How Jordan Lost 50 Pounds and Gained Muscle and Strength

Mike Matthews: [00:00:00] Hey, it’s Mike. And this podcast is brought to you by legion. My line of naturally sweetened and flavored workout supplements. Now, as you probably know, I’m really not a fan of the supplement industry. I’ve wasted thousands and thousands of dollars over the years on worthless supplements that are Basically do nothing and I’ve always had trouble finding products actually worth buying and especially as I’ve gotten more and more educated as to what actually works and what doesn’t and eventually after complaining a lot, I decided to do something about it and start making my own supplements.

The exact supplements I myself have always wanted a few of the things that make my products unique are one They’re 100 percent naturally sweetened and flavored which I think is good because while our official sweeteners May not be as harmful as some people claim there is research that suggests regular consumption of these chemicals May not be good for our health particularly our gut health So I like to just play it safe and sweeten everything with stevia and erythritol Which are natural sweeteners [00:01:00] that actually have health benefits, not health risks.

Two, all ingredients are backed by peer reviewed scientific research that you can verify for yourself. If you go on our website and you check out any of our product pages, you’re going to see that we explain why we’ve chosen each ingredient. And we cite all supporting evidence in the footnotes. So you can go look at the research for yourself and verify that we’re doing the right thing.

Three, all ingredients are also included at clinically effective dosages, which are the exact dosages used in those studies that prove their effectiveness. This is very important because while a molecule might be proven to, let’s say, improve your workout performance, not all dosages are going to improve your workout performance.

If you take too little. You’re not going to see any effects. You have to take the right amounts. And the right amounts are the amounts proven to be effective in scientific research. And four, there are no proprietary blends, which means you know exactly what you’re buying when you buy our supplements. All of our formulations are 100 percent transparent in terms of ingredients and dosages.

So if that sounds interesting to you and you want to check it out, [00:02:00] then go to www. legionathletics. com. That’s L E G I O N. And if you like what you see and you want to buy something, use the coupon code podcast, P O D C A S T. And you will save 10 percent on your order. Also, if you like what I have to say in my podcast, then I guarantee you’ll like my books.

I make my living primarily as a writer. So as long as I can keep selling books, then I can keep writing articles over at muscle for life and Legion and recording podcasts and videos like. This and all that fun stuff. Now I have several books, but the place to start is bigger leaner, stronger if you’re a guy and thinner leaner, stronger if you’re a girl.

Now these books, they’re basically going to teach you everything you need to know about dieting, training and supplementation to build muscle, lose fat and look and feel great without having to give up all the foods you love or live in the gym, grinding away at workouts you hate. And you can find my books everywhere.

You can buy books online like Amazon, audible I books, Google play Barnes and Noble. Cobo and so forth. [00:03:00] And if you’re into audio books like me, you can actually get one of my audio books for free with a 30 day free trial of audible. To do that, go to www. muscleforlife. com forward slash audio books. That’s muscle for life.

com forward slash audio books and you’ll see how to do this. So thanks again for taking the time to listen to my podcast. I hope you enjoy it and let’s get to the show.

Hey, this is Mike. And in this episode of the podcast, I am going to interview someone named Jordan. Jordan reached out to me maybe over a year ago now after he had read bigger, leaner, stronger, and was going to get on the program. And he had started maybe about 240 pounds or so and got down to about 180 pounds and gained a bit of muscle and strength in the process.

So he eventually went up on the website as a success. And I [00:04:00] thought it would be cool to do. I was thinking maybe do like one a month where I reach out to someone like Jordan. Maybe I’ll do, I’ll do a guy and then a girl and a guy and a girl and not, and kind of hear from them what the process has been like, you know, getting, getting into better shape and in what are the, what are the, what are the issues they’ve run into and how did they overcome, you know, those, those problems, those obstacles, and kind of just let the conversations go where they’re going to go.

Like in this case, you’ll see what Jordan talk a bit about traveling because for his work, he was traveling a lot while he was cutting. How did he make that work? Cause that can be tricky. Talk about intermittent fasting because that has helped him and something he has continued throughout. Even though in my books, bigger than you’re stronger, thinner than you’re stronger, which are like the main kind of, at least that’s where most guys and girls should start.

I don’t necessarily recommend intermittent fasting. I don’t say that you should be doing it. You don’t, it’s not that you shouldn’t do it, but most people are going to find that eating. Three to five or maybe six meals a day is going to be generally more enjoyable than fewer. But some people like fewer meals.

And so we talk a bit [00:05:00] about that and those, you know, the scenarios where I F maybe even makes more sense than a traditional diet structure and vice versa. And and then we get into some business stuff and you know, in the end he asked me a question, asked me, asked me a question. It’s business related.

So I thought that’d actually be cool as well at the end of the podcast that I, you know, these interview type podcasts, let whoever, you know, whoever I’m interviewing, let’s, well, what, what’s their one big question for me and whatever it is, if it can be a diet, it can be diet training, supplementation, life, business, I don’t know, whatever you want to ask me is is, and I’ll just roll with it.

So hope you liked the podcast. Let me know, let me know if you like this idea, if I should do more like this again, I was thinking like one a month would be cool. And, and then, you know, and the rest, Just either be me, monologuing, , or, or a guest you know, talking about whatever it is that we’re, we would talk about.

Okay. So let’s get to the podcast and please do let me know what you think of it. Alright. Hey Jordan, thanks for coming on the podcast. You’re, you’re the Guinea pig for whatever kind of template where we’re gonna call this . I like [00:06:00] to, like, once a month I wanna talk with. Real people. And I mean, obviously I have a lot of people I can just reach out to that have done my stuff.

So I might as well do that, but it’s not just to plug my stuff per se, more just to talk about your experiences with, you know, yeah, sure. It could be bigger than a stronger, but also just with that the diet and training philosophies that it’s not just what I teach, but you know, that this flexible dieting is becoming the thing now, heavy strength training is becoming the thing now.

And you know what I mean? So I thought it’d just be good to get. I, I, I ramble on and on and on about this stuff, but to get other people’s perspectives. 

Jordan: Yeah, no, definitely. Well, thanks for having me. It’s good to be in the, the, the you know, the first the guinea pig to see how this, how this goes.

But yeah, no, just to give a little background about myself. I started weightlifting probably when I was probably when I was I was in my teenage years, you know, probably around 16, like every, every kid, you know, just wants to get big and you see all those, those, those 

Mike Matthews: girls, right? I mean, that’s why I started weightlifting because I was like, yeah, I was 17 and I started to realize that like, that’s in that age where, you know, [00:07:00] girls are 17, like.

Okay, these girls like muscles. So I’m gonna I’m gonna get some muscles. 

Jordan: Yeah, right I didn’t like back at that time. You’re looking at like like Brad Pitt and thinking he’s like Jack. Yeah I remember my club, but it’s just 

Mike Matthews: and then in Troy he was like literally massive

Jordan: Yeah, no, absolutely so yeah, I got started working out then You know just kind of did the typical like I have two older brothers So I would usually go with them to the gym. Just kind of do whatever they did Just kind of follow and then you know read on Whatever magazine they were trying to push, you know, smash your chest with 600, 000 exercises in one day and all that stuff.

So, I mean, I did that and it was, it was all right. I mean, I, you know, gained a little bit of muscle obviously, because you’re going to gain muscle with any kind of resistance training, you know, especially at that 

Mike Matthews: age. I mean, it’s hard to over train. So you just Oh, you can waste your time being efficient, but at that age, your hormones are out of control.

So exactly. And you’re sleeping a lot and eating a 

Jordan: lot. So, Oh, definitely. So, and that’s something that, you know, I [00:08:00] got really fond of, which, which got me to the, to the weight and then where I started you know started cutting on muscle for life. But yeah, no, so I just got started to it, like you said, like everybody else.

And then, you know, never really got too, too serious with it, you know, kind of had. different views on it, you know, wanted to, you know, the whole eat big, get big kind of thing. I stuck with that, but I wasn’t really, I wouldn’t say like I was like super strong. I mean like, I remember when I was maybe like 215, 220 pounds.

I mean like that picture, when I, that I had on. As I started my transformation, you know, I was the max I was I was like almost 240 I was a big I was just a fat a fat guy and like it was and I just thought I was like You know jacked and like, you know, yeah, it’s stupid kind of so It was funny too because when I got up to that weight, you know all throughout college I worked at the at the cheesesteak factory So, you know, I had like all this, you 

Mike Matthews: know, 

Jordan: 3, 

Mike Matthews: 000 calorie salads at your disposal.

Jordan: I had all, I had full access to all that stuff. So I was like, all right, well, you know, I just got to eat big to get big. So, you know, eating cheesecake every night, all this stuff, just horrible for you. Just not really [00:09:00] realizing, but even when I was that weight, like when I was like 235, 240. I would still be struggling with like 225 on the bench.

Like I wasn’t strong cause you know, I didn’t do really, I didn’t have any strength training. It was just that typical, like, you know, eight to 12 reps or. I mean, this is my, 

Mike Matthews: this is my story. I, this is the same thing. I mean, I didn’t get up to that. I didn’t get up to that heavy, but I don’t think I could. I actually don’t think I could get up to two.

I, it would require, I would just be straight obese if I were to. Yeah, I was, I was probably, but for me, I just know my body, like I’d have to eat 10, 000 calories a day and just get obese basically. 

Jordan: Oh yeah. I mean, well, I mean, McDonald’s, Burger King and cheesecake every night. I’m pretty sure. You know, and also pineapple Ben and Jerry’s, you know, cause it’s going to make you strong.

