it’s good that you learned that and in that point that you mentioned of, okay, so you’re over a little bit one day big deal. Then so what? Be a little bit under the next day.

You don’t have to even know that you are exactly 10 carbs over if you just know that eh. I probably ate an extra couple hundred calories today. And then especially when you’re in maintenance, right? And I’m sure you’ve experienced this where it’s very easy then to just dip in Bob based on your day to day.

Andrew: Just how you’re eating is playing out, right? Yeah, that’s a hundred percent right. And when I figured it out, if I’d eat more carbs, I’d just tell myself I was carb cycling. So little tips and tricks. But I do love that, and I do love that now as you learn your body and you learn through your workouts and being able to cycle carbs, and I think that it’s fun to do.

Mike: It’s fun to just play around and see what carbs can do for your performance and how they make you feel. So that was. Challenge was learning that you don’t have to be as OCD about your calorie intake as you thought going in. 

Andrew: Yeah, a hundred percent. And the second one was training, Trying to be a perfectionist and do everything you know.

Perfect. And really focusing on form is like I did a little weight training when I was younger, when I was probably 18, 19 with a friend of mine. And we would wait train and we didn’t know what we were doing. We would just do the basics of what we thought was right. But I think I instilled some bad movement patterns and things like that.

So really, I think the second challenge I had was overcoming those movement patterns, in doing things with the right form and, really priming. Before I worked out and just making sure my body was ready and focusing on working the right muscles and the right movements. It’s easy to let your body take over cuz your body’s looking kind of to take the easiest motion possible to achieve what you’re trying to tell it to do.

But to work the right muscle is that mind muscle connection’s important. And I think that was the second challenge I had, was really trying to focus on that, to develop my body in an aesthetic. 

Mike: And how did you improve in that regard? Cause I totally agree. I remember when I first learned how to squat properly, I had worked up to 4 0 5 for like quarter squats.

And then I learned about the proper, the importance of hitting proper depth. And I was like, Oh, okay. And I didn’t reduce the weight and got to the bottom and was like, Oh, this is not coming up, and had to bail. So I remember having to learn that like on a number of exercises, which pretty much just meant cutting my weight to, I went from 4 0 5 for quarter squats, if I remember correctly, to 180 5 for sets of eight to 10.

Yeah. I’ve had a lot of those Humbling. Yeah. Yeah. So I totally know how that goes, but how have you improved in your skill of weightlifting? That’s really what we’re talking about here, right? 

Andrew: It is, It’s a skill. It’s a complete skill that you have to practice. And I think you have helped tremendously in BLS to lay out the right form.

And then I think you always say it too, is like there’s little hope for people who aren’t perpetual learners. And so I’m out there finding resources and I’m really utilizing you. Like the general contractor of my fitness to where, I really trust what you’ve put out there so you know, if I find other people through you, I really feel a sense of wellbeing and trust in them too.

And so Mark rto starting strength I think is great and going through Mark’s stuff and I love hearing him on the podcast. And also mind pump, a lot of mind pump. Information. I think those guys do a great job laying out how important it is to practice the skill of what you’re doing it, treated as a skill.

It’s like you said, you can bench press 2 85, but anytime they ask you to do a four second negative, you gotta drop it down at 90 pounds. So it’s really just focusing on the skill and the practice with range of motion on what you’re doing. 

Mike: Totally. And as far as mind muscle connection goes, what.

Mean for you and how has that been incorporated into your training? Because for most people starting out, and I understand, I remember we were just trying to, I remember you’re just trying to move your body in a halfway smooth kind of elegant, correct fashion. And then though, once you start getting your form down, there is that point of where you can benefit now from putting your attention on the muscles that you are trying to train.

Again, this sounds like when I first heard about this from bodybuilders, I was like, Yeah, is that, is it even necessary? Does it really matter if I’m so long as I’m doing the movement and it’s not a make break point, some bodybuilders, I’ve heard them try to say that that’s the key is mind muscle connection and I don’t.

Agree and research on it, I guess wouldn’t agree, but I do think it’s worth highlighting because once you have your form down, you can definitely enhance your, I think you can enhance your enjoyment of the workout and you probably also can enhance a bit of your results over time. So how has that manifested for you though?

Andrew: Like how do you make that mind muscle connection? I think you’re spot on because I think once you make that mind muscle connection, you can work the muscle you’re intending to work. And how I do it is that I prime before every workout. So I’ll spend time doing different mobility movements and trying to engage the muscle and activate the muscle.

