Ep. #1042: How Liz Lost 38 Pounds and Got Fitter Than Ever In Her 50s

Mike: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Muscle for Life. I am Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today for another installment in my success story series of episodes where I speak to. Normal, everyday people who have used my work, sometimes it’s a book they’ve read, sometimes they have signed up for my one-on-one coaching service, which is the case with today’s guest.

Sometimes they’ve just read articles and listened to podcasts and put my teachings into use and gotten good results and reached out to me and shared their. With before and after pictures, and I feature these guys and gals have been doing this since the beginning. I have thousands now over on my blog, [email protected], and I also invite the occasional success story to come here on the podcast and share their story with all of you, my dear listeners.

And so in this episode, you are going to hear from Liz, who nearly gave up on her fitness goals before finding me in my work because she had tried to. Achieve a certain body composition and level of fitness for so long, a couple of decades, if I remember correctly, at least 10 years, if not 20 years. I’m recording this intro about two weeks after I did the interview, so I don’t remember the exact details, but I remember that she describes trying one fad diet and exercise routine after another for a long time.

Lose some weight, gain it back, lose some weight, gain it back, and so she was about to give up. She is in her fifties and she thought that she just didn’t have the genetics or didn’t have the discipline or the. To have the body that she really wanted, have the body that she would be most comfortable in, that would fit the clothes that she wanted to wear, the way that she wanted to wear them and wanted them to fit, and the type of body that she wanted to see in the mirror that she felt was representative of her, of her better qualities.

And fortunately for Liz, she did not give up because she found me in my work and she ended up signing up for my one-on-one coaching program. She lost 38 pounds with her coach, and she gained muscle, she gained strength. And in her own words, she said it was easier than any other program she has tried. And again, she had tried many programs over many years.

And so I was Liz’s last resort. I was her last ditch effort. It was. Give up or give this Mike Matthews thing a try. And in an almost poetic outcome, uh, in instance of life imitating art, in a true act three type of ending, Liz mustards up the energy and mustards up the motivation to make one final assault on the citadel, and then miraculously breaks through and against all odds, defeats the villain who has been hunting and haunting her for as long as she can remember.

And hooray. Anyway, a little bit dramatic. I know, but as you will hear in this interview, that is how it felt to Liz and understandably. When you hear her story, and finally, if this interview resonates with you and you want to learn about my coaching service and see if it is a good fit for you, especially if you’ve read articles.

You have listened to podcasts, you have watched videos, and you still just aren’t sure what to do, how to put all the pieces together, how to make it all work for you. Or maybe you know what to do, but you are struggling to stay on track. And if that’s the case, and if you would rather just have an expert take you by the hand, give you everything you need to succeed, everything you need to build your best body ever.

Custom diet plan, custom training plan, exercise technique, coaching and form checks, emotional encouragement, accountability, and the rest of it. You really should check out my coaching service because my team and I have worked with over 3000 men and women now of all ages and abilities and chances are we can help you the same way we have helped them.

We can help you reach your fitness goals. Faster than you ever thought possible. And so to learn more about my coaching, just head over to buy legion.com, B U I L E G io n.com/coaching, and you can check out how it works and some of our featured success stories. And then schedule a free consultation call where we can get to learn about you, your circumstances, where you’ve been, where you want to go, what you can do, what you cannot do, and see if this service is a good fit for you.

And again, that URL is buy legion.com, ui legion.com/coaching. Hey Liz, thanks for taking the time to come talk to me on my, uh, my podcast. Hi 

Liz: Mike. It’s pleasure. 

Mike: So we’re here to talk about you and talk about your fitness, your health, your journey so far. And where I usually like to start these discussions is can you tell me and, and tell the listeners where were things at before you found me and and my work.

Where were you at in your fitness? What did you tried? What was working? What was not working? Why were you still looking for solutions? And then from there, I’m curious to hear how you found me, how you found Legion and how things have changed since then. 

Liz: The journey probably started at nine. I think I was on my first diet at nine.

Not that I really needed to lose weight, but my sister that is four years older than I am was on a diet. Therefore I had to be on a diet. I was following everything that she was doing. 

Mike: Nine and 13 already dieting. 

Liz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and she didn’t need the diet either, but you know, it was the era of ultra slim models.

And so I think that started the, the journey of obsessing about food and weight and, and that kind of thing. So I’ve probably lost the same 10 to 25 to 30 pounds over and over and over my entire life. So I, I kept looking because I had to find a solution because it has been the, uh, you know, it’s, it’s been the, the struggle of my lifetime.

Seriously. Body image. Uh, and just, just not feeling comfortable. I was almost at the point of giving up, to be honest. I’ve never been obese, but always overweight and uncomfortable. Yeah. Tried everything You can imagine. You show it at me. I’ve tried it. Spent money on pills and books and programs and gyms and all of it.

And I was just about to give up, but I love to read. So I was on Amazon and through some research, saw the book, thought, oh, that looks interesting, ordered the book. I thought, Hmm, interesting. It wasn’t even scratching the surface of the book. Then I started looking at your, you know, your bio and your background.

Then I started to look at Legion and the supplements and that kind of thing. And then through your website I saw the link to the free call. For the coaching and I thought, well, this is crazy. I said, no, you know, very 

Mike: skeptical. You, you should be . I mean, that’s everybody getting into fitness, be very skeptical of everybody and everything.

Unfortunately, that’s the appropriate mindset. 

Liz: Exactly. So I thought, hmm, yeah, why would this be any difference really? I thought to myself, why would this be any different? But I had done enough digging that my gut was telling me, there’s something different here. There’s something that maybe I should give a chance.

So I filled out the survey and I had a call with Cody and it was like having a conversation with a friend. He was very generous with his time. There was no pressure. He answered my questions. He got back to me, he shared his journey. I wanted to see his journey, see if he was just a salesperson, or if he had actually gone through, you know, are you, are you just talking the talk or did you walk the walk?

Right. And, and I was on the cusp of not joining because I had dental surgery coming up and, you know, I was busy at work and there’s, you know, I was right in the middle of Covid. I thought, ah, you know, eh, the gyms are closed. Whatever. All the reasons were good to say. Mm. Timing is wrong. There’s never a perfect time to do anything.