So God, that was horrible. But yeah, no. So then. And eventually, you know, that was throughout college and stuff. I kind of leaned down a little bit, but, you know, never really got under, under 200 pounds. Like, I was always, you know, pretty heavy, and I stayed up at that weight for a while. And so, like I said, like, one night, you know, one day, [00:10:00] like, after, like, a night of eating pizza and, like, drinking beer and stuff like that, I, like, looked at myself in the mirror and I was like, I don’t, like, I see everyone, like, on Instagram and, like, Facebook and, like, all these people.

Even, like, I just started reading your, your stuff, and I was like, You know, these people, they got to, I’m like, I just got to stop being such a fat kid and you know, just actually put the work in and do it. I’m like, you know, by working out, like I want to get stronger, I want to get more muscle mass, but I don’t want to be carrying around, you know, all this extra weight and have like pants that barely fit me and stuff like that.

Just like uncomfortable. You go up a flight of stairs, you’re out of breath, and just like all that stuff. When you put on your seatbelt, you’re like, God. As it kind of tucks under. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, just really uncomfortable. So, I mean, like I said, I started doing research, and I started reading your articles.

Just like I said, when I started this whole transformation, I was actually traveling back and forth to Boston, Massachusetts for a project I was on. And you know, just kind of reading your articles. I remember reading it just waiting for my flight and then I saw your book and I was like, Oh, let [00:11:00] me just, you know, pull my iPad.

I bought it, started reading it right then and there. And I was like, all right, this guy, he’s onto something like, all right, I see what, see what you’re doing here. And and then eventually I was like, you know what? And then like pretty much that day I was like, all right, I’m just going to download, you know, cause I have had like minor success with using What’s that that calorie tracker my fitness?

Yeah. Yeah, like I had to like minor success in the past But again, like I went down from like 240 to 220. Yeah, and then like kind of hovered around that So I downloaded that and then just from there. I mean I was I was using that every day And then you know, I would travel in Sunday night through Through Friday, Friday night.

So then I try to go to the gym, you know, just three days a week. Let’s 

Mike Matthews: talk a little bit. How did you make that work with traveling? Cause that’s, I’ve, I’ve written an article about it a while ago. It’s probably like due for an update or a more in depth treatment, but that is something that I know a lot of people run into.

You know, just it is, it is trickier. So how did you, how did you manage that? 

Jordan: Absolutely. So like I said I really didn’t go, I try to focus on [00:12:00] just going to the gym those three days a week. Just the Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I really just did like a chest and shoulders kind of, you know, thing. And then like a back, like a push, pull legs.

Yeah. It’s pretty much what I did. I’m looking back on it. But then, you know, maybe during the week I would try to just do some, some basic body weight stuff just in my room, like at night after, you know, after work and after I went to dinner or something like that you know, pushups, sit up, stuff like that.

Yeah. And then some of the hotels I stayed at, you know, had a gym. I would go there, maybe do a little bit, just like maybe a quick circuit, but I wasn’t, I wouldn’t say I really did that too, too often when I was at work, because I was, it was, you know, 80 plus hours a week and then traveling on top of it, so it was, it was insane.

Yeah. But yeah, and then, and then once I, I started noticing, you know, that was in September, that’s when I started. How did you do with your food? So with my food it was great because again, like, since I was traveling and my company was, you know, paying for everything, I was able to manipulate everything, you know, even if it costs more, it didn’t really, not like I had no price, but also a lot of the things I stuck to pretty much the same meals a day, like every day I’d eat the same thing.

Mike Matthews: And what would you eat? [00:13:00] Because there are a lot of people, again, where money’s not the problem. They just don’t understand like logistically, you know, because also did you have to go to dinners with people? Yeah. Yeah. 

Jordan: So just, just to play off that my daily if I could break up my daily, you know, kind of routine with food, it would be in the morning.

I would usually skip breakfast, to be honest with you. I usually just, because that’s what was for me, you know, I, I, I after started reading into the intermittent fasting and all that stuff. So breakfast would be, you know, a coffee, probably like a, like a, like a giant iced coffee from, you know, one of the places around.

And I had lunch maybe around 12, 1230 and I’d usually just go to Chipotle or like a similar where you can get a night. Yeah, exactly. And like a lot of the places in, if I didn’t go to a place like that where they didn’t have the nutrition calculators, say if I went to like a sandwich place and I would use like Another place I would use, I know like Subway or like someone has like the, the nutritional information on there that yeah, I can kind of relate.

Mike Matthews: Yeah, exactly. It’d be the same thing like, oh, well, you’re eating a medium sized blueberry muffin. So yeah, it’s not the exact brand, [00:14:00] but what are most Bluebell kale? I’ll just take, I’ll take the high one out of those. Yeah, 

Jordan: exactly. Or like, yeah, exactly. So that, and also, you know, since I was in a city, I was, I was walking more, which definitely helped.

I mean, because. I just, I enjoyed it and you know, I walked everywhere. So yeah, these are 

Mike Matthews: good tips and these are all like, that’s the same, even when, if I’m out traveling and I’m, I’m not usually cutting because these days I’m kind of just maintaining, I’ll make a point of that, of trying to walk. Cause like, you know, I think I’m short that we’re about this reason you probably burn about.

Yeah. So if you do a few hours of walking and, you know, that of course counts wherever you walk. It’s not just like you have to be outside on the sidewalk walking. Yeah. So if you can, if you can rack up a few hours walking per day, it, it, it makes a big difference. 

Jordan: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, I would, I’d walk a lot.

And then, you know, you always walk in to get lunch. You’re walking to go dinner, you’re walking back to your place or whatever you guys are doing for the day. You know, so that was, that was a big thing. I mean, I just enjoyed it. And also you know, that helped. And I started noticing right from there, like as soon as for the first week, I probably dropped like three or four pounds and I know it’s like the initial [00:15:00] water weight, you know, cause I’m, I’m starting to track and getting serious.

But then, you know, after a couple of weeks I started to notice, you know, how my suits, my pants and my suits don’t fit anymore. I’m like, I need to get, so just like, it was the good problems that you have when you’re losing weight. Yeah. And then that was in September. That project probably wrapped out around the middle of November.

And then so that was about, you know, maybe two and a half months. I was I was on that did the traveling. And then once, you know, I came back, I had, you know, kind of a little bit more time to work out. So I started broadened it up to maybe about four days a week. And I was doing the traditional, you know, the muscle for life.

I was doing chest, chest, and usually triceps, back and biceps, shoulders, and also legs. And again, like I said in my in my little a little blurb about my, my success story, I really liked working out that way. Like, again, like I, I always stuck to the higher rep range and then once I, once I read that, I was like, you know, this, this makes more sense than what, you know, I read in a magazine or I read in this article that some, you know, roided out bodybuilder was telling me.

You have to do 4, 000 reps of a chest. And then that 

Mike Matthews: muscles don’t know weight. They only know tension. [00:16:00] Yeah. That’s why, you know, just do 150 

Jordan: reps per workout. Exactly. Yeah. It’s like, all right, well, I could do, you know, 15 pounds dumbbells or I could do, you know, a hundred pound dumbbells. And I’ll get more results for the latter.

But yeah, so I started following that and then I also, I just used like the notes app in my, in my iPhone and I was just tracking every week, you know, chest, these are all the workouts, you know, this is the weight last week and this is how many reps I hit every set. And then I would try to beat it once I hit the six the six reps.

I would try to, you know, for all three or, you know, folks in that rep range, I try to add a couple of five, you know, five pounds or whatever. Yeah. And again, I use that all throughout and I noticed that I was getting stronger. So I was like, why is my bench going up and I’m losing body weight? And I’m like, now you know, let’s say fast forward a little bit.

I’m like, I’m in, I’m in the one eighties. You know and I’m benching more like I said in the beginning like when I was 220 Yeah, and I’m like 225 isn’t really that hard anymore like I’m getting stronger I’m like I just never never trained that way for strength, and I mean it was awesome So I really I enjoyed you know using those methods and also [00:17:00] Again, just the diets the diet recommendations kind of following that with it with the macros high protein You know moderate carbs kind of lower on the end fats again, that was all kind of attributed to the culmination of all those things that I was, you know, working towards and getting to eventually where I had my my point was like, all right, I was like, I, I don’t look like how I used to look without a shirt.

So, so the thing about that, it was, you know, that was, I believe it was in February, the beginning of February when I, when I was on featured on your, on, on one of the social medias, I think around then. So, you know, that time, of course, me, like I always had the mindset and I still do like, I want to be as big as possible.

Like. So I’m like, all right, I have, I’m like, I don’t, I don’t want to lose this. I’m like, I don’t want to lose, I want to stay at this body fat, but you know, I want to try working on getting stronger. And so like pretty much what I did. And again, I don’t know if you want to get into like, kind of leading up to like after there, like where I am now, or like that went on, I’m 

Mike Matthews: following your lead.

Jordan: Yeah. So, I mean. All throughout, that was in February, I tried to kind of do like a little bit of a bulk in kind of like a mini, you know, [00:18:00] like I remember like sending you an email about it or something like, you know, a long time ago. Yeah. It was maybe like a month, month and a half. And then I was like, all right, well, it’s, you know, end of March, April, you know, summer’s coming up again.

I live. In like a beach town in New Jersey. So I’m like, you know, obviously I want to, I still want to be able to take my shirt off and not, you know, feel like a total mess. Yeah. But yeah. It’s 

Mike Matthews: the curse of, of the, of getting lean is then if you’re not at your leanest. Then you’re, you kind of just feel fat.

