Ep. #166: How “Artificial Estrogens” Are Suppressing Your Testosterone Levels

Dr. Anthony Jay: [00:00:00] It’s amazing how much atrazine, we use millions and millions of pounds of atrazine also, and that’s a completely estrogenic chemical, and that’s illegal in Europe. So they don’t allow any in the drinking water over in Europe, nothing on the crops. Over here, we got these upper limits in our water supply that I think are outrageous.

Mike Matthews: Hey, it’s Mike, and welcome to yet another episode of the podcast. you In this episode, I interview author and researcher Dr. Anthony Jay about a topic that isn’t discussed very much in the fitness space at least, and which should be, and that’s how estrogen like chemicals that we are exposed to every day, all of us, can be harmful.

Can lower our testosterone levels and raise our estrogen levels. The reason why I wanted to have this discussion is most testosterone talk revolves around using diet or exercise or supplements or even [00:01:00] drugs to simply boost testosterone production or just boost testosterone levels. And while that is one way To do it, you can do and take things to enhance your body’s natural testosterone production, or just introduce it exogenously and thereby raise your testosterone levels.

There’s also the other side of the coin, which is removing impediments to your natural testosterone production, including these estrogen mimicking chemicals. Which can be quite powerful as you will learn about in this episode. You’re also going to learn about how phytoestrogens and mycoestrogens that are present in certain plant foods can interfere with your hormones.

You’re going to learn why an imbalance in sex hormones can promote weight gain. You’re going to hear about a nasty little trick that companies use to make you think that their plastics are free of estrogen mimicking chemicals when they’re not. You’re going to learn five things that you can do right now [00:02:00] to dramatically reduce your exposure to these chemicals and see market improvements in your hormone profile as a result.

And much more. This is where I would normally plug a sponsor to pay the bills. But, I’m not big on promoting stuff that I don’t personally use and believe in, so instead I’m just going to quickly tell you about something of mine. Specifically, my fitness book for women, Thinner, Leaner, Stronger. Now, this book has sold over 150, 000 copies in the last several years, and it has helped thousands of women build their best bodies ever.

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All right. That’s it for the shameless plugging. Let’s get to the show. [00:04:00] Anthony, welcome to the show. Thank you for being so patient and rescheduling with me over and over as my life was tumbling around. Oh, thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. I’m excited to talk to you because, we’re going to be talking about testosterone, which is a super red hot subject these days.

Testosterone boosters are selling more than ever. Testosterone replacement therapy is more popular than ever. I get asked about testosterone all the time. I’ve heard written quite a bit about it. I’ve also recorded now some podcast content specifically on it, but I haven’t spoken about what you’re going to dive into, which is, most people when they’re thinking about testosterone, most guys, if they’re concerned about it at all, their question is how do I boost my testosterone?

What can I take, whether it’s natural or not, that’s going to raise my testosterone, but they don’t usually give much thought to the other side of that coin, which is taking the other foot off the brake. So they’re like, how can I go faster? And that they don’t realize is that there are environmental factors that are going to [00:05:00] lower their baseline.

Dr. Anthony Jay: So yeah, there’s more than people think, I talked to, I address this topic all the time and people sometimes accuse me of being like over the top or fear mongering or whatever. Yeah. Like they’re making the frogs gay or something. This is just the science. Some of these are more well known than others and a lot of people are recognizing that.

Yeah. BPA, for example, that I should be avoiding BPA, but they don’t even know the whole story on that. So it’s a good timing too, because there’s that doc. Did you see that documentary? It’s called Icarus. 

Mike Matthews: I haven’t, but it’s been recommended to me by multiple people many times. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. I just started it.

It looks really good. It’s interesting. It’s a, it’s basically about a guy who’s, Using testosterone. He’s got his foot on the gas pedal like you’re talking about. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: It’s another example of that It’d be interesting to see, to do a documentary on this which, you know, like lowering your lowering your artificial estrogen exposures and therefore raising your testosterone more naturally.

Yeah, absolutely. So let’s 

Mike Matthews: just start at the top. So people know what type of [00:06:00] chemicals we’re even talking about. So you mentioned artificial estrogens, what does that mean exactly? And how are we exposed to them and 

Dr. Anthony Jay: why I use the word estrogenics? Frequently and artificial estrogens. And they both mean the same thing.

They mean anything that acts like estrogen in your body, anything that binds to your estrogen receptor. So just like testosterone, just like any hormone, you’ve got receptors for estrogen. And sometimes I like to use the example of leptin. And bear with me for a second, I’ll circle back to estrogen and testosterone, but like when you eat food, your fat cells secrete leptin, it’s a hormone, and that’s one of the reasons fat is considered an endocrine organ, because it secretes hormones.

And so it secretes leptin, and that goes throughout your body, and most cells don’t have leptin receptors. So it just goes in and goes out. It goes into your muscles, it goes out, but your brain has leptin receptors. So when leptin gets to your brain, it signals, it binds those receptors and tells your brain that you’re full, you should stop eating.[00:07:00] 

And, estrogen is the same way. You’ve got receptors in your brain. When you have estrogen in your body, it’s going throughout your blood, it gets in your brain, it binds those receptors and acts on your brain. But, and it’s involved in male motivation, for example, in lab studies. But also it’s in all kinds of other cells throughout your body, tissues, it’s in the muscles, it’s in the, liver, it’s in the fat cells, it’s all over the place.

That’s the difference between leptin and estrogen and testosterone. So estrogen and testosterone, just ubiquitous throughout your body. Let’s get specific on these chemicals. What are some of them? So I put together a top 10 list for my book to just simplify it. There’s a few more than 10, but I just combined different categories.

For example, phytoestrogens is one category. So that’s just estrogens that plants hormones that plants secrete that act like estrogen in our body. Obviously the big one there, soy, everybody knows about soy, right? And there’s some conflicting research on that or supposedly conflicting research.