So I took the point, 

Mike: it’s like when people are trying to figure out when’s the perfect time to have kids, like, I’m sorry, , there is no perfect time. You just, there’s a point where you just gotta jump 

Liz: and, and this was kind of it too. And I thought, well, it just seemed different enough that I thought I’d give it a try.

So when I joined, I figured I wouldn’t join for three months because you can do anything for three months. So I joined for six because I wanted it to stick, and it’s going to be two years come June, and I’m keeping on because I absolutely love my coach. And as much as I had been through a lot of programs, I might have gotten so far by myself, but I never would’ve been able to accomplish what I have with my coach.

Jamie Pearson’s, my coach, she is absolutely amazing. I was really concerned about age bias. I was afraid to be paired with, uh, a young 20 year old that had, you know, no life experience, no, never had any weight issues and, and that kind of thing. And it was very refreshing to have her as a coach and, and to continue to have her as a, a coach.

It’s a privilege. She’s very knowledgeable. She’s, she’s encouraging, she’s realistic. She listens to what I, my feedback and, and what I’m struggling with or what have you. And anybody who’s, who’s, who’s been through any kind of a diet or, or a struggle with weight, knows that. There is no magic bill. There is nothing perfect.

You have to show up and do the work. Right? And your, your little black, little black book of motivation, you’ll say, well, yeah, that’s great. You’ve, you’ve planned, but are you ready to do the work? And I was, the beautiful thing about having a coach is that, um, the accountability is, is really wonderful. That in itself, there were many times throughout the journey, nothing was perfect, right?

So I had my, my, uh, dental surgery before I started, then started the program. I didn’t even have all the equipment I needed to get started. I had no idea what, what a squat rack was. I had no idea. Like I was really, even though I had done some weightlifting, very limited, lots of different things that I started and stopped over the years, but I really didn’t have all the tools I needed.

But it was. Cody had said, well, you know, I gave him a list of what I had and Jim wasn’t an option for Covid. Everything was closed and it ended up being the best thing ever because I’ve been able to lose 38 pounds all at home. I even met 20% body fat. I’ve, I’ve gone down 16% body fat since I started. My back squad is, is at 115 pounds.

That’s 50 pounds more than when I started. And my deadlift is, uh, at 130 pounds. And, uh, my bench press is at 94 pounds, you know, and I had no idea where to even start. Whether I could even put a plate on the bar because I had no idea where to start. That’s where I was at, and now it’s, and it, it’s been amazing because I, I started, I did P90X at some point, which, you know, probably everybody else has.

I was so sore the first night that I did p90x. I couldn’t wash my hair. I could barely wash my hair. I couldn’t get my hands up. And with this, I never had any excruciating pain. And I push myself. I really do. And it’s, it’s just because, you know, you’re taught the proper form and, and, uh, I love the apps. I love the, uh, you know, the technical videos that you can go back to anytime to review the form and that kind of thing.

The app, it’s been, it’s been great. Honestly, Mike, it’s been really, really great. And it’s probably been, I’m not saying there’s no effort, but it’s probably been the easiest thing I’ve ever done in terms of a program. So 

Mike: much. I wanna, I want to pick up on, on, uh, on all this, that, uh, so many good points that you’re making here.

Uh, you mentioned, Age bias. Do you feel comfortable sharing your age with people listening so they know or reason I say that is because Well, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll stop talking . 

Liz: Sure. Yeah. I was hoping you wouldn’t ask, but I’ll, I’ll share anyway. If you 

Mike: don’t, you don’t have to if you don’t want to. I just. 

Liz: No. No.

I, I can’t, I can’t. I’m 58 years 

Mike: old. So what you’ve done is fantastic. And even just your body composition. Oh yeah. You just, you know, I’m just 20% body fat and I mean, I, I’ve heard from many, many women over the years, in their forties, fifties, and sixties who have come to believe, and it’s usually because they’ve been told by others.

It, it’s like they’ve been programmed to think that because they’re no longer 20 and because maybe their hormone profile isn’t what it once was, for example. Um, that it’s too late to, to really get into shape. Yeah, you can, you can make little improvements and you can exercise for your health, but it’s too late to want to look, let’s just say, even athletic, just to have an athletic look.

So I just, I, I, I love that I’m talking to you because. . This is just one of, one of the many counterpoints that I’ve seen over the years that it’s never too late. And so if you are comfortable talking with that, I, I wanted to go straight to just asking you if there were any challenges that were related to any of those things or, I mean, if you’re speaking to your peers, you’re speaking to other women who, let’s say are 40, 50, 60 years old listening and who have been very discouraged because like you, they’ve tried many things in the past and they’ve, they’ve come to believe that it’s just something that’s wrong with their body at this point, and they can’t really do much about it.

Liz: Yeah. Well, I, I tell them that’s a myth. I have hypothyroidism. I only have half my 

Mike: thyroid. That’s okay. That’s a real thyroid condition. Which is important because I’ve heard from many women who have seen a chiropractor or even just like talked with some guru online who has, you can’t even use the word diagnosed, who has told them, oh, it’s probably that you have a thyroid condition.

No medical diagnosis, no actual problem. It’s usually a prelude to some weird diet or some weird supplement they’re supposed to take to fix it. But that’s a real thyroid condition. 

Liz: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I also thought going into this, how much. Could I possibly accomplish given that? So it’s a myth, like it or not, I that, and you know, when I, when I looked at what the program really was, Mike, I thought to myself, what is different here?

What, how, how can this be any different? How can it work any differently? So, yeah, I was even skeptical. And, and of course I went through the whole, I mean, I was addicted to buying diet books. It. Let’s, let’s try something else and let’s try something else. And while you’re trying something else, well, you know, you’re throwing caution to the wind and saying, I’m gonna start something else, so I may as well just go ahead and eat and not exercise.

And you, you know what I’m saying? It’s that, that old madness that comes with, with, and like I say, I wasn’t that overweight, but still 38 pounds as significant. But that was as heavy as I had ever been. But the madness, whether it was 10 pounds, five pounds, or 20 pounds or 30 pounds, it doesn’t matter. It was the same madness.

So when I saw this, I thought, eh, eh, can’t be any different. But it is. And I think, I mean, the reason why I’m doing this, Mike, is, is I’m a very private person. So it’s a testament to you and your company and your coaching program. And I think the most refreshing thing was when I saw my meal plan before starting, it was sort of like, oh great, here we go again.