That’s the, that’s the neurosis. That’s what it turns into. It doesn’t matter if you, if you get down to, it doesn’t matter what it is, like if you’re, if you compete or if you just did it for photo shoot or just for fun, if you get super lean, anything but that now is not good enough. Exactly. Unfortunately, it’s just learn how to deal with it 

Jordan: meant psychologically.

You just have to tell yourself to settle down. Exactly. I know. It’s like, it’s like the thing, like but yeah, no, and that’s, and that’s pretty much what it was. So it’s like, all right, it’s summertime. I’m just going to maintain. So I used a lot of the principles. I mean, I ate a little more. Yeah, but I did use like the intermittent fasting.

Like I use that, you know, all throughout the summer. I, I tried to, you know, I was [00:19:00] drinking coffee for breakfast and then try to eat a lunch or like, you know, if I’m going to, well, how does it, how does intermittent fasting help you? Like, what do you, what do you like about it? Yeah. Yeah. So for me, like I never, even, you know, as long as I can remember, I never really liked as soon as I woke up, just shoving food down my mouth.

Like everyone is like, Oh, you know, it’s good for your metabolism. It’s all this. I’m like, eh, You know, I, I can take it or leave it, but I always thought, you know, again, reading those bodybuilding magazines, I’m in a super hyper catabolic state. My muscles are literally falling off my body if I don’t, you know, if I don’t, you know, get a hundred grams of protein in my body right away.

Yeah. Like so. Is that movie like 

Mike Matthews: Prometheus 

Jordan: in the beginning when the dude’s just like withering away? Exactly. You’re on, you’re on fire right now. Your muscles are, yeah. But yeah, so I noticed I’m like, wait, is this, this is, you know, there’s science that’s saying otherwise. So, you know, let me read into this.

And then again, you know. I know you touched upon it in, in and beyond bigger, leaner, stronger too. So, you know, I picked that book up of course, to, you know, kind of see what what’s next or what else can I do. And you know, I was still getting a little bit stronger, right? And like I said, throughout the summer, I tried to maintain and then [00:20:00] once it hit September, I was like, all right, I’m still, you know, back, I was probably about one between 180 and 185.

So I still managed my weight. I kept my weight, you know, regardless of, you know, going out to eat on the weekends or drinking beer at night, you know, stuff like that, like bonfires and things like, you know, so. Yeah. I was like, all right, now it’s time to just get stronger, you know, pack on some, some muscle if I can, you know, cause I’ve been working out again since probably about 16 since I was 16 or 17.

So I’m 25 now. So about eight or nine years. And it’s like, well, how much more, you know, cause there’s always like those different schools of thought. It’s like, you know, how much more muscle can you gain? Yeah. And then, you know, you do those calculators. I think it’s like that one Casey, but or whatever, it’s like your genetic potential.

And I do that and I’m like, I still have a long way to go. So it’s like, Can I really gain that? So yeah, so I was, I’ve been bulking since September and what I’ve noticed too is again, a lot of your kind of in a lot of your articles, it’s talking about, you know, the optimal way to build muscle and it’s, again, I used to have the school thought of, you know, you have to eat 12, 000 calories and, you know, just have an IV of Ben and Jerry’s all at all, any time of the day.

So I went a little bit, [00:21:00] you know, I, I kind of kept it within 250 calories and stuff like that. I noticed I was getting stronger. Yeah. One thing that I always did, and it’s funny because I never really did squats. I kind of left it out. I didn’t neglect my legs. I mean, I always did like, yeah, I always did like heavy leg press and I really skipped leg day.

But then over the summer, I remember reading one of your articles about the Adidas Adipower, the squat shoes and stuff like that. And I was like, you know, I was like, let me give that a shot. And also with that, I know my, my squat depth sucked. You know, like a lot of people who, you know, do like the quarter squats or eight squats or whatever.

I, you know, in your book Beyond Bigger, Leaner, Stronger, you had all those stretches. So I was doing that every day every night before I went to bed, you know, I was, I was doing those stretches to help my squat depth. And then I got those shoes and I was like, holy crap, what a difference. And then I started squatting, you know pretty much twice a week and I’m done, that’s.

It’s been my focus since I started bulking since September was, I’ve been doing legs twice a week. So I’m doing squats and I usually do one muscle for lifestyle. So I do like the six the four to six reps and do a higher rep. And then I do, yeah. Then I do like a higher rep squat or like a [00:22:00] 20 rep squat or something like that.

Just, you know, just to kind of get my legs somewhat so they’re not, I’m not just standing on two legs. Pencils. Yeah. How have you progressed so far? So I progressed pretty well. I, again, like having never really been able to squat well or without pain or without, you know, getting down like with depth probably in the summer I was probably squatting around like maybe one 60, one 75 I, the last, last, last Friday, cause it’s usually my heavy leg day.

I did three 15 for, you know, three sets of, you know, six. That’s great. So I was happy about that. Yeah. And I was like, all right, this is cool. And then, you know, my, my front squat, I’m around like two 25. Nice. So I’m like, all right. And then like the other days, like the later days I’ll do, I worked up. So I started at like, you know, two, two 40 or whatever.

And I do three sets of 10. And now I’m up to this week, it’s going to be one 70 for two, you know, three reps of 10. Three sets of 10. Yeah. Other than that, again, my bench went up to, I was doing the beyond bigger leaner, stronger. So I was doing, you know, the, the, some real heavy stuff. Yeah. They’re real heavy.

So like the, the two to three rep range I hit three Oh five. Nice. And that’s, that’s big for me because [00:23:00] I actually I tore my labrum. When I was in high school. And so, I mean, I had surgery on my shoulder and it’s always kind of be a thing that I have to kind of look out for, but to the fact that I was able to bench, you know, that heavy or, you know, and bench 275 between four and six, I mean, for three reps, you know, I still think that’s a, that’s a, it’s an accomplishment in my book.

Mike Matthews: Yeah. I mean, I, I don’t, I don’t think I’ve ever been higher than 295 personally. And that was, that was the last time that I bulked. I mean, if I would have continued bulking, I’m sure I could get stronger, but I have super long arms, which work really against me. Oh yeah. And of 

Jordan: course, if you’re not, I have straight 

Mike Matthews: monkey arms.

Jordan: Yeah. If you’re not like five, two, like you are not good for like powerlifting. Cause it’s like, yeah, basically like if you have 

Mike Matthews: a range of motion, then forget it. I have long femurs too. My body is not made for Wait for, for, for strength training. It’s just not even, even genetically. I did a DNA fit test and genetically, like I’m much more predisposed to be, it would be a, like an endurance athlete, I guess, that works for me in [00:24:00] terms of muscle building, which has helped me just whatever, get as far as I’ve gotten is I forget the name of the gene, but it’s a gene that it is particularly affects muscle recovery, if I remember correctly.

And so these guys, they work with a lot of professional athletes, like professional soccer players and stuff. And they said that like. 80 percent of professional athletes they work with have that genetic quality. So they’re like, that’s why that, that basically genetically explains why my body has responded well to, to weightlifting in terms of hypertrophy.

But like, you know, I would not make a good strength. My, my one, I have super long arms, super long legs and genetically, I’m just not made for it. So I’m with, I’m with you on that. Like I was happy in my last time bulking, I got to, I did. I think three or two or something with 295. And I was like, yeah, all right.

Well, yeah, it’s not, it’s not three 15, but I’m 

Jordan: sick of being fat. So this is where it eventually comes to the point. It’s like, all right, well, you know, I’m, I mean, I have zero, zero aspirations for powerlifting, you know, exactly. Those guys are just, it’s all, yeah, it’s a whole nother level. So [00:25:00] I’m like, you know what, I like working out.

It’s fun for me. I like, you know, changing the way my body looks, you know, I like pushing myself. So, you know, I’m not. It’s going to be, you know, all like gear, you know, we’re in a like a bench press, you know, shirt and all that stuff and, you know, have the crazy arch and stuff. So, I mean, even 

Mike Matthews: if you stay raw, I mean, there’s, it’s just obviously a lot of wear and tear on the body and, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s, if you’re playing any sport competitively, there’s going to be some element of that, but you know, that just is what it is.

Jordan: Yeah, no, definitely. And, and with, with, with that, you know, I have a couple of just stupid injuries. Like I have a herniated disc in my lower back. So I have, you know, when I do kind of heavier squats, I do use a weight belt and same thing with deadlifts. Like, I mean, the most I got off the deadlifts was I think 425.

I did, you know, 405 for six and I was like, all right, you know, this is good. I don’t feel like my spine is going to shoot out of my back. So I think I’m pretty good. But again, you know, I’m always trying to get stronger and stuff like that. So I’m not just completely neglecting or going to stay at that.

So but yeah, and then that’s, I’ve noticed, I think there’s 

Mike Matthews: something to be said too for, I mean, I’ve [00:26:00] run into this myself that there is a point where I feel like I haven’t sustained any real injuries, which, you know, knock on wood, but, but there is a point where I’ve thought myself, like. You know, you start going there, like dead lifting 500 pounds is not good for your body.

You just can’t. You know what I mean? There’s a, or, or there’s a point to make, probably depends on, on the individual’s body and, and you know, it depends a lot of things, but I think there’s definitely a point with everyone’s bodies where it’s like, okay, you’re very strong. You have, you know, enough strength to build as much muscle as you possibly can naturally.

And Yeah. Structurally speaking, there’s a point where like if you keep going, your rate of your, your risk of injury probably rises quite faster than it did 

Jordan: leading up 

Mike Matthews: to that. 

Jordan: You know what I mean? Yeah. Exponentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I, I totally agree with that. So that’s the thing. It’s like if you’re, you know, moving heavier, heavyweight and you’re pretty much stronger than about 90 percent of the people that go to the gym and do the same workout, you [00:27:00] know, week in, week out and not.