And the other thing is too, is like really slow down your reps and really try to feel that muscle working. So a lot of people, you know when you tell ’em. Engage your lats, They really can’t. Or the abs are one, two. So many times people are doing AB workouts and they’re like, I feel it in my neck, or, 

Mike: Yeah, or my back.

Andrew: Yeah, my back. Yeah. So like you’re trying to work the abs. So also understanding the anatomy of what each body part does, I think has helped me a little bit. I don’t wanna work my abs and just work my hip flexors only, the idea is to work my ab trying to feel the muscle and do a little bit of pre priming workout and slow down.

My reps has helped me that’s what’s worked for me anyway. 

Mike: Yeah, that makes sense. I’m not generally a fan of super slow rep training. There’s quite a bit of research that’s been done on it that shows it is not more effective for muscle or strength gain than just a normal, let’s say, a normal cadence, of. Twoish seconds down, probably a slight pause, twoish, seconds up controlled, but also fairly quickly. You’re not consciously trying to slow it down. However, for the purpose of working on form and for the purpose of making that mind muscle connection, I think there’s definitely value in that. If I were recommending it to somebody, I’d say it would probably be something to do on your warmup sets.

Like I wouldn’t do the. In my hard sets, like that’s where you want to be explosive, but in your warmup sets, that could be a good opportunity to, or at least with one, or let’s say you’re doing, depending on, like I changed the warmup routine a little bit from the first segment or third edition, but at least maybe on one of your warmup sets.

Kind of slow it down and really feel your body moving, feel your limbs moving, feel your muscles moving, and focus on the muscle working, the muscle that you are primarily trying to work. I think there’s definitely value. Yeah, because I always think about what’s my goal?

Andrew: And for too long I, I think I was trying to, I knew what my goal was.

It was to develop an aesthetic physique, but I wasn’t doing the right things to develop the aesthetic physique. I was in the gym trying to lift the most amount of weight, the number, as opposed to really focusing on hypertrophy and form. And I think that just all goes back, it. You’ve got the right form.

You should be feeling it in the muscle that you’re trying to work. And it’s like you’re doing dumbbell curls. You don’t wanna swing ’em up, you wanna focus on working the bicep. So those things are all important, that my muscle connection is something that’s critical to at least know. I think what muscle you’re trying to work and what exercise you’re trying to do, and know that you’re not just trying to cheat the rep.

Mike: You’re just cheating yourself when you do that. Yep. Very true. Did you run into any. Issues or any obstacles related to the types of foods that you’re eating? Like how were you eating when you were 240 pounds? Were you eating generally nutritious foods or was your diet a lot different than it is now?

Andrew: No, I, it’s interesting when I, it’s like I’ll try to help people through a weight loss journey, especially after going through it yourself and you realize how easy it can be and, just working with a local company here in Indianapolis named Tandem Nutrition and like just teaching people that.

You’re in a really a perfect storm. You know when you’re like me and you’re 240 pounds and all you’re eating is highly processed foods, it’s like your body is primed to lose weight if we just change a couple of things. So for me, 240 pounds, I was eating pizza and tacos and especially at 240 pounds.

At this time, I didn’t know what. Macros were, So I’d go to a restaurant and I’d be like, Hey, I’m gonna have the salmon and I’m gonna have these brussel sprouts. But the salmon, even though it’s salmon, it’s great. It, the way it’s prepared is not as healthy as it could be, and the same thing with the brussel sprouts.

They’d be brussel sprouts, but they’d also have four strips of bacon and who knows what in ’em. And I would, 

Mike: Yeah, Where it’s a thousand calorie side of brussel routes yet.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. In my head, I would think, Hey, I’m doing. I’m running on the treadmill for an hour. I’m doing cardio.

I’m eating my cruciferous veggies. Yes. Yeah. And it’s just, it’s hilarious how it is. And then you go into something and you read something like Bigger Lean or Stronger, and you realize Oh my gosh, what I’m doing is, it’s so easy. But people just don’t have that knowledge. And I really am passionate about telling people about Legion or about Tandem Nutrition, about helping people understand we just need to make some small changes to help you lose some weight.

And a big piece of. For me was changing the foods I eat. So I was eating pizza tacos and that, but I was also going out thinking I was eating healthy. And how that changed is that, as I read your book and started going through like how to weigh food and everything in grams and preparing meals at home in the healthy way, literally just taking away that cardio, focusing on weight training, changing my diet and drinking more water.