There seems 

Mike Matthews: to be a genetic component, right? Some people respond differently [00:08:00] to them than others. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Definitely. Yeah. And there’s a dose component. There’s a lot of, it’s complicated with soy because obviously your gut bacteria play a role too. What I like about the Fido estrogens compared to the, a lot of the other ones is our ancestors have seen those chemicals.

Our gut bacteria have seen those chemicals, whereas BPA. Our gut bacteria have never seen that, parabens, our gut bacteria, these are all completely artificial. So at least with soy, you stand a fighting chance, although I definitely don’t recommend it. And I actually have a YouTube channel, and I did a video on soy alpha and beta estrogen receptors.

There’s arguments that you hear vegans make. And if you really want to get into the weeds, you can just watch my youtube video on that topic because how 

Mike Matthews: can people find it? 

Dr. Anthony Jay: It’s called chagrin and tonic just like the series of my book. So think of gin and tonic chagrin like oh what’s going what the hell is going on?

Chagrin like c h a g r i n chagrin and tonic. Okay, good. So that’s the channel on youtube and then Like I say, with the soy [00:09:00] specifically, there’s this idea that when you eat soy, yeah, it’s got estrogen. Everybody admits that. Everybody knows that. You can’t hide that fact. The idea that the vegans are proposing, and it’s an interesting idea.

I looked into it. It sounds really good. The idea is that the soy estrogen goes throughout your body and it only binds estrogen. Alpha estrogen receptors. You have two different types of estrogen receptors. You have alpha and beta and soy only binds alpha and that’s involved in a lot of health benefits.

Whereas, it doesn’t bind to beta. The problem is the study that shows that it does show that in one figure and figure one, it binds alpha receptor, but then they did a totally different experiment with different. They did the same experiment with totally different cells. And they found it binds the beta receptor more in the exact same paper.

Mike Matthews: That’s just conveniently ignored inconvenient truth. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: So anyway, like I say, it’s a little bit of the weeds there, people need to know how, because there is, there are a lot of legitimate scientists, pushing soy. I think there’s a lot [00:10:00] of industry money behind it. There’s a lot of, emotional attachment to it.

Anyway, long, long story short, I avoid soy. I recommend people do, but your gut bacteria, you can’t break some of it down. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, I’ve had the same position on it where it’s like, why? Why do you have so many other choices for protein? And even if you want to stick to plant based proteins, you have so many other choices.

It’s just not necessary to have soy. Okay. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. And another one on the list that a lot of people don’t actually know about is mycoestrogen. And again, it’s somewhat natural. Our bodies have seen it. It’s toxic. It’s bad. It’s an estrogen. And it’s actually, so myco means mold. So molds literally secrete an estrogen chemical.

And it throws off our natural estrogen and causes infertility, depression, a lot of these mold symptoms fat storage, low testosterone, the whole thing. These are all common health issues with all of these artificial estrogens. 

Mike Matthews: And how would we be exposed to this? Like mold that, would grow in your house that you wouldn’t 

Dr. Anthony Jay: be aware of?

That’s the source for sure. But I think most Americans don’t [00:11:00] realize how how high the mold is in a lot of our grains and a lot of our foods in America mostly the grains, pretty much exclusively. And a good indicator of that is our regulation is terrible compared to Europe.

You can look at Europe and they have such strict limits on mold, estrogen specifically, not just mold. Toxins, because there’s a number of toxins, there’s aflatoxin, there’s ochratoxin, there’s all these different mold toxins, but mycoestrogen is one of, it’s called zerolinone. That’s the actual name of the mold estrogen.

And the U. S., you look at Europe, they regulate zerolinone, the mold estrogen. U. S. has absolutely no regulation that there is no, restriction, no, no upper limit or anything. So when Europe, when the Europeans have a high level of mycoestrogen in their grains, Guess what they do? Ship it over here.

And in fact, they even have regulations for their animal feed. So if their cow, if their corn for their cows has too much mold estrogen, ship it over to America, put it in the human food, because that’s perfectly legal and they do that. Because we don’t eat [00:12:00] anything. Yeah, it’s all processed.

You can’t taste it anyway. They got so much salt and all this other stuff in there. Salt, fat, and sugar. Yeah, it’s a frustrating thing. Can’t believe how, the more you dig into this, one of my chapters in my book was comparing Europe versus America in terms of regulation with all of these artificial estrogens, BPA, parabens, phthalates, red number 40, that’s artificial red food coloring.

Atrazine is one of them on my top 10 list. Atrazine is a herbicide. It’s number two used herbicide in America. We use glyphosate. Number one, 

Mike Matthews: trance and stuff like that. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah, no it’s a bigger concern that people realize because I think, the lignans, this idea. That lignans are inflammatory is really interesting and a unique approach.

It’s Dr. Gundry, I think his name is, with the plant paradox. He’s out there telling everybody about lignans and there’s a lot of truth to that and I’m still learning about that myself, but but the estrogens are really well established scientists, have been showing [00:13:00] this for years now with the grains that, yeah, there’s mold estrogen.

There’s these herbicides that act like estrogen and, and then you add soy, which, of course, has estrogen. So you’re getting it, you’re getting it from a lot of different angles. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. And you had mentioned a BPA, you had mentioned phthalates. Can you explain quickly what those are and how we’re exposed to those?

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah, for sure. So BPA is actually a plastic ingredient. So people make plastic out of it. It’s bisphenol A. The federal government really has done nothing to regulate BPA. They haven’t made it, they have. They’ve done a little bit, but they haven’t made it illegal. I think they need to make it illegal, but they haven’t.

And 17 states have come out and made it illegal in children’s products, at least, because it acts like estrogen. It causes a whole host of problems. Again, fat gains, depression, lower testosterone, BPA. Should be illegal. States have made it illegal. But what happens when states make BPA illegal is companies come out and they make a chemical called bisphenol [00:14:00] S, BPS.

And the crazy thing is BPS acts at least as estrogenic in our bodies, at least as much as BPA. That’s obviously a concern because you can have a label that says BPA free. On a plastic bottle, but it can still have BPS. Yeah, 

Mike Matthews: it’s bullshit. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: So yeah, it can have the same health problems. You have to be real smart about that.