You know, that’s, that’s perfectly fine with me and that’s, I’ve noticed that it’s and then you can 

Mike Matthews: work. I mean, at that level, this is, we’re talking about like you’re an advanced weightlifter and you’ve put, you know, years of work and you’ve built your foundation, you’ve built more than your foundation.

You’ve probably achieved 90 percent of your genetic potential really. Then you can work in different ways. I mean, gaining strength is fine, but you have to realize that like gaining muscles comes very slowly. And, and then also, you know, with, when you’re periodizing your workouts, like you are, you can make progress and even in higher rep ranges is fine, especially because now you can actually move some weight for 10 reps or 12 reps, even 20 reps, as opposed to years ago.

And this is the same thing for me, how I used to train where I was like. Pretty fucking weak. So, you know, like, yeah, it’s fine to do 20 rep sets, but when you’re doing it with no weight, it just doesn’t, the body doesn’t respond. 

Jordan: Exactly. Yeah. When I’m, when I’m using 15 pounds and I’m doing incline, you know, incline bench on their dumbbell bench.

Yeah. It’s like, what, what are you doing? Just feeling the burn. Well, it’s all about muscle confusion, right? So that’s what we got to do here. But yeah, no, so, so that kind of leads me. And, and like [00:28:00] I said, I started bulking in September around 180, 185, I’m around 200, 205 now. And it’s like, it’s crazy.

Cause I’m like, all right, I’m like, this is weird. I still have bicep veins. I’m like, I still have like veins, like, you know, my quads and like that. I’m like, all right, you know, obviously I don’t have not ripped in another six pack. I’m like, but I still have like, you know, a decent amount. So like, I’m getting to the point like that, where it’s that the, kind of the cutting and bulking phase where you get up to around, you know, 14, 50 percent body fat.

And then, you know, I’m going to, I’m planning on, another two or three weeks to start cutting, you know, just get back. Are you sick of eating yet? No, I know. No, I hate, I hate when people are just like, Oh, I can’t eat enough. And I’m like you, like, I wish I had that problem. Like, Oh, it’s like, I can’t, it’s, I’m totally so full.

And I’m like, hi, I’m seriously, I’m a black hole. I probably have a very, or probably several very happy tapeworms. I was going to say, do you have a tapeworm? But the thing is, it’s funny. Cause my whole, my whole family, like, I mean, like my, my older brother, he’s, he’s massive. You know, he eats a ton and he’s strong, you know, strong as hell.

It’s just funny though, cause I can never like, it’s, I probably [00:29:00] amaze everyone that like, you know, whoever goes to dinner with me or like, I know my girlfriend and her family is like, how do you like still have room? Like. You eat all this food and then you eat dessert and then you’re like, I just it’s like there’s no off button.

Mike Matthews: Yeah I actually strangely enough I can do that. I can eat a ton of food in one sitting But I don’t get hungry whether I eat or I don’t eat Like my version of hunger is I just feel like kind of like it would be cool to eat some food, but I don’t get, I don’t get hunger pangs. You know what I mean? So I can, I could, I could eat 2000 calories in a day and be like, yeah, sure.

Whatever. Or I could eat 5, 000 in one, maybe not in one meal. I could definitely easily eat 3000 in one meal and be like, Oh. Dude, I’m just getting warmed up. So, 

Jordan: yeah, 

Mike Matthews: I can 

Jordan: relate to that. Exactly, and it’s funny because, like I said, before I started intermittent fasting, I used to notice I would get hangry a lot.

Because, again, I have that mindset that if I’m not eating, that whole I swear the psychological plays a role. Oh, absolutely. I know a lot of the fitness industry does. They prey on all your psychological you [00:30:00] know, some of these things you see. 

Mike Matthews: You need that protein every, every three hours. And it should be this protein supplement, of course.

Yeah, 

Jordan: of course. Yeah. You need to and then you’re going to gain, you know, 50 pounds of muscle in the eight weeks that you take this in a double blind study. Yeah, exactly. 

Mike Matthews: Conducted by University of Tampa. 

Jordan: Yeah. This 

Mike Matthews: supplement 

Jordan: is better than steroids. Exactly. It’s like, oh, legal steroids, you know, that. So but yeah, just to go with that, since I, since I started fasting, I mean, I don’t, I don’t do it now that I’m bulking, but I mean, I do, I mean, I usually, again, when I wake up for work, I usually wake up around like 5 30 in the morning and I usually eat maybe my first meal at 10.

So, I mean, I still am kind of doing it. So, it’s just your version of it. It’s just when you feel kind of eating when you feel like eating. Exactly. So, it’s like convenient for me, but I’ve noticed I don’t get hangry anymore. Like I know if I’m, you know, going to dinner and like, we’re waiting long and like, I didn’t really eat much of the day.

I’m like, I’m fine. It’s just like a different. It’s cool because it’s almost like a different kind of mindset now that I have one before I would get like shit I need it right funny. Yeah, I need it now. Just give it to [00:31:00] like I need it my body. I don’t care Yeah, 

Mike Matthews: But my and my girlfriend now my wife she used to have like protein bars in her purse Because back in the day when I was Uninformed and yeah, she would know like I would be like, oh, you know I mean, I wasn’t like it wasn’t like I was on a clock but I, again, it was a psychological where I like felt that, Oh, I needed to eat every few hours or I’m going to lose muscle.

So then my, I don’t know, every few hours I would just get super hungry. Like I need protein right now. 

Jordan: Yeah, no, or I need to, my metabolism is going to go to a screeching hold and I’m just going to starvation mode. Exactly. Yeah. It’s like, you don’t like, and then like just reading all that stuff, it’s just amazing.

Like. That doesn’t happen for like, you know, 24, like 48 hours. Like after you don’t eat anything, like, yeah, like if you go three days without eating, that’s, that’s a problem. Yeah, that’s a problem. But you know, never going to have that. I don’t think, you know, but it’s just, like I said, I, I, my kind of my mindset changed with a lot of things, you know, following.

Your book and following, you know, the intermittent fasting and, and I know once I start cutting again, I’m probably going to push that window out longer start [00:32:00] drinking coffee. Do you 

Mike Matthews: like with, do you like with IF when you’re cutting that you get to eat larger meals? Does that help you just not overeat basically?

Jordan: Yeah, it, it does. I like pushing it, pushing it out, you know, it’s cause I like getting more hungry at night, you know, after post workout and stuff like that, you’re just ravenous. So you know, I, I, I like that so much better. And Just with that, I mean, that’s the one thing that’s tough with cutting, because I think when I first started cutting I might have adjusted my calories maybe a little bit too low, so I know when I finished my cut at, you know, 180, I was eating around maybe 2, calories.

And it’s funny, because, I mean, it’s, it sounds, It’s pretty good, I mean. It, it could, I mean, I don’t know if it’s just, you know, My metabolism or what, but I’ve noticed now, like when I started bulking, I was, I was like, okay, so let’s say 2, 500, it’s like my, my maintenance. So I was like, all right, let’s go up to like, say 2, 700.

And like, I was eating that and I was like, all right, I’m not really gaining weight. And then like, I moved up to like 2, 800 and I’m like, I’m still not like, I’m, I’m gaining a little bit. And then like, I’m not like for like two weeks and then I’m like, I plateaued. So like, I’m up till now, I’m up to around like 3, calories.

Like I, I [00:33:00] keep like a, I don’t track it as. Strictly and religiously as I did when I was cutting obviously, but I still have that, you know, once you kind of do that You know, you’re in that range. Yeah, exactly 

Mike Matthews: one to thirty three hundred. 

Jordan: Yeah, so like that’s what I’ve been doing now And I mean, I love it. I just love

And then other things I see when 

Mike Matthews: I my last book though I was eating probably by the end again I wasn’t tracking every because yeah, so, you know, it was just I was eating so much goddamn food It was like it was 400 a day and I had to, to just to keep gaining weight. And I wasn’t even super fat. I was like maybe 14, 15%, maybe even a little bit lower.

It’s always, it’s kind of always just a guesstimation, but I still had abs and stuff and whatever, but that’s where, I mean I eat so much food. I just got sick of it. And like my, my last meal of the day was a huge bowl of pasta and I would just like force it down. You know, 

Jordan: exactly. Like when you, when you come to that end of the day, you’re like, I have like.

500, 600 calories. I was like, all right, time to just put peanut butter. And so like, yeah, I just, I’m just throwing like, you know, we’d toast or something, you know, whatever. Just I need to get those [00:34:00] calories and anything, which is what, I mean, that’s a, that’s the best problem I have in my book. 

Mike Matthews: Well, there’s a point where even you would get sick of that.

I guarantee you there’s a, there’s a daily intake where you just be like, I don’t want to eat anymore. I just, oh yeah, 

Jordan: probably like a Michael, a Michael Phelps like amount, like, you know, 10, 000 calories. I think, I think probably then I would like hit my breaking point. But yeah, no. So I, I really enjoyed you know, I, so far like, you know, on the program and everything, like I’ve used it a lot of your, like, I still been following, you know, the, the, you know, the, the bigger, leaner, stronger Kind of mindset and principles with, you know, the heavier weight.

One thing I started experimenting with and playing around with is actually the upper lower days. So, so working out four times a week, but trying to focus more on, you know, upper body and lower body. Again, because I know To increase frequency. Exactly. Because I’ve never done that before and I was like, let me, let me give it a shot.