And I know those are a lot of changes for people, but for me they weren’t challenging. I just didn’t have the knowledge base. And no, when I did that, the weight literally started to fall off. Losing 80 pounds in 22% body fat in nine or 10 months is life changing. And then everybody asks you, What are you doing?

And I’m just thinking to myself, I just, I read this one book, Bigger Lean or Stronger and just, getting the word out. 

Mike: So that’s where I was prior to bigger leaner stronger. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And was that transition from how you’re eating. Previously to how you’re eating now, which is probably very similar to how you’re eating that what kind of got you here.

I’m sure not much has changed. Was that hard for you? Did you have to give up stuff that you like? For instance, let’s take pizza. Of course you can have some pizza. I’m sure you still have some pizza here and there, but you can’t have a large pizza every day. Not that you initially were before, but there is a point where if you are also going to provide your body with adequate nutrition, you.

Just eat whatever you want. You can’t just look at calories and macros. So was there any kind of transition period that you had to go through there, or was it pretty straightforward? 

Andrew: Yeah, I mean there definitely was transition when you’re giving up things, but like you said, you don’t have to give it up forever.

You just have to understand what you’re putting in your body and. How it makes you feel. The other thing I would say too is that when I switched over and started eating more Whole Foods, and like I said, I found, mine Pump through you and they work with Butcher Box. So these healthy foods, these grass fed, grass finished beef and these whole foods, when I started putting them in my body after just a short time, three, four weeks, I started to realize like I feel.

A million times better. My body started responding in other ways to where it makes me not want to go back and eat that processed food. Yep. So every now and then, it’s great to have some pizza. I last year I went to New York and I went to get some pizza. A hundred percent.

Manhattan is a great place to be and I had a lot of nice restaurants. So I think you gotta have a balance in life. So I don’t totally give it up, but for the most part, the way I feel when I eat foods, that Whole Foods, I just feel better. And, my body’s primed and ready to go. So honestly, when I look back at it, you love chocolate cake, but the way it makes you feel versus the way other things make you feel, it’s just, it’s not worth it.

Mike: Yep. Yep. And that’s a very common experience, even for people who would maybe even say that they felt like they were addicted to food previously, or certain types of foods, but it didn’t take long. Usually it’s only a few weeks, maybe a month, maybe six weeks before. That their relationship with food just fundamentally starts to change and they start to enjoy eating more nutritious foods just inherently.

They start looking forward to it and they notice more energy. They notice they sleep better. They notice there are so many different ways that it can positively impact the body that are noticeable. And so then the idea of going back to eating the way that they were eating, it’s not even an option anymore.

Andrew: So that’s pretty. The sleep was unbelievable. I think that was a huge change is that you eat a whole large pizza from wherever and you get it delivered and you just don’t feel good and you don’t sleep well. And when you change your diet, your sleep changes. It’s just it’s just natural for your body to do that.

And it seems so. Simple, but we just don’t do it. Many people don’t do it, and when you start eating those whole healthy foods, you’re just nourishing your body and giving it the right nutrients. So it, it makes a big difference in your sleep. 

Mike: Yeah. And the training as well. 

Andrew: Hey, I can make, I can tell a huge difference when I, when my diet’s on point and I’m in the gym and I’m lifting versus when, I’ve.

Eating pizza or tacos or whatever it is, and you try to go lift, you just don’t feel as good. 

Mike: You don’t feel as strong. What are you doing these days as far as workouts go? And I’m not sure exactly when this is gonna be going up. I’d have to look on the calendar, but this is, we are still under lockdown.

The beer virus is still disrupting everything. This is April 2nd 

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. When I bought my house, I had unfinished basement, so I finished the basement and it’s about 1200 square feet. And I have a full home gym down there. So I’ve got Powerade. Oh, nice leg. Across cable. 

Mike: On and on. So you can’t, yeah, you can’t complain about home workouts. 

Andrew: Yeah. I have a lot of new friends right now but no, the word is getting out.

Mike: Yeah exactly right.

Andrew: I name my gym heavy debt just cuz I feel like every time I walk in the gym, that’s what I owe to it, to be able to. Lift and to grow and develop, but it’s yeah, at home gym, which is phenomenal, especially when it’s freezing cold outside or it’s late or whatever.