And obviously the solution is pretty simple. You can go with stainless steel glass, things. If you have solid foods, if you’ve got, I don’t know, meats and things like that, plastic is fine. You can put them in plastic, but when you start storing liquids in these BPAs BPA plastics, it leaches.

There’s just no question. In fact, there was a study they did with coffee and they compared decaf versus regular coffee They just poured hot coffee into BPA mugs Because it’s amazing how many mugs people are drinking out of every day that are made up from BPA plastic. 20 percent more BPA transferred into the caffeinated coffee.

Just because there’s [00:15:00] different molecular properties with having caffeine that pulls the BPA out, it causes more leaching. So There’s kind of an argument to be made to be more cautious with like juice, or, oils in plastics, if you’re storing oil in BPA plastic, that’s a bigger health problem, and scientists like me, to be frank, we haven’t been picking that up, we haven’t, we’ve been doing experiments saying, oh, fats are bad, look at this study, fats are causing these health problems, but in reality, What are they storing the fats in?

These big plastic five gallon buckets or plastic, bags or whatever. They’re storing these fats and it might 

Mike Matthews: be completely different if they were to store them differently 

Dr. Anthony Jay: in glass, right? And I think that those studies need to be done. They’re confusing a lot of people. And there’s been some studies that have been done with, with some of these estrogens for example, atrazine, I mentioned that, I’ll come back to BPA in a second, but I want to throw this study at you, Mike, you’re going to appreciate this, so they gave mice, they had two separate groups of rats, excuse me, two separate groups of rats, And one group, they fed [00:16:00] them exactly the same, exact same exercise, everything exactly the same, except one group, they gave low dose atrazine in their drinking water, and the other group just had pure drinking water.

And the reason I emphasize low dose is because a lot of people in farm, in the Midwest, in farm country, were drinking atrazine low dose. So this is a relevant experiment and they found the rats with low dose atrazine got fat compared to the other group, which were normal, even though the calories were the same.

Obviously that’s a huge problem. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah, and that’s, that comes down to, if you want to touch on the mechanisms you can, but and we know that higher estrogen levels and lower testosterone levels is just associated with higher body fat levels. Yeah. So it’s not 

Dr. Anthony Jay: surprising it’s through a protein called P par gamma estrogen activates.

Yeah, you get it from both directions, right? You get it from the lowering testosterone and you get it from the increasing estrogen. And of course, when women are pregnant, their estrogen goes way up. And what happens when you’re taking all [00:17:00] these estrogen chemicals into your body is that you’re essentially imitating pregnancy.

You’re telling your body that you’re pregnant. You’re confusing the signaling. And so your body has to say let’s store some fat, because that’s natural. That’s what mother, pregnant mothers do, because, our ancestors maybe didn’t have access to all the food that we have today.

So that emergency store of fat for that baby, it had to be there 

Mike Matthews: also to protect it, right? Because of the way it’s usually down in the abdomen. Just to protect against physical shocks and blows and so forth. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: It’s a great point. Yeah. Yeah. And the heat, like it helps to regulate temperature.

There’s a lot of benefits. Like I don’t have a problem with fat itself, but especially for pregnant women is, the healthy levels of all this, but yeah, you definitely don’t want to be telling your body that you’re pregnant when you’re a 40 year old male or whatever. 

Mike Matthews: Go through your own strange version of what do they call it?

Manipause. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah, Andrew paws. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me give you a number two because a lot of times women hear this stuff that I talk about and they say thank goodness. [00:18:00] I’m not, it doesn’t affect me. And of course, number one, as I’m sure women have low chronically low testosterone problems to in our country, but also men have about 20 nanograms per liter of estrogen.

It’s about 20 and women actually have about 20 nanograms per liter up to 400 depending on the time of the month. They obviously have a range depending on the time of the month, but 20 to 400, it’s not that different. But when you start talking about these artificial estrogen chemicals, and again, I list all the science in my book and I put these numbers down because they’re really astounding.

The numbers for the artificial estrogens we’re ingesting are just incredible. A good example specifically is cows where they feed them corn on these feedlots. They’ve tested the blood from cows on these feedlots and found 700, 000 nanograms per liter of atrazine in their blood. So again, compare that to 20 nanograms per liter of natural estrogen, and obviously you’re going to have a huge Physiological [00:19:00] negative effect.

How does 

Mike Matthews: that play out for, let’s say, the average person that has your standard American diet and which would include food and beverages and then also including environmental factors and so forth. Have you seen any research or do you know, just based on all of the research that you have gone through, practically speaking, what is, what does that mean?

In terms of increasing estrogen levels or, mimicking what levels are we looking 

Dr. Anthony Jay: at? I think the easiest way to see it. It’s to see, look at this health problem and see it in our population is to look at number one, obesity obviously just continues to rise, but people will say that’s so it’s so complex and there’s multi, it’s multifactorial.

There’s all kinds of different factors. And that’s true. But let’s switch. If you switch over and look at puberty, that just continues to, the age for puberty just keeps dropping. And in my book, I have some quotes from different doctors. For medical journals and they’re trying to redefine the normal age [00:20:00] range of puberty.

Because it’s so common now to find eight year olds and things like this with puberty, the going into puberty, especially women, especially girls. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah, especially girls. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: That’s a good indicator that, we’re being exposed to too much artificial estrogen. It’s really, the science is crystal clear. You give yourself, you expose yourself to these things and you get increasing health problems.

Another one is breast cancer. Breast cancer is up 250 percent since 1980. There’s a lot of awareness. People are raising awareness, the pink ribbons, the football games, the whole thing. But, let’s be honest. How many people are out there saying, Look, we need to avoid artificial estrogens.

It’s increasing breast cancer. Rather than just raising the awareness. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah, or convincing more women to get screened more frequently or whatever. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. Which is 

Mike Matthews: fine. But I agree that you bring up a good point. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah, I think it’s a lot more fundamental to get to the root cause and say let’s stop drinking out of BPA.