You know, and after a while, you know, your body gets used to it. Like I’m not Usually a sore as you know, if I was, if I did, you know, just a chest day and because your individual workout volume is lower [00:35:00] exactly. And I, and I feel like I’m still progressing. So, I mean, that’s just something I’ve tried again, because I’m like, I know you’re always trying to, trying to read more, trying to see, you know, all these studies and stuff like that.

And you hear you just, there’s so much. There’s so much shit on the internet. It’s just like for someone like I feel bad like for people who like Anyone who’s like starting to like work out or starting to get into it or ask me like how I did I’m like, I just put into your site. I’m like just this because Everything else you read it’s probably from someone who’s like 16 years old and like probably 105 pounds, like soaking wet, like telling you that you need to like commenting on YouTube.

Exactly. Yeah. So it’s 

Mike Matthews: like, just don’t, don’t do that. Or, or the people who are on so many drugs. Yeah, exactly. You never 

Jordan: hope to even get anywhere. Exactly. Like, Oh, I’m eating, you know, six pizzas every day and I’m, you know, I’m down to 6 percent body fat. It’s like, yeah, I’ve been 

Mike Matthews: cutting on 3000 calories a day for three months now and I’m still on 3, 000 and I’m shredded.

I don’t know. I just, I just have good genetics. I just have 

Jordan: a good metabolism. 

Mike Matthews: Thanks 

Jordan: mom and dad. Yeah, and 

Mike Matthews: I got bigger and I’m dry as fuck and [00:36:00] oh, yeah. 

Jordan: Yeah, 

Mike Matthews: it’s 

Jordan: like okay I see and I didn’t even realize like, you know Like i’ve watched a couple documentaries and stuff like that on steroids and it’s just crazy to see like How much is everyone’s just fucking on steroids?

Like it’s like not everyone. Of course, you know, it’s very prevalent I mean it is I didn’t realize it’s It was as, you know, prevalent as it is, you know, I thought a lot of people, again, this was just my naivety, I guess, when I was younger, again, you’re seeing the bodybuilders and stuff like that, who have the 87 inch quads and stuff like that.

Like, oh, this guy is just, you know, he worked really hard. Yeah. It’s like, yeah, he, he did. And then genetics. 

Mike Matthews: And those, but they’re, I mean, they’re that, that those are two very important factors for sure. But, you know, if you speak with, and I’ve spoken with professional bodybuilders that are more honest about this kind of stuff they’ll say that the most important thing is your drugs.

And then, and then from there, of course, like you’re. These guys do have crazy genetics. A lot of them like, Oh yeah, no, you know what I mean? Like look at look at Ronnie Coleman when he was in high school. Oh yeah. He’s ridiculous. He’s 

Jordan: bigger than I’ll ever get ever, 

Mike Matthews: ever be. [00:37:00] He was, he looks like given his height, he looks like he was like two 30 and maybe two 20, two 30 and lean.

And he himself said that he started doing steroids when he was 25. And I’ve, so I, the reason I know that’s cause I’m, I write. And I don’t know why he would lie about that. Like he was talking about it like, yeah, so that’s when I started doing steroids and I don’t know why he would like, what does he care if it was really 21, why would he say 25?

Exactly. Even if you look at pictures from that time when he was 25. Massive. He was massive. Oh yeah. So big. So, I mean, these guys do have genetic, I mean, they were just built to be huge, but, but then the, of course, you know, you look at some of these professional bodybuilders that have retired and now they’re, they look very natty now.

Oh yeah. That’s how that shows you that. Yeah. But they’re not taking all the, you know, even though they’re still working out, like I think there’s a couple of guys, I don’t remember. Was it flex? Maybe not flexible. There was a couple where I saw who still stay in [00:38:00] shape. There’s still, they’re still in the lifting, but they’re like, you know, half their size 

Jordan: that they were.

Oh yeah. I know. And it’s like, even like, I know the other thing that comes to mind is like is Jake Hutler when he was like 16 or 17 years old. Like it’s like, like. I can never look like that. And like, you’re not in steroids and you’re like, you know, 17 years old and you’re just like at like my genetic potential, right?

Just like, I know it’s depressing. Yeah, no. So that’s just, just to kind of play off that. So that’s why I always, I try to, you know, show them some of the stuff that you, that you post put out. Because again, a lot of it’s, a lot of it’s, you know, you’ll find the least amount of like, there’s just no, there’s no bullshit.

Like you just, you’ve been through it. You have your clients, you have your success stories and stuff like that. And it’s like, 

Mike Matthews: And I mean, just not to my own horn, but at this point I’ve worked with, I mean, I don’t even know if I were to look at my Gmail, I probably have 40, 000 emails like it’s email sent legitimately probably 40, 000.

It’s definitely over 30, 000. I could only imagine. And those aren’t, those aren’t individual, like that’s, that’d be each individual email. [00:39:00] But so I’ve, I’ve worked with now and by worked with, I mean, it’s not that I even charged people money for it, but I’ve seen so many things now and I have stayed in touch with so many people.

So in that way, I’ve worked with thousands of people, meaning like people like you that have, that came to me, it could, you know, at some point and then I’ve just stayed in touch with and they email the email every so often. And so I’ve gotten to see so many things, which has helped in like. Just, you know, seeing so many circumstances and so many situations and so many, then when new people come and say, Hey, this is a situation I’m in, I’m in, what do I do?

You know, in most cases it’s just just do the basics, but there’s a good chance I’ve also worked with somebody that has, that’s been in that exact, those person’s shoes exactly. You know what I mean? 

Jordan: Yeah, no. So it helps. Yeah, no, totally. And that’s, I mean, I think that’s so crazy that you can, you respond to like everyone.

I just, I don’t know how you get the time for that. 

Mike Matthews: It’s about priorities. And also, I mean, I do have a good system set up one. I, I don’t know how fast of a type I am now. It’s over a hundred words a minute. I’m sure I’m [00:40:00] like, I don’t know. I’ve just been typing so much at this point, but then I have a good system set up with like keyboard shortcuts and it’s, it’s like very, very efficient, but it’s also just making the time.

I’m reading a book right now. It’s called hug your haters. Kind of a funny, and it’s all about customer service. We do a little book club thing here at the office where we all read the same book, one book a month. We all read and then, and then we discuss it and stuff. And what are our notes and takeaways and how can we implement this and what we’re doing and stuff.

So this is the, the, I’m like only 30 pages in, we just started it. But so far kind of the core message of the book is. You know, the idea of the code is called hug your haters because people that are complaining instead of ignoring them or thinking that they’re assholes or attacking them, you should embrace people that are complaining because they’re telling you, they’re giving you valuable insights and intelligence on your business and they represent a silent, a large.

But silent number of people that don’t care enough to really complain, but they’re not satisfied kind of thing. Yeah. And so one of the things that like the core, you know, messages, at least in the first part of the book [00:41:00] is you have to respond to every, every review everywhere. Basically every piece of communication that comes your way, you have to respond to it good or bad.

And it’s just funny that, you know, that, that was something I never read anywhere, but even starting out. I was like, yeah, it’s going to take time to answer every email and be in touch with everyone and take care of social media and do all that shit. But I think it’s going to, I think people are really going to appreciate it because nobody does that.

And what better service can you offer, especially in this context where it’s like, okay, so the person read the book, they have questions, they’re not sure on what to do. And I could take three minutes of my time and cause I have so many articles in this case. It’s also a lot of, it’s like, Oh, that’s a good question.

Go check out this article. There you go. Like all I did was point them to an article, but it answered their question. And that makes the, that just makes such a huge difference in terms of building goodwill. So people that are, if you’re listening and you own a business, it really, really, really works. The time that you put into that is not [00:42:00] lost time.

Customer service is not a it’s a profit center if you use it properly, in my opinion. 

Jordan: Yeah, no, absolutely. I know you guys, I mean, I don’t know if you consider yourself that, but I mean, yeah, I know you guys treated yourself like a startup almost, you know, kind of like, A supplement company start up and I mean, I mean, that’s what it is factually and it’s like so cool that to see like all this like different stuff now that like you guys evolved are, you know, again, just starting out and then you put out what was it first, like the pulse or something?

You put the pre workout first. Yeah. Well, 

Mike Matthews: we, we launched with with pulse way recharge and a creatine product that we, no, no. So we were, no, no. It was pulse way. And then it was a creatine product that became recharged that we changed. And I feel like I’m forgetting one anyways, but yeah, a few products right in the beginning.

Jordan: Okay. Yeah. And then like, it’s cool to see like all the stuff that you guys, you guys have now, like I know some of them, like, I know like your, your multivitamin and the, and fortify, even though, you know, it was, it was on back order for for, for a . I, I explained why in that email. You probably saw that.

Yeah. , I mean, it was stupid. It was lame. I had, I had to like [00:43:00] concoct my own version of it in the, in the interim it was almost like that episode of Family Guy where Peter Griffin is like trying to make Red Bull. And he’s just pouring the gasoline in the blender and he’s drinking it. Yeah. So that’s yeah, so it’s, it’s like that.

But you know, like I said, like your supplements too, like I know I love like legion is, is by far like I mean, sorry, not legion, not pulse. It’s such a good pre workout. And again, I know I’ve had a lot of success using Phoenix as well. Because again, in addition to all believing all the the dogma from the old school bodybuilding magazines and stuff like that, like you also get, they push, you know.

So many supplements on you. So yeah, I took you know, it took everything under the sun and it’s just a yeah exactly I think I used to 

Mike Matthews: spend 

Jordan: like 400 a month. Oh, yeah. No me too. Like I would have 

Mike Matthews: like actually ridiculous 

Jordan: Yeah, it’s just completely and to think it’s like well if I just use that money and but but you know like food I first of all, I wouldn’t need that much food anyway so I’d be saving you know, so much money and it’s just like just get like the stuff that’s Tested and works instead of just the shit that, you know, they say, 

Mike Matthews: you know, basically anything that’s promoted in a, if it’s sold in a retail [00:44:00] location, it’s probably shit.