Chicken, vegetables, steamed. Yay. Wow. And I thought this is going to be, You know, so I went through that whole process again of saying, oh, here we go again. But I, you know, if that’s me, I, I’m just tenacious. And I figured, okay, here we go. But then, then the beauty of the flexible dieting, when I finally understood what that really was, it was freedom.

And it remains freedom. It doesn’t mean that you’re eating, you know, junk food five days a week or three times a day or anything like that, but nothing’s off the table. You can eat whatever you want as long as you’re eating well most of the time, and you’re fitting into your macros and your, your, your calories.

Nothing’s off the table. And that is just freedom. It really is. 

Mike: And, and, and it’s kind of counterintuitive. It can sound counterintuitive to people who haven’t gone through the experience that you have because the idea, they think of anything related to numbers like calories or macros, whether it’s planning or tracking or, or even paying attention to, they equate that with restrictive dieting.

But of course, uh, I would argue, and you’d probably agree that it’s far more restrictive to try to follow a diet that has a bunch of rules and all the things that you can’t eat and the only things that you can’t eat. And it’s more liberating to have some boundaries that you can operate within. But you can, you can do a, basically whatever you want within those, uh, boundaries.

And there are only a couple, maybe non-negotiables and a little, the rest of it is. . 

Liz: Yep, exactly. And that was 

Mike: the key. And so would you, would you, would you say that that contributed the most to your ability to break this previous yo-yo cycle that you had gone through so many times? I, I 

Liz: would say so. I eat more now than ever, I think, and I weigh less than I have ever.

So yeah. It’s, it’s really, it’s still a little mind boggling to me as to how the science works, but I would really. I would like to thank you for doing the deep dive into the science because you know, as cliche as it’s going to sound, it is life altering. It has been for me and I’m grateful to have found your work and your company.

It, it’s a gift and, and I’m hoping if I can inspire one person to take a chance on you guys, cuz that’s really what I did. I took a chance because I was ready to just say, eh, I’m done with this. But, uh, but there was enough there to, to take my interest and give it a shot and I’ve never looked back and I will never go down that road again.

So, and it’s easy to, it’s easy to sustain. And 

Mike: that’s the key. It needs to be, it needs to be because it needs to be a lifestyle, not a 30 day challenge or even a 90 day transformation. It really just needs to be a lifestyle. 

Liz: Yeah. And you know, my motivation throughout my, my, you know, twenties and thirties and so on, and even as a teenager was really vanity.

But now my, my motivations are different. I’ve had high blood pressure. Uh, I don’t take many medication anymore. Uh, there’s heart disease in my family, osteoporosis, uh, obesity, lots of different things that are precursors that genetically I’m predisposed to. So for me, I just want to be. Strong. I, I just want to be strong and healthy as I age.

And of course they’ll look good. Of course. , 

Mike: I was gonna say, there’s nothing wrong with a little bit of vanity like part, that’s part of the reason why all of us do this. And there’s, there’s, there’s no shame in admitting that. 

Liz: No, no, no. So, uh, so that’s been great. And I think the, the other thing that’s been, Great for me too is you don’t have to be perfect all the time.

You know, I had challenges with my coach, but Jamie and I make a great team. She was always there to, and she’s still there to help me through things, right? So I had a dental Sur another dental surgery in between where it would’ve been really easy to quit, but she worked me through. You know, lead up the recovery time and then how to ease back into things without losing too much, uh, momentum or muscle and, and that kind of 

Mike: thing.

Can you share some detail? I mean, that, that’s a challenge. So I guess there were two surgeries. Any other challenges that you had to overcome that or just specific to you and what you were doing 

Liz: during the program? Absolutely. Um, nothing’s in a straight line, right, Mike? Uh, things go, you know, life throws you curve balls and so on.

Uh, yeah, I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knees, so we had to adjust for a period of time while I had a flare up. Um, because that was new, wasn’t something I, I was aware of. And, uh, so yeah, we worked through that and then, you know, that would’ve been a really perfect excuse to say, Hey, I’ve got bad knees.

I can’t do, I can’t do vax squats anymore. I can’t do this, or I can’t do that. And, uh, I think that our, we’re our own worst. We’re self-limiting technically. And, uh, I have carpal tunnel syndrome. Um, you know, other people would say, well, gee, I can’t, I can’t lift weights. I got carpal tunnel syndrome. Oh, sure you can, 

Mike: you know, , and not only that, but if you do your strength training properly and appropriately, it’s going to improve those conditions, not make them worse.

Now, of course, there are certain conditions that that would preclude you from doing certain things or, or certain things would be contraindicated, of course. But to your point, strength training on the whole, it, it can be made to fit really anybody’s circumstances if with a competent practitioner and whatever they have.

Strength training is just good for what ails you as the saying goes. Mm-hmm. and have you experienced that? How, how are your, how are your knees doing? How is your carpal tunnel. . 

Liz: Good. Excellent. Yeah. Even, even during flareups, I, you know, we just, just adjusted things. That was all really, and I’m stronger than I ever have 

Mike: been.

And that alone, of course, is good for your joints. Having stronger muscles is better for your 

Liz: joints, period. Absolutely. And for me, it’s, it’s also a question of, for my bones, I, I just want to be strong as I age and to continue to be able to do everything that I’m able to do now. And you, 

Mike: you’re, you’re, you, you mentioned with your body composition, your metabolism strength training does wonders for that too.

So I’m not surprised that you feel like, or, or even, you know, the numbers that you’re eating more food than in the past or consistently eating more, yet you look very different. You know, the combination of, I’m guessing in the past you weren’t eating as much protein. That’s usually the case. So shifting some of those calories, but then also that regular strength training just gives your body something else to do with calories, then store them as body 

Liz: fat

Exactly. Exactly. And we chose, uh, we chose five days a week for lifting, which is still the goal. I don’t make the mark all the time. I mean, while I was cutting the first cut, certainly, uh, I. Like a bulldog. I was just really on target. 

Mike: I mean, you, you taste blood for the first time and you start to see it and you, and then you just want to see more.

I understand. 