And I forgot about phthalates for a while. So I should probably circle back to that. And phthalates are, again, found in plastics. But they’re not a plastic ingredient. They’re more [00:21:00] of like a plastic additive, like a stabilizer. They change the properties of plastic to make them more appealing or more flexible or whatever.

That’s the problem with phthalates. They act estrogen too. So even with the BPA free, when they don’t switch to BPS, like we were talking about before, you find that the darn phthalates in a lot of the plastics. And I have a little guide at the end of my book. It’s, you can really usually plastic number two, number four and number five in those little recycling symbols.

Those are almost always pretty safe. They’re pretty safe. Sometimes companies put phthalates into those. It’s really rare. I’d say about 15%. I have some studies that show about 15 percent of the time they have phthalates, but the worst one is plastic number one. And, you look on the bottom of your I don’t know your juice containers or whatever, and you’ll see it.

It’s in. I just 

Mike Matthews: looked at the bottom of my water jug that I fill up every day. Plastic one. Yeah. Fucker. You’re going in the trash. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. I’m sorry to say, but like plastic number one is polyethylene tera phthalate and it’s got a lot of phthalates and again, it depends on the liquid that you have in [00:22:00] it and how long it’s in it and how hot it is.

Those are the three factors for how much Phthalate or BPA leaching you’re going to get. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: And obviously if you pour hot coffee into something, you’re going to get a lot more leaching. And it’s the molecules are moving. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. This, in this case, it’s just it’s filtered water.

It’s RO water, but I’m still just gonna not use it anymore. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. I use, stainless is the best and, silicone is good for baby bottles or whatever. Yeah. A lot of companies are going there now, which is great. Obviously glass is good, but super inconvenient. Yeah. Little change, like little changes.

So let’s 

Mike Matthews: get to that then. What are some, I’m sure a lot of people that are listening are now like, Oh, what can I do? What, how am I, how do I reduce my exposure to these chemicals? Maybe also, are there any changes that we can make or any supplements we can take or anything that would help our bodies better deal with?

Because obviously we can’t reduce our exposure to zero. It’s just not possible. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. And our body’s pretty good at clearing some of these things, but I have a whole bunch of suggestions. [00:23:00] Obviously the first one I think is what’s the lowest hanging fruit? 

Mike Matthews: What’s the 20 percent that gives you the 80 percent of reduction?

Dr. Anthony Jay: For starters, filter your water. A lot of people don’t even filter it. They’re drinking it out of the sink. 

Mike Matthews: Yep. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: And birth control is on my top 10 list athenal estradiol, that’s an artificial estrogen. It’s amazing how much it is in the water supplies. It’s not so much in the Midwest, but it is in the cities, the bigger cities, the populated areas, people urinate it out.

It comes back through. We don’t filter it out. We’re good at killing viruses, killing bacteria with all these chemicals, but we’re not good at removing these artificial estrogens, especially birth control. So you’ve got to filter your water. Because again, and what kind of 

Mike Matthews: filtration? Because obviously, could you talking about a Brita?

Are we talking about something more industrial? 

Dr. Anthony Jay: No, anything with activated charcoal. So most of the, most of them have activated charcoal. You can double check with yours, but sometimes they just call it charcoal. But what they mean is activated charcoal. And what that does from a chemist perspective is it binds lipids.

Binds. [00:24:00] Hormones, it binds anything that’s hydrophobic. So these, hormones like testosterone, they’re like they’re like oils, they float on water. So a lot of people don’t realize that they, our blood is like water. So when you have testosterone or estrogen or artificial estrogen, They can’t just go into your blood, they have to travel with this hormone with this protein called sex hormone binding globulin, SHBG, which I call it the limo service of hormones, right?

The sex hormones, because, so you can have, but here’s the thing, here’s the caveat, so yeah it’s traveling on SHBG in the limo, the estrogen and testosterone, the artificial estrogen, but the caveat is that, Some of it, there’s a low level that can just go into the water, without HBG, that’s free testosterone, free estrogen, whatever, free artificial estrogen.

And that’s what happens. You get some of it, a certain amount that’s in the water supply. That’s in the water supply. It can just bind all kinds of different proteins and get transported into your drinking water. But yeah, but the beauty of. Activated charcoal is those are the kind of molecules that it grabs it [00:25:00] doesn’t grab charge molecules A lot of people say that they say that activated charcoal binds, I don’t know like all these different charges They say it’s positive.

So it binds negative charges or vice versa in reality. It doesn’t it binds hydrophobic molecules so that means no charge that means things that float on water and Estrogen and testosterone all these hormones that are in the water. The artificial estrogen hormones you That’s perfect. So that’s simple.

It’s I went a little bit long for that explanation. Yeah, no, it’s good to know. 

Mike Matthews: So that, you don’t have to, you don’t have to get a, an expensive filter per se. It just needs to be one with activated charcoal. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: And one mistake I do see is a lot of people filter their water and then they put it in plastic.

Yeah, like me. Especially in the hot cars and things like that. Again, it’s inevitable. Like you said, and it is true. We do get estrogens, from different sources. You can’t be crazy about this. It is everywhere. That’s 1 of the difficulties when we study it is because everybody has it.

Everybody has Thalates right now. So when you try and find a group and there are studies they’ve got studies where they go up to like Northern [00:26:00] Alaska and looked at native tribes and compared them to people in the U. S. with breast cancer and some of these other things, because you can’t find groups of people here that don’t have thalates.

But the, so the best thing you can do is minimize. And you just want to think what’s the easiest thing? Like you said, low hanging fruit. Let’s filter the water. And then just put it in glass or put it in stainless if you’re carting it around, biking, the grains that are not organic, you want to avoid those, they’ve got atrazine on them, they’re spraying atrazine.