There’s never an excuse to miss a workout. Right now I’m running different maps programs from mine pump and really enjoying what those guys are putting out there. And also a local company I work with, Tandem Nutrition here in Indianapolis has some programs that are really good. But, bigger, lean, stronger really for me was the foundation of what I was able to develop and build upon.

And I think those, it’s like Rippetoe talks about those core lifts are really so important. And I think bigger, Lean Stronger helped me develop the dead lift, the squat, the bench, the overhead press, which had been critical cornerstones in my training. 

Mike: Totally. That is a segue and something I should let you and everybody, I think I’ve mentioned it a couple times now, but I have a new second edition of Beyond Bigger Leaders, Stronger Coming this summer.

It’s almost done. My work on. It’s almost done. And if you would like even be a Bay Reader, let me know. I’d, I’ll send you, I’ll send you the manuscript. And I’d be curious as to your thoughts on the programming. I’ve been running it for probably eight months now as I’ve continued to develop it and really like it.

And to that point where you were making with Bigger, stronger, I never intended it to be this is, hey, this is the only program you should you need or should ever. Do. I would say if you’re a guy and you’re new to weight lifting and your goal is to gain, let’s say about 25, maybe 30 pounds of muscle, you actually probably don’t need anything other than bigger, lean or stronger period.

But there is a point where bigger, lean, stronger becomes a maintenance program. So even if we take the fact that variety can just be fun, it can just be fun to do another program. If you were really just looking at bottom line results, there is a point where bigger, leaner, stronger will no longer allow you to progress.

It just becomes a maintenance program. And I talk about this in this new second edition of Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger. And so at that point, from purely the perspective of results, it makes sense to go, Okay, where do I go from here? And that’s really what this new second edition of Beyond Bigger Lean or Stronger it’s gonna be.

I actually don’t know what the final word count is. It’s probably gonna be about as big as BLS 3.0 and it’s gonna be my full all in comprehensive answer to what do I do next to get as jacked as I possibly can. So I would love to get your feedback on it and see what you think of the programming.

Andrew: Yeah, I would love to read it. I have Beyond Bigger Lean or Stronger the first edition and it’s like having extra things in there, like breaking through different weight lifting plateaus and stuff like that’s really great. So yeah, I would love the beta, read it and would for sure put the time in and give you some great feedback.

Mike: Awesome. Awesome. I’ll get you. Yeah I have your emails. 

Andrew: I have a whole collection of these books and how I’ve got the shredded chef. I’ve got the little black book of workout motivation. I just, I’m waiting for you. You’re the man for content. 

Mike: You’re the perfect beta reader.

Andrew: Yeah, exactly right. No, so but honestly, it’s You’re always leery of the guy who sells supplements, who’s pushing supplements. Like they’re gonna do everything for you. And I think one of the first things I saw in Legion and Bigger Lean or stronger was, Legion’s a supplement company.

And I think you’re the first person to say you don’t need any of it. There’s some core critical things that you can take like fish oil and a multivitamin that are nice, but you don’t need any of it to build muscle. So you that, for me, that really drew me in. I’m like, Here’s a guy who runs a supplement company who’s saying you don’t need supplements.

Mike: Yeah. And it’s the truth. Yeah. It’s funny though. Even now, there are quite a few companies out there that have now tried to ape a lot of what legion’s doing, which I understand that’s marketing, but even now I don’t see many companies who are willing to, just to say that. It’s funny to me, where it does probably provide me a little bit of a marketing or perception advantage.

It’s a little bit of a unique part of the unique selling proposition of Legion, but I’m surprised other companies aren’t just coming out and saying it as blatantly as I am because it’s true. And it does have a persuasive appeal to it. Just to get someone to listen, to say, Hey, cuz that, that’s the, as far as copywriting go and persuasion goes right, especially right.

The first words that you’re gonna say to somebody, have to draw them in. You have to keep them listening, keep them reading. And so that was why when I originally. Putting together what is the core of this brand that seems counterintuitive. Like some people that maybe don’t understand marketing or persuasion would say, would think that, Oh, that’s dumb.

You’re just gonna turn people off and send people away. And I would say maybe some people, but those are gonna be the lower awareness, lower sophistication. And I don’t mean stupid. Those are. Technical terms, marketing wise, just people who are new and maybe would go for the pills that claim to help you lose 20 pounds of fat in a month.