Liz: Yeah, exactly. Now we’ve been through sort of a, a lean bulk, very conservative, lean bulk because I didn’t wanna gain a lot of fat. We’re doing another cut, just, uh, a little mini cut and then we will, my goal is really to gain more muscle now, but the nice part about it, and I, I think the thing that’s key f especially for those that are maybe thinking on embarking on such a journey, is that you don’t have to be perfect.

Mike: And what did that look like for you? What do you mean when you say that? 

Liz: Well, consistency is key. I think that that helped me a lot to just say, you know what, you don’t have to be perfect. You’re gonna have days where, you know, you lose a few reps here and there, you don’t feel like it. Now I’m at the point where, you know, my, my husband 30 pound deadlifts, sometimes I’m thinking, man, weights are getting heavy.

This is, you know, do I really feel like doing this? And, you know, you just get started, you know, you do your warmup sets and, and you just get into the groove. And once you’re done, you feel like a million bucks and you’re happy you did it. And it’s not that big a deal. And you don’t have the, I’ve never had the aches and pains that I thought I’d have lifting this kind of weight.

I just don’t. It’s pretty amazing. 

Mike: Ironically, many people find that the aches and pains more often come if they have to take time off or after a few weeks of not training, that’s when their knee starts to bother ’em a little bit or their back starts to bother them a little bit, and then they get back into the, into the habit of training and then, and then no problems anymore.

And you know, pain is kind of a mysterious thing. The, the science of it’s very complicated and they’re, they’re still trying to, there, there still are many questions about how it works, but one, one theory, it’s probably still the prevailing theory last time I looked at the research, is that strength training can, can raise our threshold of, of pain perception.

So the, there’s something that that could. Pain, something is not quite right, doesn’t mean there’s a major problem, but something is not quite right. And if, if we were not doing regular strength training, the threshold of of pain would be enough that, or, or it would be low enough that we could perceive it.

But by training regularly, we just kind of raise that threshold and then we’re just, we just don’t feel it anymore. And that is though, in a, in a healthy and productive way, rather than taking drugs to mask the pain. Exactly. So that’s, that’s, that’s pretty cool. And, and again, counterintuitive. 

Liz: Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. I, it still amazes me. How 

Mike: did you deal with the, the surgeries and having to, like, did you miss some time? 

Liz: The one prior to wasn’t that big a deal because it was before the program started. So the one in between I probably, maybe a week and a half kind of thing. . Not too, too 

Mike: bad. No. And so then you were, you should, you, you probably were able to more or less pick up where you left off if, if you were only off for a week and a half, I’m guessing.

Yeah. 

Liz: I mean, in a week and a half is surprising. You, you do feel a bit of, you know, you, you figure, uh, can I pick up the same weights? You’ll lose a few reps. But yeah, for the most part it was just, uh, a hiccup. But without the coach, I think it would’ve been, it would’ve been a lot harder to be consistent.

Even now, I find, and I, I’m a fairly self-motivated person and a self-starter, but, but even at that, there are times where life and fatigue and, you know, sleeplessness and, and you know, over time and you name it, there’s, there’s always something that, that sort of throws you a curve ball. And, uh, it, it, it’s just a lot easier with a coach to work through it and keeps it refreshing.

And the, the part that’s really nice. By having a coach. The recipe’s laid out for you. Show up, 

Mike: do the work. That’s one of the, that’s one of the, the, the biggest benefits of my coaching and any, any well-designed coaching service is just that, just all the thought and all the work is done for you. You just follow the plan.

If there’s anything that doesn’t work for you, you let your coach know it’s their job to make it work for you. You don’t have to go read, you don’t have to go watch YouTube videos. It’s not your job to face, it’s their job to figure it out. It’s your job to do it and to enjoy it. Those, that’s all you gotta do,

And if you, if you’re not doing it, that’s a problem. If you’re not enjoying it, that’s a problem cuz we need to make it so you can enjoy it. But it’s 

Liz: doable. It’s, it’s doable and it’s sustainable. That’s the, uh, That’s the nice part about it. 

Mike: So are you still training at home? Yeah. So, so, you know, I’ve just heard from many people over the years who some people, they like training at home by themselves.

They just like it. Many people though, find it harder to be consistent and to stick to a regimen if they’re training at home because they don’t really like it because they’re by themselves, because there are other things they could just go do instead. What has that been like for you? I, 

Liz: I really like it.

There are zero excuses. I have everything I need here. And, you know, the fact that I, I really don’t have any, I mean, I have a treadmill. I never unfolded it once the entire time that I’ve been on this program. Not once. I mean, the squat rack was essential once I understood why I needed it. And, uh, you know, I bought a little bit of equipment.

I bought a decent bar and, and some plates and, you know, I, I bought what I needed, you know, bought myself some decent shoes so that I, you know, instead of having runny 

Mike: shoes, you’re like, you’re a proper weightlifter. , 

Liz: yes. Yeah, it should be a proper weightlifter, but I love it from that perspective. I don’t have.

I don’t have the excuse to say, oh, I’m coming home and then I gotta go back out. Um, I live in the country, so, you know, nothing’s really close. And for me, I’ve got everything I need. And yeah. No, it’s not hard to be motivated at all, but somebody might say, well, you know, don’t have a gym. Don’t you know what all the excuses are good if you want it.

Yeah. There is some work. It, it’s not as consuming as some of the other programs I’ve done. Far 

Mike: from it. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve said before, just asked this kind of rhetorical question like, to, to people. It’s still in that cycle of making excuses, finding reasons to not do something is like, do you need more motivation or do you just need to decide that not achieving your goals is simply not acceptable?

Like, you gotta reach that point where you just go, it’s, I, I am not okay with not making this happen. So I just have to figure out how to make it happen 

Liz: and, and the beauty. You guys have figured it out. You did the deep dive, you did the research, you found the recipe, you’re sharing the recipe. All we have to do is follow the recipe and, and you know anybody who’s gonna, because I thought to myself I would never count calories ever again.

That was So you had tried 

Mike: that in 

Liz: the past? Oh sure. Oh, absolutely. And it just about drove me crazy. . 

Mike: Interesting. Can you, can you talk about that? I’m curious, uh, what specifically about it made it different than the flexible dieting approach? Well, 

Liz: the interesting thing is, you know, over the years, as you know, because I’ve been reading about this stuff, I can’t remember when I wasn’t reading about this stuff.