So if you’re going to eat grains, eat the organic ones. And they’ve also shown that organic grains have less mold. So you’re a win there because less atrazine, which is estrogen, less mycoestrogen from the mold, which is estrogen. So that’s a good easy one to do. It’s a little bit tedious, a little bit expensive sometimes, but 

Mike Matthews: yeah, it depends on what grains.

If it’s food, you’re preparing yourself in some, you’ve there’s yeah. When exactly there’s, I’ve written a bit about There’s obviously research on it’s not necessarily as expensive as people think to at least get the key foods keep those organic and then [00:27:00] just go conventional on ones that are less likely to be as contaminated.

Dr. Anthony Jay: And the other one we haven’t even mentioned yet was the Personal care product. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna, I was waiting for you to bring that up. Yeah, because it’s again, it’s low hanging fruit and it’s amazing to me how many people are rubbing parabens on their entire body. Your skin is, huge surface area, largest organ in your body, unless you’re super obese, which in which case fat is the largest organ in your body.

But, Most people’s skin is the largest organ and they’re rubbing parabens all over it every day, which is crazy to me. And you think, oh, I’m washing it off in the shower. Do you smell it? Do you smell the fragrance? It stays on your skin. It prefers your skin. It’s hydrophobic. It’s afraid of water.

Mike Matthews: Can you quickly just summarize what parabens are? 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah parabens are just a chemical that they’re used in fragrances. They actually carry the fragrance a little bit farther. Across the room. To be honest, they’re just cheap filler. It’s just a, another petroleum product. That’s just cheap.

So that’s why they put it in there. Yeah, it just enhances fragrance. Yeah, there’s a little bit of a benefit in terms [00:28:00] of some of the characteristics. These people, in these industries are looking for, but. At the end of the day, it acts like estrogen in your body. It goes through your skin, which again, people 

Mike Matthews: remember, like if, for example, one for, if you’re taking testosterone, you can get testosterone creams.

They don’t, it doesn’t need to be injectable. It’s like you’re saying things go on your skin, they get absorbed and now they’re in your blood. And from there it goes all over your body. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. And it’s amazing how much parabens are in our water supply. Also a good evidence of that. Obviously we’re washing some of it down the drain.

Evidence for that is they did a study where they looked at polar bears in northern Alaska. They had 11 polar bears, I think, in the study, at least 10. And every single one of them had high levels of parabens in their fat. They’ve looked at whales, they’ve looked at dolphins. All of these animals have parabens because it’s working up the food chain now.

And it’s causing infertility in a lot of these animals. That are already struggling and obviously we see infertility rising like crazy in human populations as well it’s a problem. [00:29:00] You don’t want to be messing with your hormones. These are nanograms per liter That’s 10 to the minus 9th grams, you know in a single liter.

That’s a lot of fluid Yeah. And a tiny, it’s a tiny amount. So I don’t know. Again, it’s pretty easy to look at, to find products that say paraben free. It’s not like a huge inconvenience. People make it out oh, this is this is so inconveniencing me. But and I do, and it is expensive sometimes.

I, on my, I was gonna 

Mike Matthews: say they’re probably a bit more expensive in general. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. On my website I have a. I have some personal care product suggestions at ajconsultingcompany. com and I don’t make any money from those. I just tell people, hey, here’s what I use. That’s why, so it’s ajconsultingcompany.

com slash what I use, like one word. If I don’t say that, then people ask, people will send me emails after the show here. Yeah. They’ll say, what personal care products do you use? I’ll get a hundred of them. I don’t go through every brand and say, this one and that one, I just say, here’s what I use.

If you want to use that. That’s how I 

Mike Matthews: started with supplements. It was exactly like here’s what I’m using. I even say, I’d be like these, I’m not all that excited about these products. [00:30:00] Honestly, I think they’re better than nothing. So that’s why I’m using them. And that’s what led me to create my own stuff was eventually I was like, all right, I just need to make the products that I wish somebody else would make basically.

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. Yeah. Then the other one with the personal care is sunscreen. Because, it’s amazing how much I think we overuse sunscreen and a lot and I’m okay with I need sunscreen. I’m super white. I go fishing all the time on the ocean. Where you just get fried. So sunscreen is great.

But some parents, I have kids. We go to the swimming pool for 20 minutes and parents are just slapping on sunscreen and that’s fine. It’s okay. But I think vitamin D is good. It’s good to get some 20 minutes of sun. But the sunscreen ingredients. If you look on your list of ingredients on the sunscreen and it’s got Benzaphenone or 4 methylbenzaline camphor.

Scientists call it 4 MBC. Benzaphenone and 4 MBC are both estrogenic. They both act like estrogen in your body. And by the way, again, illegal in Europe. So that should tell you something. That should, it’s crazy to me that they’re putting them in the sunscreens. It’s of course [00:31:00] cheaper. And the ideal sunscreen for, for people is zinc, just anything with zinc without those chemicals is great blocks the sun better than anything it’s natural.

If you absorb some zinc, no big deal. That’s going to be healthy. So how can 

Mike Matthews: you measure or can you measure okay, so someone’s listening and they’re wondering. How many of these chemicals do I have in my body? How is this impacting me? What might happen if I were to reduce my exposure?

What would you say to that person wondering those things? 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. Unfortunately there’s not like a mass produced, BPA urine test or something like that. You can take biopsies and do all these invasive things that scientists do, but. That’s going to cost a lot. It’s really invasive.

It’s really troublesome. For the most part, the easiest way to measure your artificial estrogen exposure, to track it, is to track your testosterone. Get rid of the parabens, get rid of the phthalates, the whole thing, and measure your testosterone before you do that, and hopefully you’ve already done that at some point in your life, but then, and then measure it after, and you’ll see your testosterone raise.

It’s amazing. Men [00:32:00] and women, it will raise. That’s 

Mike Matthews: great. And for getting your testosterone checked there are, I believe there are some online services for this that are less expensive. Like it doesn’t necessarily cost a couple thousand dollars to get that done. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Especially I think it’s it was like 380 last time I did it without the insurance company.