Just swallow the pills. And there’s a reason why there’s a lot of those products. There are people, again, they’re not stupid per se, they’re just not sophisticated yet, and they’re like, Hey, I’m new to this. This shit says I’m gonna lose 20 pounds in 30 days. I might as well try it. What’s the worst case scenario, right?

I lose 30 bucks. But then when those people get burned a couple times, they become more sophisticated and then if they find their way to legion, just like what you’re saying. Then my message resonates a lot more than a lot of the stuff that my competitors say, which are just over the top, over hyped, buzzword laden marketing claims that the products can’t possibly deliver on.

Andrew: And I love that you explain in BLS and on your website everything that’s in your products, and it’s like you can go to the local supplement shop and you can buy protein powder and it’s just full of trash and your stuff is so clean and, I know you say you don’t need supplements, but QME buying every single supplement that Legion sells I, I love them all.

All the way down to Lunar, take lunar once or twice a week maybe, and I can tell, I track my sleep and I can tell in those days I sleep better. I get deeper sleep. And it’s not just like a mind. Not me waking up saying, Hey, I think I got better sleep. It’s like actually sleep trackers and it shows like deeper sleep and more restfulness.

So I certainly buy into Legion stuff and I know you don’t need supplements, but I literally have everything. And that’s the other thing too, is that there’s days when you’re busy and you have a hard time getting your protein in. I don’t mind taking Legion protein powder because the ingredients in it as opposed to taking something.

Packed full of Oh, this has chips, so holy chunk cookies in it. That’s not what I’m going for here. I’m trying to get my protein, but I want it in a clean way. So you definitely have some great products. 

Mike: Totally. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate a lot of the products Were, again, just me scratching my own itch.

It’s me going. That’s how the whole brand started was I just wanna make stuff that I want. And if there was some other company, if Legion would’ve already existed back in the beginning, I may not have done it. I may have just reached out to them and say, Hey, you’re basically doing exactly what I want to do.

Is there a way we can work together? But it just didn’t exist. So I was like, Yeah, worst case scenario is. I get stuff that I like and maybe it doesn’t turn into some big business. I felt like at the time I had enough of a following. I wasn’t worried about getting stuck with like the initial production run, but it’s just been fun to be able to do that again, to be able to just continually scratch my own itches and to see that there are other people out there who like the same things that 

Andrew: I like, yeah, that’s for sure. I think my favorite of all of ’em has gotta be Pulse, 

Mike: But that’s what started it all. Pulse has. Cult following at this point. Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. And I love both. I know the formulation has changed a little bit and I love the improved ingredients. I like the, for me personally, just the taste of the older one with the ornithine in it.

Oh, you do? Okay. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. It’s my own thing because it’s so hard cuz flavoring is so subjective. Where I would say the overall response to the, we’ve made several updates to the flavor just as we’ve upgraded from Flavor Labs. And some labs are, they’re just better than others. Flavoring is actually much more.

Art than a science. Like you can’t go to school to learn flavoring. It’s like an old school, almost like medieval system where you are protege of the master flavor and depending on who taught, you it impacts your ability. And probably similar to sommelier, like how well you can smell and taste things is gonna.

Factor majorly in how good of a flavor artist you are. But but anyways the general response has been, oh, people like each new iteration, they’ve liked more than the last, but, oh, it’s so great. I understand there are people who, even individual flavors, people are like, Oh, I really like the new green apple, but I prefer the previous blue raspberry.

Andrew: It’s hard. Yeah, no, it’s still a wonderful product and I know, and the things in it just keep getting better. You guys add Alpha GPC in it and things like that. And I also love that you guys don’t put in things that aren’t clinically dosed and they’re not, they’re unknown, so there’s different things out there with supplement.

Companies will throw it in there and they just don’t know the research on the product. I feel very comfortable taking Legion supplements because I know you guys do your. . 

Mike: Yep. To that point, there’s also a reason why we don’t necessarily just take a kitchen sink approach, which there are some pre-workouts out there that have more actives than pulse, but some of the ingredients are redundant.

Some of the doses are too low, and I can’t take credit for the ingenuity and the work that goes into the formulations. That’s really the scientific advisory board, and I would say Curtis Frank, who heads it up, who’s. Co-founder and former lead researcher and writer [email protected]. This is really his forte and he does a great job really thinking deeply about each ingredient and why it’s going in the product and how it’s gonna interact with other ingredients and not putting stuff in there that is, there’s the obvious, like not putting stuff in there that’s ineffective, but then there also are not so obvious things like, Okay.