And so we went to the low carb and the low fat, and then the high fat and, you know, the, the change of this and that. And then, oh, well, you don’t have to count calories and, and you can eat as much fat as you want and, and whatever. And like it or not, that’s not true. So for me, the thought of having to count calories, that was almost a showstopper for me.

And yet when I started to realize just how many, how much fat I was consuming just by putting cream in my coffee in the morning. So the point of it is you have a decent scale. Once you get the hang of things, you, you have a pretty good idea of what you’re eating. However, if you are not measuring. And weighing you have no idea what you’re eating.

Even if you think you’re eating well, you just don’t have a clue. And so it’s not hard once you get into the swing of things, but it’s essential. It is essential. 

Mike: Yep. I mean that’s, that’s, that’s a, a common denominator of basically everybody I’ve spoken to over the years who has gone through a similar experience that you have is that the weighing and measuring for a period, not that you need to do it forever, but doing that for a period.

Was, gave them a eureka moment and helped them understand why so many things that they tried in the past didn’t work. Because to your point, it’s just the idea of what a proper portion of anything was was grossly distorted. And once they understood the principles of energy balance, then connected that to, well, what does that really look like in actual food?

And then they start to understand like, oh, so this is what, you know, 1500 calories looks like this is what 2000 calories looks like. I would’ve thought 2000 calories looks like 3000 calories, you know? . 

Liz: Yeah. Yeah. It, it’s, it’s pretty crazy for sure. Like I say, it, it’s uh, it’s simple. There is some discipline required to it, but it’s not, it’s not life al uh, life altering in, in the sense that how many programs was, oh, I have to have this in the fridge.

I gotta go shop here for this, I gotta cook this, I gotta have this for breakfast, gotta have this for lunch, and oh, I gotta prepare for tomorrow. It is exhausting. It is exhausting. And I did it for years and decades. Decades. So you, you start, you’re all pumped up to, to start something, and then you get, you know, a little bit of success and then you get deflated and it’s not sustainable.

Mike: And out of curiosity, because you had tried so many things in the past, do you remember, I’m just genuinely curious, what about Legion and my work and the presentation just gave you a little bit of hope that maybe, maybe this is worth pursuing? Because I’m sure in some ways it looked like something else you had tried before, like just another one of these, you know?

Yeah, 

Liz: exactly. The success story certainly helped. I had seen some of those before. Of course, the talk with Cody was, was really, really good. But I think what really did it for me, to be honest, is when I looked at the, at your, your website and I went to the coaching section, there was a guy, I don’t remember what his name was.

I don’t know. I would say he might have been in his forties. Nothing special about him in the sense that he was a guy. You’d think I’d relate more to. A woman. However, his testimonial was kind of what pushed me over the edge to make that call. And like I say, I had read, you know, I, I did a pretty deep dive into your stuff and, and, uh, and I didn’t even finish reading the book before starting to be honest, because I thought if I wait for that, I’ll never get started because there’s always so much to do.

Mike: And, and you can kind of just shortcut, you can kind of skip like, you know, again, that’s, that’s a a, a good little quote unquote hack for learning anything quickly is if you can get good coaching. It’s fun to read books, but it’s faster to get good coaching. It 

Liz: is . And, and that was it for me. I think it was, I didn’t wanna do the thinking, I didn’t wanna do the calculating, I didn’t wanna figure out what I had to eat.

I didn’t want to try and figure out what equipment I needed at home to get this done. And, I needed some help. I figured, you know what? I’ve tried enough things on my own and that hasn’t worked, and this seems different enough that I figured I’d give it a shot and here we are two years later. 

Mike: Makes sense.

I mean, uh, it’s, it’s something that, um, if you want to learn any new thing, even if it’s, uh, just a hobby, looking for coaching right away is, is not a bad idea. Cause again, you find a good coach, you can save yourself so much time and so much frustration. And you know, that’s something that. I even look for, you know, if I, if I wanted to start playing tennis.

So I, I think it might, that might be fun. I absolutely would immediately just find a good coach and start working with a good coach, uh, before I would even read anything. Cause I don’t, I don’t know if I even am gonna like tennis enough to wanna read a tennis book, but if I work with a good coach, I know that every hour spent with him could be as valuable as 10 or 15 hours spent on my own or,

Liz: Mm-hmm. , I’ve learned so many things. Like, there were things that where I thought I was stuck that I’d never be able to lift another pound. You know, she helped me to, with, with Versa grips, for example, and micro plates. And, you know, five pounds at some point for me seemed impossible. I had no idea about micro plates.

I had, you know, and there are times where you’re just discouraged because, you know, you figure, well, you know, I’ve probably gone as far as I’m gonna go. And, and, uh, you know, the, the phone calls are, are just great. And, you know, the video reviews and, and the progress reviews are just, uh, really, really helpful.

Extremely helpful, like my coach is, she’s, she’s amazing. I think we make an amazing team and uh, I’m not ready to give that up. I’m having too much fun and learning a lot at the same time. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. Do you wanna transform your body but you just can’t seem to break out of the rut? Have you read books and articles, watched videos, listened to podcasts, but still just aren’t sure exactly how to put all the pieces together for you?

Or maybe you know what to do, but you’re still struggling to stay motivated and on track and do the things that you know you should do? Well, if you are nodding your head, I understand getting into great shape is pretty straightforward when you know what to. But it’s not easy. It takes time, it takes effort, it takes grit, and that’s why I created my v i P one-on-one coaching service.

We take people by the hand and we give them everything they need to build their best body ever. We give them a custom diet plan, training plan, supplementation plan. If they want supplements. You don’t have to take supplements. We coach them on how to do every exercise correctly. We give them emotional encouragement and support, accountability, and the rest of it.

And we are pretty good at it too. We have worked with thousands of men and women of all ages and abilities and lifestyles and help them build a body they can be proud of. And guess what? We can probably do the same for you. Our service is not for everyone. But if you wanna find out if it is right for you, if there is a fit, head on over to Muscle for Life.

Do show slash vip that is Muscle, f o r Life show slash vip and book your free consultation call now, where do you want to go from here? You mentioned, uh, a little mini cut, but what do you see in the next like year or even three years? Do you have some, some goals that you’ve set for yourself? The goal 

Liz: is really to, to gain more.