Mike Matthews: Okay. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: But usually if you tell them you’ve got some symptoms of low estrogen, which a lot of people do because most people are low, the insurance will cover it. Low 

Mike Matthews: estrogen or low testosterone? I’m sorry. Low testosterone. Okay. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Okay. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. It’s actually, I’ve never had my hormones checked. I did a, I got whole life insurance recently, so I had to do, it’s just a full panel of checking how all your organs are working and stuff, but it didn’t include hormones.

And I actually asked if they could include it, but they recommended The, I didn’t do that because everything looked perfect and that saves you a lot of money. And they were saying, if anything were, even if, they’re basically what the person is telling me is, and this was nice of them to say this, that, they’re looking for even the a wing of a fly in [00:33:00] the soup so they can charge you more money.

So if I also, cause I was asking initially, Hey, can you throw in hormones and like vitamins? And essential vitamins, minerals, everything. I’m just curious. And and then, so I didn’t for that reason, just because they’re like, nah, this looks perfect, dude. Just go with this and your premiums are going to be like 30 percent lower.

I’m like, all right, cool. And then I had someone here at the office looking into, oh, I was just, it’s Just stoked my curiosity. And what he had come back with was, it was going to be like 3, 000 in my hormones checked. I was like, what? No, like that’s not worth it. I’m just curious. I have no particular reason.

Dr. Anthony Jay: Especially because yours are probably optimized. A lot of people like they come in with these abysmally low numbers. When we first were able to measure testosterone in the 1940s or twenties or somewhere in there the average male was about 800. And we’re literally the average nowadays is but average 20 to 30 year old male is about 400 to say about half that now.

Yeah. And so there’s obviously some problems there in terms of just our exercise or diet, nutrient [00:34:00] deficiencies. Estrogen exposures. These things are all compounding that issue. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah, 

Dr. Anthony Jay: probably sleep insufficiency as well. That’s just more 

Mike Matthews: of a thing these days. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: And the crazy thing about artificial estrogen is they lower not only your total testosterone, but they lower the free testosterone by increasing SHBG.

They have more of that limo. Your body makes more of that limo. And it grabs out more of the testosterone. So it’s not even available for your body to use. It’s driving in the limo, 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. And just to clarify that for everybody, you have testosterone. Most of the testosterone your body produces binds to the protein.

The SHBG protein is not available for yourselves to use. It’s the free testosterone that does all of the cool stuff in the body basically. Yeah. And that lowers with artificial estrogen exposure. Yeah. Yeah. Why the big discrepancy on these types of things between Europe and America? I think it’s in also in foods.

It’s just, these are such fundamental aspects of health. Yeah. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: There’s also a big discrepancy, ironically, In our health, in terms of American and [00:35:00] European health, which kind of should tell you something, but I think that like I wrote a chapter about this in my book is called Astro generation.

And because we haven’t even talked about epigenetics, but I think that’s the most compelling argument to avoid artificial estrogen but 1st, I wrote a chapter about, like I said, Europe, America, and some of the politics as to why this stuff is even legal. And honestly, I didn’t think it was going to even be accepted as part of the book because I figured my editors would say this is off topic, right?

It’s not really about estrogen. It’s about politics. Most of them actually said that was their favorite chapter. I’m sure that was like their burning question, right? What the fuck is going on? It’s a good question. Yeah. And especially as a scientist, like I can give you crazy examples. For example, when I publish a paper.

I do scientific research, and I go to these journals, like JBC, Journal of Biological Chemistry, or whatever, medical journals, scientific journals. I actually tell them who should review my paper. I have to select five reviewers. That’s part of the online application. [00:36:00] I select the reviewers for my own research papers.

That’s what everybody does. So is that immune to politics? Obviously not, we’re so there’s bias within a lot of these studies, especially in terms of when you’re talking about diet and exercise and foods and when there’s huge corporations funding some of these studies. But the biggest problem I think is the corporate influence on our politicians in America.

And I think most people recognize that happens and that exists, but that’s where most of this originates. And that’s just good old fashioned corruption. I think so. Yeah. For example, there’s a woman at a PhD at New York University, NYU, and she she looked at 168 studies scientific, PubMed studies that were, funded by corporations and 156 of those 168.

Found favorable results towards their products that they were selling. Yeah, of course. That kind of, that says it all. It’s basically when you have these corporate influences, you’re gonna It’s like the shotgun 

Mike Matthews: approach, right? I’m sure we can find something positive in this data.

All [00:37:00] right. Let’s cool. We got that. Who cares about all the rest? Let’s run with it. And that with soy, like crazy, especially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it’s unfortunate, but again, this is something I’ve wrote, I’ve written and spoken a little bit about, but I, I think we’re weakened as individuals.

It’s not all just doom and gloom because we can take it upon ourselves to educate ourselves by, listening to podcasts like this and reading books like yours and so forth and just making relatively simple changes in our, Lifestyles that can protect us against the, whether it’s just negligence or malevolence, whatever it is.

It’s not, we don’t have to just roll over. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah. I agree too. A hundred percent. I’ve seen your writings. It’s good stuff in my book. What I do for people is I tell them I have three different plans, right? So if you’re a pro athlete and I do some consulting with pro athletes, especially baseball pitching and things, if you’re a pro athlete, You want to stick, like really be careful about your artificial estrogens, [00:38:00] more extreme than most people.

That 1 percent difference makes a difference. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. Same thing with nutrition, right? That’s where you had a lot of high end nutritionists that are just get very specific on what foods they’re eating and why. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. And I even do DNA analysis. So I tell people based on their own personalized DNA, what, how their detox enzymes are functioning and all this, so that’s the gold, I call it the gold level plan.

Most people don’t need to go to that extreme, and then I have a silver level plan and then a kind of a bronze level plan, like if you’re a college student, here’s the minimal things you should do to avoid these big artificial estrogens. There’s even different levels of convenience and, you can do pretty good with pretty minimal work.