Does it make sense to have three different adaptogens in product A, whatever it is, right? No, because when two of them work very similarly in the body you’re not really gonna gain anything more by doubling or even tripling up. Does it make more sense to go down to one and then use the. It’s really what it comes down to is if it’s a pill, it’s space and the pill.

And then there’s also the money to use that for something else that’s actually going to better suit the purpose of the product. And so there is very much an art to formulation as well. It’s not just like Cruise PubMed, abstracts pick every supplement, pick every ingredient you can find that has any sort of efficacy.

Throw it all together and voila. That doesn’t necessarily make a great product. 

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. Just dump it all in there and give it a ride and see what happens. And you guys do a great job to put the right things in there. It’s much appreciated. And I always find creative ways to take it too.

I’ll take some like sugar free jello and mix it in with pulse and then put, make it a freezer pop or something crazy. So just more creative ways to take pulse. It’s just fun. 

Mike: The old we thought about, could we turn these into gummies? 

Andrew: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you probably could. I’m sure. The only thing I wish is that you could find some way to make my body not caffeine tolerant.

So it’s just you gotta cycle it on and off if you really want the true effects of caffeine, which is unfortunate and hard to do, but sometimes you gotta do that to get the feeling back. 

Mike: All right, man. This was a great discussion. I really appreciate you taking the time to do it, and if you have anything else you wanna leave everybody with, let’s let them know.

Andrew: Yeah, I just, If you don’t have BLS or you haven’t read it or you don’t know about it, it’s just a great book. So spend the time, read it, and really understand it. It’s like I said, Read one book 10 times. Don’t read 10 books one time. 

Mike: Just really understand the content, and that’s a good point actually, that’s worth punching up a little bit, especially when it’s a how to book like bigger, leaner, stronger, or if you’re a woman, thinner, leaner, stronger, even if you don’t necessarily wanna get thinner.

I had a hard time going. I went back and forth on should this book be called Fitter, leaner, Stronger, or thinner? Leaner, Stronger. Ultimately, I. Thinner because in speaking with a lot of women, the overwhelming majority of them who are finding their way to me wanted to lose weight. So they wanted to be thinner.

But regardless if you’re a thin woman who wants to get more muscle definition, thinner, leaner, stronger actually is for you. But when you have a book that has a lot of information and is very practical, you were absolutely correct in saying, Okay, this is a lot of information. I’m gonna make sure.

Thoroughly understand this, and I’m going to put this to you so I’m not gonna now go read seven more books and maybe just come out the other end actually more confused and not sure what to do anymore. So that was a smart move. Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah. Thank you. And it’s not like BLS might work for you. It might not like it’ll work if you follow the principles in bls, if you understand them and follow them properly, you’ll get the results you want.

So for me, between bigger, leaner, stronger, and Tandem Nutrition in Indianapolis losing 80 pounds and 22% body fat. Completely changed my life and it’s also flipped fitness and nutrition to a new mood and a new mode for me to where it’s a lifetime thing and I enjoy doing it because I’m doing it the right way and accomplishing what I set out to do and able to maintain a great physique.

Now, I got down to about 158 pounds at 7% body fat, and. Using principles through bigger, lean, stronger, and also the coach here in Indianapolis. It’s like I’m, right now I’m 184 pounds and I’m probably 9% body fat. So just That’s awesome. Yeah, it’s just been a great journey and again, it’s something like you talk about fitness for life and I think that’s what, we don’t have a weight loss problem in this country.

We. Have a problem where people can lose weight, but then they, Yo-yo diet right back up. And if you look at BLS and you stick to those principles, it can be really easy to maintain the body weight that you want. And the other thing is too, the Shredded Chef is a great book. There’s a lot of awesome recipes in there too that I really enjoy.

Mike: So just some great stuff. Awesome. Thanks again, Andrew. And I’ll quickly just add that there’s a lot that we’re gonna benefit from what we’re doing right now as we get older too. So I’m also working on a book that I’m gonna be doing. I’m gonna be publishing with Simon and Schuster, and that’s gonna be out next summer.

And it’s gonna be specifically for. 40 plus crowd, men and women, and it’s going to accommodate people who are brand new. So it’ll be, it’ll accommodate the 60 year old guy or gal who’s overweight and has never even picked up a weight before in their life, has never really even trained their muscles. As well as the 45 year old guy or gal who’s actually in pretty good shape.