Yeah, I just, I just wanna be really strong as I age. That’s really the goal. And healthy also. Right? So, um, of course there’s a little vanity in there too, so I’d like to be a little bit more cut still. But, uh, so we’re, we’re, you know, doing the balance between, you know, switching back and forth to, to to achieve the goals, but that’s it.

Yeah. 

Mike: That the body fat trap. It’s, uh, it’s funny, I’ve joked that the, the, the problem with, with getting really lean is then anything, but that always feels a little bit too fat. Yeah. I hear you. You just have to know that that’s the psychology of it, and everybody wants to learn it for themselves, and I know you’re gonna go learn it for yourself, but just know, and, and as lo, as long as you’re ready for it and you can laugh about it, you’re okay as long as you don’t take it too seriously.

But everyone gets afflicted with the, the curse of getting very lean if they do it. 

Liz: Yeah. I’m already there. I’m already there. For sure, for sure. Because now, now I’m not saying I, I, you know, I’m just saying if I’m not at where I was at my leanest at the end of the first cut, then it’s sort of like, eh, yet it’s all, it’s all up here because.

You know, I, I, 

Mike: yeah. It just, it only matters. Like, it’s, it’s funny because if you, if you were to like show a picture of you at that point and then a picture of you now to somebody else, they might be able to, if you were to like, tell ’em No, no, really look, like if you look right here, they would be like, oh, yeah, yeah, I guess I can see what you’re saying.

But, you know, you know, so it’s, it’s really kind of just us, uh, staring at, in the minutia of our physique. Uh, but again, as long as you can laugh about it, I think it’s, there’s nothing wrong with it. 

Liz: So, yeah. So maybe just, I, I, I really like the muscle definition without being crazy about it. So, you know, like it or not, if you have a little bit less body fat, you’ve got more, more definition.

Mike: And also people, you know, you have to find, you have to find the look that you like. I find that there’s, there’s probably a bit more variation in that with women than men. Many men tend to just kind of go in the direction of. The bigger and leaner I am, the better period. I can never be big and lean, uh, and, and lean enough.

However many women they like, they like how they look at, let’s say 18 to 20% body fat. That’s what they like. Uh, they like that look. And then other women though, they actually prefer how they look at 23 to 25% body fat. And so it’s just also learning your preferences and, and then, Not having to quote unquote feel bad.

That’s, that’s your preference. There’s nothing wrong with that. Versus, again, so long as we’re in the, the spectrum of what’s healthy, it’s finding what’s aesthetically pleasing to you and just do that. Yeah. 

Liz: What’s been refreshing for me as well is my coach gets it, her journey was similar to mine as well, and so that, that was really 

Mike: nice as well.

Yeah. Yeah. It, um, it’s something that I just think of, again, a lot of, a lot of emails that I’ve answered over the years and, you know, I’ve heard from many, many women and, and, you know, I, I always have done my best try to empathize, but it’s different when somebody has gone through it and you can really speak to the.

Person. I mean, it’s, you can tell them the things that they are thinking because you were there, you were that person. So I understand that cuz when I wrote Bigger, leaner, stronger, initially I was writing that book to like a 17 year old me. I mean, that was really, that was the person I was writing to. And there just happened to be a lot of other 17 year old mes that had the same, you know, inner monologue and had, had the same problems and blah, blah, blah.

And so it’s, it’s really great to get somebody who understands you. I, I wanted to, I wanted to follow up on the thyroid situation specifically, because that is often used as a, as an excuse or, or, or people are again, they. Convinced that because of that, there’s simply no hope. So can you just share with, with people how, how you’ve been able to deal with, with that situation?

Clearly it’s not getting in the way of your fitness, and I mean, I, I just wanted to follow up on that because that, that’s a big one. There are a lot of women in particular who have been convinced that if they actually have a thyroid condition or maybe they have a thyroid condition, and because of that, their metabolism is now so depressed that there’s no hope.

Liz: I’ve probably had hypothyroidism for 15 years now, and, uh, re they removed half my thyroid about 15 years ago, so maybe a little bit longer than that. Maybe more like 20 years and 15 years ago, they would’ve, uh, removed half my thyroid. And, um, I mean, you, you need, certainly, you can’t live without your, your thyroid hormone, so it has to be regulated.

But once your numbers are stable, that’s no longer a reason for being stuck, so to speak. And in my view, it’s two simple things. You’re eating too much, you’re not moving enough. It’s as, it’s as simple as that. And it sounds like the usual calories in, calories out and, and, and all that good stuff like everybody else says.

But there’s a lot more to it than that. But your recipe is simple. And like I say, I still don’t fully understand why it works, Mike. And, and to be honest, you know, you were also a reason why, you know, I looked at your, you know, your original picture that you were showing of you as, I don’t know how old you were, maybe 17 at the time.

Mike: Yeah, I was probably 18, I think. I was like, mate, max 19 lifted weights for a year or something. 

Liz: Yeah. But anyway, and then you showed another picture where you was, you were seven years in and you thought, you know what? I’m eating right. I’m at the gym seven days a week. I should be more cut than this. And, and, and then, you know, your, your ultimate picture of where you are totally ripped.

And I thought, okay, here’s a guy who’s done the, the research and the science, and you did the deep dive and, and, uh, kudos to you because that’s a lot of work. I know, because as much as I’ve read everything and tried everything, I, I didn’t do the, the scientific, you know, deep dive like you did. But I’ve tried everything and, uh, you found the key and I thank you for that.

Oh, I’m 

Mike: flattered. I mean, and also I’m really a desk for sure. I, I, I always try to give credit to the, the people who I learned from. I mean even, even the scientists who did the research and then I was just the guy who came along and started to read it and say, Hey, well this makes sense. And, uh, why isn’t, why isn’t there a book like Bigger Leader Strong?

Why isn’t somebody just put this information into an easy to understand book and let’s, let’s get rid of all of the marketing puffery and let’s not claim this is something that it’s not. Or invent some pseudoscientific new breakthrough angle, which unfortunately another gimmick. Exactly. And unfortunately that if we’re talking about book publishing or just let’s just say information publishing in any format that is.