Unless it’s just like a vitamin D pill or something, you know what I mean? Yeah. If it’s a pre workout and it’s sold in a, in a. In a, in a retail location, you can get much better stuff online with comp from companies like my company that sells direct to consumer because there are too many middlemen in the retail model right now, how it is that you’ll never see great products in GNC or vitamin shop.

You never will because there’s not enough money in it. You have to make that product for, for let’s say it’s 40, which is what people are willing to pay for, give or take. Yeah, that means that, you know, you need to make that product for maybe 4 a bottle, maybe 5 if you’re really generous but that, that’s not enough to do shit.

You can’t make a good product. You can’t make a good anything for 5, a good multivitamin, you can’t make a good pre workout, you can’t make a good post workout, you most definitely can’t make a good protein powder. You just can’t do anything with, with that. So. You know, that, that’s one of the big problems with the supplement industry.

And but you know, I think it’s great to see that, you know, what we’re [00:45:00] doing is, yeah, it’s great for us, but it’s, it’s great to see that that’s happening in other industries too. It’s kind of a disruptive type of business model that, again, I mean, we’re kind of going off on a business tangent now, but people that are listening, this is an opportunity, not just necessarily in supplements, but in anything where if you can get into a position where.

You can cut out the middlemen that need their cut. So you’re, you’re, you can sidestep distribution by going online and sell direct consumer. And instead of being greedy, because what a lot of companies have done, the opportunity to be Legion has been there. It’s not like, it’s not like I just lucked into it right in the beginning.

And this wasn’t, you know, the 1980s and the computing industry or anything. It was just a, it was just like. Well, you had these other companies selling online doing the same thing, but instead of putting more money into making good products, they just said, cool, bigger profits, more lambo. So let’s do that.

You know, really honestly. So, so when I was looking at it, I was like, yeah, okay, fine. Or I could just spend four times as much on making a product and make it so good that no one can copy it [00:46:00] because it will never work in a retail environment. And if you’re going to spend that much to produce your product, you better have a really good you better have something really smart worked out for your marketing advertising because you’re not going to have as much money to spend on that as these other companies.

So, you know, that’s a, if you can find that opportunity in other, in another, in any industry where you go, I can cut out middlemen, I can just then take the money that would be normally given to middlemen and make a better product and sell it direct to the consumer at a, at a, at a good price. Then, yeah, that works.

Jordan: So, yeah, absolutely. And that’s, I can personally attest for it again. I know just having some, like, again, I’m not affiliated with you guys, you know, in any way. So, just having someone, you know, take your supplement stuff. I’m like, oh, this stuff is actually like, this shit works. Like, just that the pre workout and all that stuff.

It’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s helping me, you know, so much better than you see the other garbage that. It’s just like, you used to give me stomach aches. That’s what I didn’t like about it. They’re pretty. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s funny because I know a lot of people, when I talk to them about like their pre workouts that are like, Oh yeah, I used to take, you know, this or that.

I always [00:47:00] give me, you know, stomach ache or I always feel like terrible. Like I feel like death. Yeah. I’m like, that’s bad. Like it’s a bad, you don’t take something that makes you feel that way. Yeah. It’s going to give you more energy, but if you feel like you’re, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, your colon is going to freaking blow out when you’re doing squats.

Like I’m like, that’s your body telling you something 

Mike Matthews: like. 

Jordan: Something’s not right. Just 

Mike Matthews: do a caffeine pill instead. Yeah, exactly. Drink a cup of coffee. Exactly. I agree. 

Jordan: Yeah, so no, but but yeah, so that’s that’s pretty much like again with the supplements and the working out and stuff like that It’s just been Like I’m like like I know like a lot of your stuff It’s it’s always evolving because again new science comes out, you know, new breakthroughs new new research.

So That’s where 

Mike Matthews: I also in some cases, it’s ingredients that like, we’re trying to, like, we’re trying, we’ve been trying for months to put, I want to put one more ingredient in pulse. And I’ve had alpha GPC was an, it was, it was an idea and I had a specific reason why I wanted that. Alcor was another form of quarantine was another.

That they’re still trying was another, but the problem is, and I’m forgetting one. There’s one other one that we tried as [00:48:00] well, and now we’re trying to work tart cherry juice into recharge, but the problem is the taste. It tastes so bad. Like we’ve been, we’ve just been striking out one, one ingredient after another, but we’re working on it.

So. That’s, yeah, I 

Jordan: know. That’s like, I know if you take like a, like a straight leucine supplement, like a powder, it is the worst thing, like, or like a hydrolysate, like, like a, like a whey hydrolysate or something like that. It’s just like, you know, unflavored, 

Mike Matthews: we’re going to come out with an unflavored way from ours.

And I, I, I’m on the same page. Like I’ve had unflavored ways before that were really gross. 

And this unflavored way that we’re going to be releasing, I was actually surprised. It tastes pretty good. I was impressed actually. So. That’s pretty cool. I’ll send you some when it’s available. I’m like, all right, cool.

Just drinking water with, yeah, it’s kind of like mild and creamy. It’s actually pretty good. 

Jordan: Let me ask, like, what was one thing that like, what was one issue or problem or something like that, that you got, you had when you were first starting like muscle for life, like you, like, [00:49:00] what was one thing?

You would say was like a struggle. 

Mike Matthews: There’s always in, in any, in any six business success story of any kind, there’s a bit of serendipity involved, luck involved, of course, hard work and being smart and having a good plan and all that. But along the way you’re going to have, if, if things are going to grow as quickly as my stuff has grown, you’re just, there’s going to be some luck involved for sure.

And I guess in my case, in the beginning where I, there was two things that I, that were, it was just. It was just serendipity. It was luck. One was when I first published bigger, leaner, stronger, there were no other books really like that. And to be fair, that’s one of the reasons why I did it because I saw that and I was looking at what other books, what books were available for, you know, was there a book similar to how there isn’t an app right now that’s really good for tracking your weightlifting and your diet.

It just doesn’t exist. So that’s, that’s what I’m building. So it’s similar with bigger, leaner, stronger. I was like, Why hasn’t someone written a book yet that kind of just breaks down flexible dieting and breaks down really the, the, the, [00:50:00] what, the 20 percent of stuff you need to know to eat 80 percent 80 percent of the results.

Instead, instead we have a lot of these books that are, it’s, it’s marketing nonsense. It’s, you know, trying to pretend like there’s some new breakthrough in weightlifting that is going to change everything or, you know, in, in dieting, you have to eat this way or eat that way or, you know, and so. That was lucky that that was the case because now they’re, I mean, they’re along the way now in the last few years a lot of rip off type books.

I mean, I mean, sometimes in some cases it’s like funny. There was just one guy. So he emails me like he likes my work and you know, he loves reading my articles and he wrote a book and he would. Love me to check it out and maybe endorse it or whatever. And you know, it’s unlikely that I’m going to do that, but just because I get a lot of requests and a lot of this stuff, I don’t know how to let them, like, I have to unfortunately let people down nicely where I just, I don’t agree with what they’re doing or saying or whatever.

And, and, you know, I, I don’t want to be a [00:51:00] dick, but I, I’m just not kind of, I don’t want to endorse things indiscriminately, just. To maybe be able to get a favor back or something. Yeah, no, absolutely. And so, so in looking at the book, so I, but I just looked at it and you know, it was it was basically just bigger than you’re stronger.

Like not, not really, but it was like the, the table of contents was like almost the same in terms of the material covered. Right. So I’m just like, what are you, why, why would you email it? Like. You think I’m not going to notice that in my own fucking book? Like, what are you thinking? So, so there are a lot of books that have come out since that are, you know, kind of knockoff type products and you know, the space is kind of glutted now with books like that.

So if I, if I were coming into the game, into, into this game right now, I probably, I don’t know if I would have, I don’t know if I would write the, you know, any, well, let’s just say there was no bigger than your strong or something else was in its place. I wouldn’t probably wouldn’t write bigger than you’re stronger in the beginning because again like I would be looking for what’s something unique that I can bring to the space.

So [00:52:00] bigger than you’re stronger when it, when it first came out was very unique and that’s why it grew so quickly and got a lot of word of mouth and now it’s just so entrenched. I mean, it has 20. 100 reviews on Amazon. I have sold probably 300, 000 plus copies in the last few years. And, and it just keeps, it just goes and goes and goes.

And because now it’s such a thing that, you know, it just is what it is. So trying to get in and just like trying to go, Oh, I can do that. Or a me too type of product is, is a bad idea. So that was, that was lucky that you know, what, I guess the luck was that what I knew when I wrote the book was exactly what.

Needed to be produced for the marketplace. And, and, and then when I started muscle for life, which was soon after, and, and, you know, Jeremy was involved, that’s when he got involved. Well, no, actually it wasn’t soon after building a stronger was like January 2012 and we launched muscle for life March.

2013. So, so, but when we, when, when we decided to do it in the end of [00:53:00] 2012 and then had it built and launched it and, you know, okay, let’s start. It was much easier then and it grew very quickly. I mean, by the end of the first year, it was, I want to say close to a million visits a month. No, no, that’s wrong.

It was, I have to look at analytics. It wasn’t that it didn’t grow that quickly, but it grew very quickly. 

It was definitely in the hundreds of thousands of visits a month by the end of the first year. Wow. And one of the reasons for that is growing a health and fitness blog, which is really what it is.