They just want to get to the next level. And they do work out, Maybe they do train their muscles, but it might be similar to where you were at actually in year before where you weren’t lifting weights but you were exercising. So let’s say just instead of doing cardio, you were doing, bodybuilder workouts, things that magazine workouts or something, but you’re like, Fuck, why am I still fat?

Why am I not looking better? You know what I mean? And so my point was saying That as I’m about probably 60% through that manuscript now and done a lot of the research on a lot of the work has done in terms of the long term effects of what we’re doing and what you’re doing. And a lot of people listening are doing what I’m doing.

It really is the magic bullet for anti-aging, right? That’s a big longevity is a big button and the stuff that we’re doing. Is really the best. It is. The 80% it is the 20% that gives the 80%. So it’s pretty cool too. I think you’ll appreciate anybody who is in a position like you or me or again, a lot of the people listening are gonna appreciate when that book comes out and they read Oh wow, this means like if I just keep doing this, I can be 80 years old and in great shape physically and mentally and still be enjoying my.

And really be able to maintain that quality of life until the end. Like it’s all gonna end one day for us. But if we do the right things throughout our life. And as you’ve talked about, there are things that we’ve come to enjoy and they’re like the natural things that we just do if we just keep doing it.

We have a long. Vibrant future to look forward to. 

Andrew: Yeah. And isn’t that the goal? You wanna live a long life? That’s the idea. And like you said, it’s doing the big rocks and really focusing on those things. And that’s what BLS or Thinly Stronger would give a female. They give you the core basics that you need to do to really see success.

And, for me it’s I think we are a lot alike because I do, I like to do the 1% things too, where I do the juve red light. And get into all these little micro details of what I can do to try to maximize my fitness. And that stuff’s great, but really the bulk of what gives you the results are the things that bigger lean or stronger will teach you.

So it’s I’m so excited to hear that you’re developing that new genre and the new book that you’re gonna put out there to some of the other folks that, maybe they’re in their fifties or sixties and have never picked up a weight. Because I do have a lot of people in my family that I want to help out and that’s a great piece of content that I could get to.

Mike: Yep. Yep. That’s gonna be exactly, It’s gonna be a great kind of on ramp to something like Big Leaner, stronger thinni. Leaner stronger. Because again, take a 60 year old man or woman, and let’s say they’re quite overweight and have never trained their muscles before. You can’t just necessarily tell them to go in the gym and start dead lifting heavy weight.

They need to start somewhere less challenging. And so this book is gonna be able to bridge that gap. It’s gonna have a beginner program, it’s gonna have an intermediate program and an advanced program. And I would say anyone who has been on the advanced program for some time would be a perfect candidate for bigger, lean, stronger, or thinner.

Leaner, stronger. If they want to take it even further. Many people, they won’t want to and they won’t need to. It just depends on where they’re at. Like again, this book is gonna be, it’s gonna give them all they need to go from that being that 60 year old overweight outta shape person. To low body fat percentage, as low as, he doesn’t have to be super low, but let’s say it’s a 60 year old guy who can maintain 15% body fat.

He could be thrilled, and gain a bunch of muscle, gain a bunch of strength, drastically reduce his risk of all types of disease and dysfunction, feel and look better maybe than he ever has. Maybe, to rival his college days, basically. And so a lot of people are gonna be like, Shit, I’m super happy with this.

I’m just gonna keep doing this. Or maybe I want to do some, I wanna switch and start doing some fitness classes or whatever. And that’s totally cool. But for the people who want to. Get even more into weight lifting and really try to strive for that last, let’s say last 40% or so, 30 or 40% of what is genetically available to them, then they could move on to the more advanced stuff.

So I’m pretty excited about it. I think it’s gonna be my most popular book yet, but we’ll see. 

Andrew: Yeah, and to add 10 quality years on your life is just. It’s unbelievable. And right now I think you just had Max on the podcast and he’s, he wrote the Genius Life and he talks about food quality and different things like that.

So to pair those things, those whole foods, those healthy foods with kind of the program that you’re talking about, to get people to move, to be active, to improve their fitness, to add on those extra years of really good quality years. That’s huge. That’s massive. 

Mike: Yes, sir. That’s the plan. So next summer.