The gatekeepers, so to speak, are looking for if you don’t have the one liner that promises something new in breakthrough, the, the one weird trick or the one thing they are not telling you, it’s hard to, to get any, uh, of the gatekeepers to give you any time. And that’s one of the reasons why I self-published the book in the beginning was I knew that and I didn’t want to argue with agents, or I just wanted to put something out there that I thought would fill a need.

And so, you know, I’m, I’m flattered, but again, I, I have to give credit to, to many other men and women who, who did a lot more hard work. And I, and I was the kind of the curator, so to speak, you know, but 

Liz: it’s made such a difference for me that I, it is a game changer. It’s a life changer. And I’m not saying that.

And, and, and hopefully for you, I, I’m, Personally thanking you for that because it’s changed my life. I’ve ch I’ve, you know, everything and, and I’m just gonna say this, your, your company is refreshing. Customer service doesn’t exist anymore, and you guys are right up there. There is no one like you guys out there.

I’m talking about fitness or otherwise. Anything you claim to do, you do when you set a hundred percent money back guarantee. I tried your genesis. It makes me sick to my stomach. I, there’s something in it, uh, an ingredient and I tried it several times. I c I can’t take it. I had bought two, they were on sale.

You guys gave me my money back, no questions asked. You know, you asked why cuz you wanna learn from it. But, um, I just love your ethics and uh, I commend you for it. 

Mike: Well, thank you. And, and I’m glad to, to hear. You have, uh, put our money back guarantee policy to the test because it is that simple bully views and, and, and that’s just, I just don’t understand why more businesses, I mean, we’ve talked about, we could go off on a whole tangent on businesses.

I just don’t understand why more businesses don’t go, really go out of their way to deliver excellent customer service. It’s such a weird phenomenon, and I agree with you. I’ve, I’m not a big buyer of things in general, so, so even as an infrequent consumer, other than like random little things I just need off of Amazon.

But in terms of other businesses, uh, and, and so even as an infrequent consumer, I could probably rattle off five or 10 just kind of weird interactions I’ve had with businesses where it, it almost seems like their policy. Is to err on the side of, of treating their customers badly. Like if you’re not sure what to do, just just treat your customer badly and assume they’re trying to rip you off and assume they’re full of shit.

And it’s really, really strange. Now, I’m not gonna, of course, I’m not saying that’s most businesses, but I do think you’re probably right that a lot, there are a lot of businesses out there that just do not prioritize customer 

Liz: service. It it’s a thing of the past. Customer service is a thing of the past.

And, uh, people hide behind the internet. They hide behind voicemail. If you try and call, you guys have been, your staff is amazing. I’m, and I’m not just talking about my coach. Cody’s been wonderful. Everyone that I dealt with, whether it was me wanting to add something cuz I forgot something to an order that I, I made online and I thought, oh geez, I forgot to order this.

So I picked up the phone hoping that I could get it before you guys got it out the door. And, uh, you know, everybody, it appears like everybody who works for you has been through the program, which is wonderful. Yeah. And uh, you know, it’s, it’s just like talking to a friend when you reach out to you guys.

It’s, and, and I’m not saying that for the heck of it, I don’t endorse anything. I seriously, I, I don’t, don’t endorse much of anything. So for me to take the time to do this, it’s because you’ve made a real difference. You’ve made a real, real difference. 

Mike: I really appreciate it. And that’s, that’s, um, from, from the beginning, that’s been our intention with customer experience, with customer service in, in particular.

And Ben, our policy is go out of our way, make our customers happy, almost to whatever it takes. Now, could there be a scenario where somebody is making really inappropriate demands? Okay, sure. Has that ever even happened? I don’t even know. I, I, I can’t think of any, any time that that has happened. But as aside from that, it’s just do whatever it takes to make them happy and to exceed their expectations and to create that effect where they’re like, wow, that was actually really good customer service.

I was not expecting that. 

Liz: No. And, and actually I, you know, I, I called back to thank Cody at some point to just say, you know what, thanks man for, you know, giving me the opportunity and, and. I, and he didn’t nudge me. I’m not saying that, I’m just saying he, he helped me to, to, to see that there was something different here.

And that’s been, it’s been wonderful. And, you know, for those that are probably saying, oh, you know, she’s probably getting a kickback or whatever, or No, you never know. Right? You never know Mike. Right. So, you know, and, and in your book, a lot of people will say, well, you know, do you, do you have to take supplements?

So when I started, I, I was zero supplements because I thought, eh, when you’re starting any kind of a journey, the weight’s gonna start to fall off as soon as you start to do something different. So I kinda waited until things started to slow down a little bit, because the numbers start to slow down after a while.

So then I started the Phoenix and. I’m not taking it now. I took it for my first cut. And, uh, love your, your, your protein powders. Love your pro. You know, the, the variety is just amazing. However, I have a question for you. When are you gonna open a warehouse in 

Mike: Canada? It is a good, it is a good question. I know.

I, I, so, so we just opened up Amazon UK so we can serve UK now Canada is number two on that. That was number one simply by demand. And then Canada is number two. And the only reason we haven’t done it yet is, uh, the logistics unfortunately was a bandwidth problem. Right. Um, you know, we have, there’s, there’s about 80 of us, uh, half full-time, half part-time, and.

We’ve just had to prioritize it. I mean, it’s good to have an abundance of opportunities of course, but we’ve had to take things one at a time. Even though I’ve, I’m the kind of person who just wants to do everything all at once, but that, that gets, that gets messy. And so only in the last six months or so have we really started to focus on international and getting our international markets set up properly.

When we get off this call, I’m actually gonna call somebody and cuz I know that Okay, good. Amazon, Amazon uk. We’re manufacturing our products over in the UK as well, which we may need to do in Canada, which just adds another layer of logistics. But because Canada’s closer, obviously I’m not sure that that was the case.

I remember there was a problem about sh there was a problem, uh, uh, with shipping things from here to Canada and, and when you start figuring. The, the economics of it all the way to the end, there was a problem. But, um, it certainly can and, and it will be done. I just, I, I don’t have an immediate answer.

I’ll look forward to it. I’ll look forward to it as well. I mean, that’s, that’s a, a straightforward plan for expansion. That’s like, you know, we’re not, we’re not in any retail locations and yes, there’s a big opportunity, uh, in retail. However, there also are big risks in retail. Uh, retail’s very expensive, especially if you want to do it right, and it is not growing nearly as quickly as the e-commerce, uh, sector.