Mike Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. And on the personal care products, just to recap on that, for women, obviously the big one would be any sort of moisturizer, right? Creams that they’re putting on every day. For all of us, there’s shampoos, there’s what and what other, what are is it pretty much anything we put on or in our body is 

Dr. Anthony Jay: yeah.

Worth looking at? Looking at. Ingredients, yeah, 100%, especially because in America, the really unfortunate thing is [00:39:00] we’re allowed to say fragrances, which can just mean a blanket term and they can put parabens and phthalates in the product, but they don’t have to list it on the ingredients because it’ll just say fragrances.

Can then they go as far as saying 

Mike Matthews: that it’s paraben free? No. Okay. Hey, you gotta ask. You remember, the trans fat thing yeah, what is it? It’s less than a half a gram per serving. I think it’s less than a half a gram per serving. It’s trans fat free. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. Don’t yeah, there may be 30 

Dr. Anthony Jay: servings in that bag, but 100 percent agree.

Yeah, that’s right. I’m actually writing a book. Another book called blubber brain, and it’s about good fats and cholesterol and all this stuff. Oxidized fats. Yeah, I actually met a scientist, a famous scientist in Boston who gave a talk. And he was saying that I’ve actually eaten lunch with 3 Nobel prize winners.

It was 1 of those 3, but he said, it’s like a bucket list thing. Yeah, the perks of doing your PhD in this field, but he said that when he started to discover that trans fats were bad, he started to [00:40:00] present that data at scientific conferences and scientists were literally laughing at him while he was up on stage, like scoffing while he was giving his presentation, because it was so established that trans fats were good for you.

They’re not just neutral, but they were downright good. And obviously. I didn’t, 

Mike Matthews: I actually didn’t even know that at one point it was thought they were good for you. I’m not I’ve only read a bit about just enough to, I’ve written some long form stuff on dietary fats. So I read up on trans fats, but not the whole history.

That’s 

Dr. Anthony Jay: crazy. It’s, it happens in science. I think that’s happening a little bit with some of these artificial estrogens, I don’t know if they were Ever considered good people that what the downsides 

Mike Matthews: being downplayed 

Dr. Anthony Jay: people will scoff, you put this out there and you say, look, phthalates cause this whole list of health problems.

You can cite scientific research and everything, 

Mike Matthews: but there’s 

Dr. Anthony Jay: scoffing, but I 

Mike Matthews: made a joke in the beginning about the frogs or put whether putting in making the frogs Garrett. It’s the Alex Jones thing, which ironically, though, it’s actually happening. It’s real. It’s a real thing, which is funny that his detractors.

There are plenty of Alex Jones is over the [00:41:00] top sensationalist, whatever. But ironically, in that case, he was 

Dr. Anthony Jay: absolutely correct. And the numbers for that are telling too, because 200 nanograms per liter of atrazine changes frogs reproductive parts. 200 again, our natural estrogen between 20 and 400, but in America, 200 is allowed legally in our drinking water.

If they come across 200 nanograms per liter of atrazine in the drinking water, they say, oh, that’s okay. That’s legit. They don’t raise any flags for that. And it does cause something called feminization of males. A lot of people it’s, it sounds political, but scientists are writing about this.

That’s what they’re calling it. Having a lot of exposures to atrazine and these other chemicals it can change not only your reproductive organs, but your brain. Again, obviously your hormones, it’s like doing a hormone replacement therapy. If you’re getting a lot of these, from different angle and the crazy thing, a lot of times scientists, they say the dose makes the poison.

Yes. It’s all the time. Oh, but we’re 

Mike Matthews: isolating it as a single saying phthalates themselves. You don’t really have to worry about it. [00:42:00] Without considering All the different ways we’re exposed to similar kind of chemicals and what the collective effects are. I’ve come across that myself just in reading up on this.

Dr. Anthony Jay: The crazy thing about the dose thing is that we store these in our fat cells, up to 10 years, a fat cell can last 10 years. Their average fat cell is about a year and a half. But so we’re storing these things in our fat. And then we’re dumping them, into our blood when we’re trying to lose weight.

And what do they do? They signal your body to gain weight, to grow fat cells, right? They again, imitating pregnancy. So it’s hard to lose these things if you’ve got a lot of fat, if you’re storing a lot of fat and you continue to rub them on your skin, or you continue to drink them in your water. So it helps a lot of people, I’ve done consulting for a lot of people that have regained their fertility, especially with avoiding artificial estrogens.

Mike Matthews: And see that’s telling just in the, like I was asking earlier, what are the bottom line effects that you know, that, that are out there. And if you can go from infertile to fertile simply through doing the things you’re talking [00:43:00] about, that’s powerful. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: And then people are spending, how many hundreds of thousands of dollars, like an individual couple just to become fertile.

And then. You could have just got some 10, 10 shampoo or whatever. 

Mike Matthews: And let your body fix itself. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah, it does. That’s the natural, that’s the 

Mike Matthews: natural order. And then not only that, so you go through IVF or whatever, and then, increased risk of cancer in the mom later and increased risk of problems with the pregnancy, birth defects and stuff.

Dr. Anthony Jay: And I got to get epigenetics in there too. Yeah. I haven’t forgotten about that. What’s if you want to 

Mike Matthews: quickly first just define the word and some people listening may be familiar with it, but some may not. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: Epi. So epi just means a pawn. So genetics is DNA. So literally it just means marks on your DNA.

Epigenetics, I think is really, it’s just becoming bigger and bigger. Like in terms of just how much information is stored there. We know that humans can pass a lot of information to the future generations through the DNA, but the epigenetics, it’s [00:44:00] just kicking open the floodgates of just how much information we can pass along.

And in how short of a time period, right? Oh, immediately. Yeah, for sure. So you for example, they discovered epigenetics through the Dutch hunger famine, hunger winter. That was when the Nazis apparently took over the Netherlands and there was literally exactly a one year famine. And obviously the mothers that were pregnant during that time had smaller babies because, they didn’t have much food.

Mike Matthews: Yep. 