Next summer, everybody, that’s the current plan. I’m on track to deliver the manuscript by May, which is what they requested. If we’re gonna do a summer launch, they need about a year to go from completed manuscript to launch, and I’m on track for that. So barring any, random. Events, . That should be the release date.

Andrew: Hey, I was gonna ask you, what are you most proud of with what you’ve done with Legion and kind of the books you’ve written with bigger, leaner, stronger, thinner, lean, stronger, all the content that you put out, What’s maybe something that you’re most proud of? 

Mike: I, what immediately comes to mind is actually stuff like this, like seeing firsthand with people, how big of a difference it can make.

That’s gotta be up there at the top. And then I would say, Right beneath that would probably be just having sold a lot of books and that, that might sound silly, but the reason being, the reason is researching and writing is the work that I enjoy the most. And like marketing as well, but a lot of what I enjoy about marketing is copywriting.

So it comes back to writing and, or even if it’s a video, but still, I I wrote a script for it, and so that’s something that I could see myself. Doing for the rest of my life. Cause I just really enjoy it and because I do really enjoy it. I personally am, maybe proud is the word, maybe satisfied is the word.

I just think that it’s like a goal. I’ve accomplished a goal, so I’ve sold. I don’t know, over one and a half million books now, and that’s rare in any genre, but in fitness, there’s only probably a handful of people who have sold that many books in fitness. Now you get into health and diet, of course you have multi multimillion copy bestsellers, but fitness is a smaller niche, right?

You have starting Strength is done very well. You have Arnold’s encyclopedia has done very well. You have Frederick Del Levier stuff. That’s you. You have Body for Life sold millions of copies. So you do have some big sellers out there, but. So as a writer, that’s pretty fulfilling as well. And I think that if I just keep going and doing what I’m doing, I could probably come out the other end of this as the best selling fitness author of all time.

And. I don’t know. That to me is, again, it’s satisfying because I enjoy writing and if I’m gonna do something, I wanna do it well. 

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. You’re a great communicator and the books continue to get better. 2.0, 3.0 and just the content that you put across. One thing that is I think the most important at being effective is just being a good communicator.

And you did an awesome job of that through the book. So I want to get Sal, Adam, and Justin and you in the same room at some point man. That would be great. And hopefully you guys will have a live event coming up where you guys are able to get together. And I know you guys were gonna try to do something at the Arnold.

Mike: Quite work out. But yeah, actually, and I liked Sal know on that, that I said, Hey, because Legion was gonna, we were gonna have a whole booth. We were gonna do a whole thing at the Arnold. And of course that got canceled. And so then the only thing that I had was this event with them and I said, Hey, if it’s an issue, like I can come.

But I just let them know saying, Hey, I’m not planning on coming for any of the other things that I was gonna do. If it’s a problem, if this is something that was, you were pitching and this is part of the reason why people are coming to the event, then I’ll fly up for it. And Sal said, Nah.

He said, That’s not a big deal. We’ll do it on the next one. 

Andrew: You guys are all great. It’s just like you’re. Preaching the right message for fitness longevity and I was able to have dinner with them on that Friday night there. And they’re just so authentic exactly how they are on their podcast.

And you guys all do a great job just to preach the right message on fitness for long term sustainable results. So it just, it’s really appreciated everything that you guys do. 

Mike: Thanks brother. Appreciate it. Lots more good things to come. Yeah, man. 

Andrew: Absolutely. Looking forward to it. 

Mike: Okay. Thanks again for taking the time to do this.

Yep, thanks. All right. That’s it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it and found it interesting and helpful. And if you did, and you don’t mind doing me a favor, please do leave a quick review on iTunes or. Wherever you’re listening to me from in whichever app you’re listening to me in, because that not only convinces people that they should check out the show, it also increases search visibility and thus it helps more people find their way to me and learn how to get fitter, leaner, stronger.

Healthier and happier as well. And of course, if you want to be notified when the next episode goes live, then simply subscribe to the podcast and you won’t miss out on any new stuff. And if you didn’t like something about the show, please do shoot me an email. At [email protected], just Muscle or life.com, and share your thoughts on how I can do this better.

I read everything myself and I’m always looking for constructive feedback. Even if it is criticism, I’m open to it, and of course you can email me. If you have positive feedback as well, or if you have questions really relating to anything that you think I could help you with, definitely send me an email.

That is the best way to get a hold of me, Mike, at multiple life.com. And that’s it. Thanks again for listening to this episode, and I hope to hear from you soon.