Then was much easier than it is now, probably mainly because the space has again become so glutted. It is. Yeah. With, with websites that are doing the same thing and see what the, like my thing also with Legion and with muscle, with Legion and muscle for life is SEO. Like I’m writing for SEO. I don’t care what I want to write about.

I, if, if it doesn’t have any SEO value, I’m probably not going to write about it. And in terms of determining what those criteria are, I mean, there’s, there’s, it’s not complicated, but there’s different [00:54:00] things that are taken into account. But that. If you’re going to play that game, then you’re, you’re going to be competing with people like me, basically that, and you’re, and you have to be able to give Google what they want, which is long form content.

That’s going to be well written. Their spiders can analyze the quality of your writing. They know, like, can this person write, is this person, you know, coherent or not? Like if, if, if someone’s a bad writer and writes. Stuff that’s hard to read and annoying to read. Google spiders can actually determine that to some degree.

So, so you’re going in, so you need to be able to write, you know, 2000 plus word articles that are well written, that people like to read, that get shared around and you’re going to be up against, you know, there’s the whole. Link side of, of, of SEO, which is, I mean, you can’t just go on Fiverr and buy link wheels.

That’s not how it works. You have to know the right people and you have to know what you’re doing and you have to spend a lot of money, not a little bit of money, a lot of money. [00:55:00] So if you, if you want to really be competitive, like if you wanted to do like authority nutrition, for instance, you want to go up against those trolls.

You better be, you, I’m telling you, you better be ready to spend at least 50, 000 a month on links at least. So now that’s not to be discouraging and say, don’t try. But the point is like, don’t, if you’re going to go into. You know, that this space don’t just try to be like, Oh, well I can, I can spin that article.

I can write an article like that. Like, don’t think that’s going to work because ultimately, you know, you need to provide something unique and something different that people are going to latch onto. And again, in the beginning muscle for life was that there weren’t any other sites that even, you know, cited research in the way that I did where made it very easy for people to access.

Like all studies are just linked in. And when I make a claim, you can go see why am I saying that. And so a lot of little things that now are more and more people are doing, but they’re starting, you know, behind the curve and they don’t really know what they’re doing and they don’t have enough money to do it right.

And really try to, you know, write [00:56:00] a build as quickly as they would, they would hope. So those are the kind of like the two main, you know I’d say serendipitous things that have. Put me where I’m at now. And so in terms of challenges or struggles, I mean, I hate to say it, but they’re in my, at least maybe this is also me as a person and my perspective on things like, I honestly think that my life and really any of like modern living is so fucking easy.

Like our lives, it’s, it’s kind of a joke, how, how easy and how good we have it and not, not because I make some money or anything that anybody, even somebody that would be at the poverty level if you look at around the rest of the world, How people live. Oh, yeah. Like, come on. We have it easy as fuck. We, you know what I mean?

We don’t start, we just go to a store and get food and we can access the world at our fingertips on our phones. So, you know I, I’m never, I’m just not one to complain about things much, but, but in terms of, I guess, so, you know, it wasn’t like a big struggle, like, oh, this is so hard. It was more just doing the work.

And [00:57:00] so, you know, initially The challenge really is, I guess, I mean, for me, I kind of didn’t care and I just did it. So it wasn’t so challenging, but the reality is I’d say for anyone else. For, for the sake of anyone listening or if you to answer your question, the challenge would have been if the, the amount of time that it took, there wasn’t, it wasn’t like a, Oh, I work smart.

I don’t work hard. 

Jordan: Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: Like it was. And that’s still the case. I mean, my work schedule hasn’t changed all that much. I worked maybe on average when we started a little bit more, maybe five hours more. A week, maybe 10 max, but you know, I still work on average about 60 hours a week, a low, a low week is 50 hours.

And sometimes it’s more than 60 so that there was just no way around that. So, you know, I, in the beginning, So Jeremy and I saw we have something, we have potential and we had seen in the beginning, we could build this out, we could build up this website, I could write more books. We could, we could do supplements [00:58:00] because we even then knew like there is an opportunity to do good supplements and to actually do the stuff that again, that’s the story of Legion.

Like the stuff that we would have would wish other companies would make, of course, you know, we could do that kind of thing. So we saw that in the beginning, but we had to take it one step at a time. So then it was just, it’s just the, the, The grind of showing up every day and putting in the work, whether you feel like it or not.

And, you know, it’s not a matter of like, Oh, well, I’m just lucky because I’m so passionate about what I do that I can just say, that’s not even true. Like, yeah, I have passion for what I’m doing, but it doesn’t mean that every day I’m super excited to do every task that I have to do. And I just discount personally, you know, it’s not a matter of like, Oh, well, I’m just lucky because I’m so passionate about what I’m doing that I can just say, that’s not even true.

Like, yeah, I have passion for what I’m doing, but it doesn’t 

Jordan: mean that every day I’m 

Mike Matthews: super excited to do every task that I have to do. And I just discount personally, Emotions and feelings. I just don’t really care how I feel about things like I can turn that off for work. That’s very true Yeah, I try to be less of a robot in People but I do not care how I feel about things when it comes to work in fact I don’t even trust my feelings [00:59:00] like I joke I was just joking with Jeremy today that in some ways like My, I, I, if certain feelings that I have about things, it’s almost like that tells me that I should just do the opposite.

Does that, you know what I mean? I see that a lot also with just out there. Like people are like, they’re feeling, they want to just sit there and watch Netflix for three hours. They should do the exact opposite. They feel like they don’t want to go in the gym because they should do the exact opposite and go to the gym.

They. Feel like they want to eat the 19 pizzas. They should do the exact opposite. You know what I mean? Yeah. It’s almost like there’s a point where I like the, the, the war of art. Yeah. War of art. Yeah. Steven Pressfield a lot. It’s a book. And I don’t know if you’ve, if you haven’t read it, I highly recommend it.

And he kind of talks about like the, this internal resistance that we have in us that just is in there to just get in our way and fuck up our lives basically. And the more you, and this is kind of coming back to that kind of idea that like whatever it is, the, the, the obstacles that we put in our, in our own way, if you can just, [01:00:00] With, it takes self discipline and it takes self control, but if you can, you know, beat them enough, it just becomes then much easier and much harder for life and random stuff to derail you because I mean, I’ve experienced this personally where now I have such a routine where I know exactly what I’m going to be doing tonight and there’s no way that I’m not going to be working on what I’m going to be working on and that’s just a fact.

It’s like every day, you know what I mean? It’s like going to the gym. You know, you’re going to the gym every day unless, okay, fine. Things can happen here and there. But so as you start to get more and more certain in your, in other areas of your life, in your routines, I mean, that’s been very helpful to me.

So cultivating that in the beginning was a bit of a challenge, just that, you know, I, I guess as a, as a person I never, I’ve never taken any kind of personality tests, but I would, I would, I would. Expect that I probably have a bit of an introvert and I, there are aspects of me that are extroverted and they’re definitely, there’s a part of me that’s more of an [01:01:00] introvert where I don’t have any problem being by myself and just doing what I’m doing and I don’t care what other people are doing.

I don’t, I don’t feel like I’m missing out on anything. I don’t give a shit if there’s a party tonight. I don’t give a shit if there’s a dinner and I don’t give a shit if there’s a birthday party, whatever. And if, if I’ve decided that’s what I’m doing, you know what I mean? So, you know, I don’t know that, that was maybe the only thing that, that other people, cause then, you know, people are going to hear this and they’d be like, Oh, what, that, that’s so sad.

What a sad way to live. Honestly. Like I’ve had people, I’ve had people and I don’t even, I don’t even get offended. I’m not going to like say, Oh yeah, fucking money or whatever, you know what I mean? Cause that would be like the standard response, but like, yeah, well he’s being a millionaire said just make it rain.

So that’s, that’s not, that’s not even the point. But, but the point is you know, for me, and, and this is another book that I recommend, I’ve recommended it many times. So it’s just cliche for me to even recommended it, but it’s a book called flow. And it’s it’s all about, you know, that. The, what are the, what are the best experiences that you’re going to have in your [01:02:00] life?

In a lot of cases, they’re going to be when you’re in this flow state, when you’re doing things, something that’s fully engaging and you know, you lose track of time and it takes you know, you have to, you have to exercise skills and you get immediate feedback. And so, you know, it, it talks about that concept applied to different areas of life.

So for me. That’s, that’s just very, I don’t know, that’s, that’s true for me. And that you, you can have flow experiences in work, you can have flow experiences in relationships and, you know, whether it be with girlfriends or wives or boyfriends or husbands or whatever, or friends or as many different ways you can experience flow.

But for me, I, I, I’ve tried to. I try to spend my time doing things that produce that feeling just because I’ve, I like it. So, you know, in a lot of cases, my work is a flow type of activity for me. And so I tend to gravitate toward that just because it’s enjoyable, truly enjoyable for me. And then of course it produces, you know, it’s, it, it produces things outside of just my own [01:03:00] emotions.

So yeah, I mean, I know it’s kind of a long answer, but that’s, that, that is really, you know, in the beginning that was, that was the only challenge. And then I can say going forward, the challenge has been just, just having to persist through all kinds of bullshit, like, and you know, and, and, and then, and then learning the lessons of that, you know, Don’t hang on to don’t work with people that aren’t really competent, that aren’t really professional, that don’t really do a good job.

We’ve had to learn that lesson, just be kind of too nice with people, not, not people that I’ve hired in that work with me in the office here, but like external type people that would provide different services and, and, and being too. Friendly about it. You know what I mean? And I, I have, there’s a point where like, I’m a nice guy up to a point.