Dr. Anthony Jay: But the crazy thing was the baby, those babies, The smaller babies have their own babies now, recently. And we’re finding those babies are now growing up smaller, lighter, this whole thing. And it’s because of epigenetics. So essentially, it’s because their insulin like growth factor, gene, the DNA, has different marks on it.

There’s probably a thousand different things that are changing, changing in that case, but they’ve identified real specific ones like the insulin like growth factor, IGF, and you can point to epigenetics because your DNA wouldn’t be changed, right? In a famine, you’d think yeah, again.

That baby [00:45:00] that was exposed in the womb, yeah, that’s going to be smaller, but you wouldn’t expect it in future generations. Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: Traditionally you’re thinking more in the scope of like evolution, sure. If we, if that were to go on for generations, then we might see an adaptation, but not immediately.

Dr. Anthony Jay: And and that’s what they’re finding. It’s really quick now. So especially with estrogen, I think that’s the biggest thing, again, nanograms, we’re talking about really low levels. It’s barely detectable, and that’s the problem, so you have to have pretty decent technology, even just to measure estrogen, we haven’t, scientists haven’t been able to accurately measure estrogen in men for that long, historically, because it’s so low.

The crazy thing about epigenetics with estrogen, so estrogen, when your estrogen receptor grabs an estrogen molecule, when they bind, it goes into your nucleus and acts directly on your DNA, that’s why you have so many changes in your body when you have too much estrogen. And by the way testosterone does the same thing they bind it directly to the DNA and you know They can cause all kinds of different changes.

It’s not just muscle growth, you know in the case of testosterone It’s a lot of [00:46:00] different things and similarly with estrogen. It’s not just man boobs or whatever, you know it’s a lot of different things but Because estrogen is acting directly on the DNA, when you’re eating or rubbing these things on your skin, these artificial estrogens, they’re acting directly on your DNA, and they’re altering these marks on your DNA.

So the whole point of all of me saying this is that it can alter your children. So like you can pass on these health problems. You can actually increase. Obesity, cancer and infertility in your so you can increase your risk for that and pass that on to your kids that’s scientifically shown already.

Those 3 issues, obesity, cancer and infertility just from your personal estrogen exposure. So you can be skinny, healthy, whatever, and, be at low risk for. Obesity, let’s just say, but then you can have children if you’re exposing yourself to a lot of estrogen and this can be carried out three, four generations.

It’s not even, it just keeps going on. So the science is becoming almost alarming in that regard because I [00:47:00] think we’re underestimating it as a culture of how deep this health problem is. Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: Don’t abuse your future children. Take care of them now 

Dr. Anthony Jay: and yourself. Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. If nothing else, do it for the kids.

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: So you’ve mentioned a couple of books. One is Estro generation. People can find that I’m assuming wherever books are sold, they can find it 

Dr. Anthony Jay: online. Yeah. Okay. 

Mike Matthews: And then you’re working on a new book, which people you mentioned blubber brain and people can follow you and find out when that’s going to be available.

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. I’m hoping that’s going to be six months. It’s going to be in the same series, the Sugren and Tonic series. So I’m doing a whole series. I’m going to do one on MTHFR. So I have a couple of books lined up in that regard. I’m also trying to do a side project on epigenetics specifically, just have a really simplified, a book that’s just easy to read for normal people on epigenetics and how many health impacts those can have and how to improve your epigenetics, not just with [00:48:00] artificial estrogen avoidance, but other things.

And by the way, My goal when I write is to make things easy to read for anybody, not science, not scientists specifically. Otherwise, I feel like I’m just wasting my time because, if normal people can’t read it, then what’s the point? I want to be able to communicate this to everybody because it’s a problem that everybody has.

Absolutely. Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: That’s my number one goal in all of my writing. First and foremost, just be clear, make things simple and easily understood and right for the layman, not for the scientists. I’m not even a scientist. I don’t play one on the internet. I’m just good at learning things and then breaking them down and making them understandable.

So I think that’s absolutely the correct approach. It also sounds like you have an eye to the practical as well. You want to give people things they can do and not just overwhelm them with, Bad news, basically, and, where they’re just like great. My epigenetics are shit.

My kids are going to be shit. The planet is shit. The polar bears are shit. The whales. Fuck. What the fuck? Yeah, it’s true. Yeah, you got to be practical. So then on the flip side. [00:49:00] By making some of these changes, any other changes, by the way, anything else before we wrap up that you want to throw out there that you’d recommend that if you have some dietary changes, we have filtering the water, we have the personal care products, anything else that should be mentioned?

Dr. Anthony Jay: There’s a few other ones, but the biggest one is people microwaving their foods in the plastics. You’ve got to stop microwaving your food in plastic. It’s crazy. Good one. Yeah, it’s a good one. And red food coloring. Like I see people drinking, Products like liquids like Gatorade or whatever brand with red dye pro athletes and that’s artificial estrogen.

That stuff is it’s estrogenic it’s acting like estrogen in your body. Stop drinking it. There’s no reason to be drinking red food coloring good points I like it. 

Mike Matthews: And if you do all this, I think there’s also something to be said for the long term positive effects where I mean you have it immediately in yourself.

You have it immediately in your children if enough people Individually take it upon themselves to make these changes. That’s how the bigger changes in the world are made. It’s one individual at a time. And we can’t count, it’s clear that we can’t count on the government to [00:50:00] fix everything for us.

We can take it upon ourselves to make ourselves as healthy as possible, make our kids as healthy as possible. And that ripples out to what could become a much healthier. Society and much healthier future generations agreed. Awesome. Again, you had mentioned your website, but if you want to just quickly summarize where people can find you again your YouTube channel, maybe and your website, just so if they didn’t catch it when you mentioned these things earlier.

Dr. Anthony Jay: Yeah. YouTube is a chagrin and tonic. And then you can also find my YouTube channel just from my website, my consulting company website. So that’s ajconsultingcompany. com. All one word, AJ Consulting Company. Awesome. 

Mike Matthews: Great. This was a great discussion. I’m really glad that we had it. And I’m going to be throwing away my water bottle effective immediately.

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