And if there’s a, once I, you know, that I just had to lower that a little bit. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like take a little bit less shit, especially when I’m paying a lot of money. You know what I mean? Yeah. And because if you’re not, Yeah. [01:04:00] Unfortunately with certain people, it’s just the way they are.

If you’re the one that is if you’re not, they’re, they’re going to go out, they’re going to just take care of the noisiest people first. And if you’re not making a bunch of noise, then that you’re, you know, you’re not as much of a problem. 

Jordan: Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: So, so we had to learn that. And. And just, you know, as we get into more stuff when projects have very long runways which like, for instance, the new legion website was a ton of work.

That was a lot of work. And, or, or doing a book or something like that. We’re just learning to. And it’s really just kind of a discipline of focusing just on the task that’s right ahead of you and don’t, you know, don’t, don’t think, don’t let the, the, the enormity of the entire thing weigh on you and just demotivate you.

You know what I mean? So I’ve, I, that’s also something that was a challenge. And then just something, you know, Jeremy and I had to learn is just like, okay, fine. Yeah. It’s going to be all this work and we have all these problems with this thing right now, but what are we going to do right now today? What’s the next step [01:05:00] and then just doing it and no matter, it doesn’t matter.

You know how it doesn’t matter how we feel. Just start. What’s the next, next task. Cool. Start doing it. All right, great. And and then eventually. After doing enough of these little tasks, look at that, the whole thing is, is done. And then now you’re super happy. And so that, that’s been important just as a, as a, again, it’s almost like a skill that you can, that we’ve learned at least.

And because the things that are really worth doing take a lot of time. 

Jordan: I mean, 

Mike Matthews: that’s just the way it is. I mean, especially in business, you know what I mean? Business is like most businesses aren’t shit in their first five years. They’re just, they’re just, they’re just not. 

Jordan: Yeah, no, you’re right. Yeah.

Right. And that’s a, no, you brought up a lot of really good points. Like I said, like I’m like in my professional life, I’m a project manager. So, you know, I noticed, you know, again, like everything that you said is spot on with, you know, how to cultivate, you know, kind of learn. Again, I’ve been on both sides, you know, learning that, you know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so to say, or, you know, it’s just so but no, that’s, that’s definitely, that’s, [01:06:00] that’s really cool insight coming from again, like, like, like a start, like a startup and, you know, how you guys have said such success so far.

And just kind of seeing that, that evolution of, you know, putting out articles to now you’re, you know, all the books and supplements and, you know, who knows, you know, the app and all that other stuff that you guys have kind of in the, in the, in the works right now. But yeah, no, that’s, that’s, that’s so cool.

Mike Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been a good ride. It’s been, it’s going well. And I think also there’s something last thing I’ll say on that or something we said for just keeping in what worked. Early on now. So like, yeah, I mean, some, a lot of people in my position, honestly, they, they wouldn’t spend time answering emails.

Absolutely. Yeah. They wouldn’t, they wouldn’t bother with that. I mean, they, there are things that a lot of things, I mean, that I don’t have to do, like even, even this podcast, like I don’t have to do this podcast. Absolutely. I don’t, I don’t have to make YouTube videos at all. A lot of things that, you know, I, I probably, I could start writing one article a month.

I could start writing one article every two months and exactly, and then just push, you know, more of the supplements and just be like, all right, I’m good and [01:07:00] just ride and just, you know, and just be like, Oh, that’s good. So you know, but that’s one, I mean, I’m just not that I’m not, I have no interest in like retiring or trying, I, what do I, I like working when I, what can I say?

I don’t want to go hang out on the golf course. I actually don’t want to, I could, if I wanted to, I don’t want to. I don’t do it because I, I mean, I’m here because I want to be here, you know what I mean? But also then with people, just maintaining that level of service is something that, you know, in the early on before there was anything before it had any real financial impact in my life.

I saw the, the, the personal impact of it and was like, that’s cool. I just want to keep doing that. And you know what I mean? And then I didn’t actually even realize in the beginning how big of an effect. It, it, it has, it’s like ultra ultimate compounding goodwill almost. I didn’t realize that I experienced it, but in the beginning that wasn’t even like a master plan.

It was just like, yeah, people would like that. Like I think it would be cool if I could write an author about, you know, I read his book, I could write him and get a real response to a question. That’d be cool. 

Jordan: Yeah, 

Mike Matthews: absolutely. And, but it turns out to [01:08:00] be like, Oh, now I’m reading this book from this bestselling author.

That’s all about kind of just that. Like that’s so far, that’s the message of the book is like. Yeah, be a human and be helpful. Yeah. That’s revolutionary. That’s revolutionary? Okay. 

Jordan: Yeah, right? Because in the world that’s getting, you know, highly Hold on a second. I’m just plugging in my iPad here. In the world that’s, that’s totally you know, very, you know, computer driven and you know, non personable and stuff like that.

Those who, you know, again, take the time and actually that’s what one thing that’s kind of one of the reason why I was like, Oh, this is, you know, this is legit. That’s could have been one of the reasons why, you know, I stuck to it subconsciously because the fact that I knew that there was like a human on the other side of, you know, that email that would be like, Oh, you know, let me help you out.

Or, you know, do this instead. Or, you know, try that or any question that I had. Which, which, you know, which definitely 

Mike Matthews: helped and you know, this, I think is a great example of how just a small micro example of, of just how capitalism works like that for the good of everybody, because now it’s becoming more of a thing, not just, not just in fitness, but I mean, you’ve probably seen it customer service [01:09:00] in general is becoming more of a thing and, and as companies realize that it’s profitable.

They’re like, Oh yeah, we want to do more of that. And so regardless, I mean, even if that was their only reason for instituting something that is customer service oriented, like what we’re talking about now, this kind of thing in the beginning, but the effects that it has out in the world are great. So I, you know, I think it’s just, it’s encouraging to see in airlines and food companies and, you know, I see it all over the place now, it’s just becoming more of a thing.

To actually respond to and be helpful and not just think of every transact, every, every interaction as a transaction or, or as a, as a, as a chance to make money. You know what I mean? Like, Oh, there are a lot of people I remember in the fitness space when I was first starting, where, you know, if you’d email them a question, they would, most would just be like, Oh yeah, that’s a good question here.

Buy this and it’ll answer it for you. You know what I mean? When instead of like, It, it didn’t, would’ve taken a minute, actually any more time [01:10:00] to just answer the question. Almost. If it’s like an, let’s say it’s a yes, no question. Should I do this? Yes. No. Be like, oh yeah. You here by this? Yeah. like just sprinkles and preach on it.

You’ll be great. You could’ve just said yes and then I would’ve been more likely to buy your thing. 

Jordan: Yeah, I know. Because it’s to 

Mike Matthews: support you. ’cause you’re like, yeah, actually being helpful. Yeah. And not asking for anything and just being like, so, you know, I, I like that also just because I think it’s, I think it’s, it’s in a way it’s the, it’s just the right thing.

It’s, I don’t know, treat people the way you want to be treated and it comes back in a karmic way or whatever. You know what I mean? Absolutely. No, you’re a hundred percent right. That’s awesome. Cool, man. All right. Well, we’ve gone on for an hour now. We could sit and talk all kinds of random shit, but this has been great.

Hopefully everyone will like it. I think they will. And and then, you know, if you’re listening, go on you can email me or reach me however you know how to, you know, social media, whatever, or drop a comment on YouTube. That’s the only, by the way, the area that I’m not good at responding because YouTube’s comment management system sucks so bad.

It’s so [01:11:00] inefficient. I hate it. I do try to pop in and answer questions, but so if you, if you’ve gotten, if you, if you’ve left comments on YouTube videos and I haven’t responded, that’s why, because that be, I’d have to spend like three hours a day, just on YouTube, answering comments to actually answer everyone.

Whereas when you comment on a blog post, I have it set up. So I get an email and I’m able to manage it much more efficiently. That’s why I can respond to all blog comments and still not just sit and answer. You know, comments all day, cause I have to do other things as well. But let me know if you like the, like this idea, I was thinking of doing a podcast like this with, you know, someone like Jordan once a month and talk about their experiences again, not just with my programs, but more as a whole and just let the conversations go where they go, basically is kind of the idea.

So let me know what you think. And thanks for taking the time, Jordan. No problem. Appreciate it. And yeah, I mean, anything, anything you want to add before we sign off? 

Jordan: No, I just want to thank you guys again. And like, like I said, in my, in my success story, you know, there’s going to be days where it sucks.

You know, when you’re, when you’re reaching your goal, it’s the [01:12:00] struggle. That’s, that’s what makes. People who they are like you could see how my is Mike explained, you know, starting his business and all that It’s there’s gonna be hard days. There’s gonna be really good days But you know The fact is that you just put the work in every single day just do you know to stay on the track and just stay Focused I kind of like notes the grindstone You know, you’re gonna you’re gonna get where you want to get, you know regardless and and you know I’ve used that aspect in every every form of my life now and just to kind of get You know, working towards anything.

So yeah, I’ll be a plow horse, not a show horse. Yeah, or be both. You know, but yeah, no. So I just want to thank you again. And of course, you know, again, I don’t know how that would work if anyone had any questions for me or something. I know like people on facebook If 

Mike Matthews: you want to 

Jordan: give your twitter or facebook, if you want people to come find you, I mean, if there’s a common thing on this, I mean, that’s probably I’ll check it out and I’ll troll a little bit.

So I mean, again, like I know. Yeah. So, I mean, just thanks again. And I appreciate the opportunity, Mike. Okay. Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: My pleasure. 

Jordan: [01:13:00] All right. Take care. Cool.