And so, To continue to expand Legion, I’m much more interested in just going after international distribution and international, just e-commerce, getting it set up so people in Canada can get inexpensive shipping, fast shipping, and elsewhere. We have, you know, um, Australia is another place that would make a lot of sense.

And so that, that is our, our current plan is, uh, maybe dabble in retail, but at a small level, independent stores. But I’d rather spend my, my resources on e-commerce in different areas in the world where there is enough demand to warrant 

Liz: it. Of course. Yeah. For us, I mean, one of the things is really, you know, exchanged and, and the.

As well and the time to get stuff too. So what I do is I, you know, you guys are on sale. I stock up and it’s 

Mike: good. That’s what a lot of, I know that’s what a lot of international I and that, and it’s a great idea. Like a lot of, I know that we have quite a few customers international they’ll wait for, so they know that our biggest and best sale of the year is our Black Friday sale.

We always do a lot of discounting and so some people, they order their entire years worth of supplements that they want from us, you know, and save a lot of money. And then sometimes they get hit with some, with some duties or whatever, but when it all shakes out, it’s reasonable. And that’s it. , 

Liz: exactly. Exa So I didn’t mean to put you on this spot.

Mike: No, no, no. It’s a good que It’s a good question. I, I wish I, I wish I could say, That, uh, it’s only a month away, but it is on the list. We’re totally aware of it. There, there we, we do get a fair amount of, uh, website traffic from Canada. I saw a fair number of books in Canada. There’s certainly enough demand.

It, it was just, uh, UK because then. By getting set up property in the uk, we can also serve Europe. And so when you combine UK and Europe, that, that definitely was like number one in terms of quantity of demand. Yeah. Yeah. And, and one other comment just for people listening who, um, are in business or want to get into business.

So there are a few reasons why Legion is, is doing well, but this customer service, this emphasis on customer service is one of them. And we see it a lot in word of mouth. We see it a lot in returning customers. We see it a lot in customer lifetime value. So if, if you were to look underneath the hood of, of Legion, some of these metrics are much, much better than industry average.

And that’s partly because I would say our, our products. Much better than just industry average. However, again, customer service is much better than than industry average. And so just, just for, for anyone listening to, to be specific, so last year, uh, we, we grew the top line about 36 or 37%. Legion grew sales about 36, 30 7% last year.

And I know that, um, so I’ve heard from several manufacturers, I’ve heard from an insurance company who works with a lot of, uh, sub sports nutrition companies that a lot. My competitors. A lot of people in sports nutrition over the last couple of years have not seen much growth, have been flat or even in many cases down a little bit.

And so the, there are several reasons why we are the exception, but customer service is one of them. So even if my competitors are listening, treat your customers better and your business might do better even if it’s not in my own personal interest to give you this advice. It’s just good business . 

Liz: It is, but it’s, it’s a dying art, right?

Mike: You ha You have to be willing to invest in it though too. Like you have to be willing to, it costs money to make customers happy, to put the whole machine in place. And when, when the people are looking at the spreadsheets and they’re looking at how to maximize profit and they see numbers in customer, eh, you know, whatever.

Just delete that. 

Liz: And yeah, it’s a mistake. It’s a mistake, but it, but I have to say that everything you’ve promised everything and then some you’ve delivered on everything. 

Mike: Well, I’m glad to hear that cuz that’s the intention that, that’s how I think business should be done. Everyone makes mistakes, but you should always do whatever you can Exactly.

To deliver what you promised. I totally agree. 

Liz: And you have so kudos to you and your company for that. That’s amazing. Yeah. 

Mike: Thank you. Well, and thank you for the support and thank you for, for doing this interview. I’ve taken up about an hour of your time. Now. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that I, that you wanted to say or that I should have asked?

Uh, 

Liz: I don’t, I don’t think so. I, I, I’m just hoping that if I can inspire one person, if I can just inspire one person, and that’s my goal. That was the whole goal of doing this. It’s not for, Hey, look at me, I did this, but if I can do this at my age, with the ailments I have, with the, you know, hypothyroidism and, and, uh, 

Mike: the history of, of getting to that point also where you, you were about to give up.

I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s powerful because there are a lot of people out there who feel the exact same. 

Liz: and why was it gonna make a difference? And people will probably say, oh, I can’t afford coaching. Or, well, if I look at all the money I’ve spent over the years on pills and magazines and books and products and promises and just, just the life sucking energy, if I wish I had known this years ago, I would’ve saved myself.

Even with doing coaching, I would’ve saved myself thousands and thousands of dollars. So it’s, there’s a way, there’s a way you have three levels of, of coaching. Something will fit for somebody. You’ve got some for novices to experts. So you know what? All I can say is hopefully if anybody will take this as a, if I can do it, you can do it.

It sounds so cliche, but it’s true. And you know what, Mike, it’s been life changing for me. It just has. So thank you again. 

Mike: I’m flattered and I, I’m, I mean, this is, this is why I got in. This is why I wrote a book 10 years ago and, and then just kept on going to the next thing because I kept on getting cool feedback from people saying, Hey, this is really useful.

Uh, you should do more. All right, I’ll do what’s, what’s the next thing? And here we are. And, and just to comment on, on the price of, uh, okay. You spent money on, on all these things in the past and, and it’s also worth considering there, there’s, there was, I’m sure a lot of frustration, upset, uh, The years of trying things, failing, trying things, failing.

And what would it have been worth to you to not have to experience that or to just put an end to that alone? Where now, and, and I know what this is like personally, where once you’ve put the pieces together and you understand how this little machine works, you then you just know, oh, I, I’m never gonna worry about my body weight or my body composition ever again.

Like all of that is done. I’m never gonna be up at night stewing over. 

Liz: Yeah. Finding another book, finding another solution, trying to, you 

Mike: know. Yeah. Or thinking maybe, maybe it’s me. Maybe the common denominator of all these failures is me. Maybe it’s just me, which isn’t even an irrational thought. It, it’s not true in this case, but, , 

Liz: but I mean, you get to the point where you say, well, maybe it’s just not possible.

You know, maybe the, the combination of me and, and life and whatever, it’s just not gonna happen. And yet I was ready to give it another shot. There was just something in my gut that said, there’s something different here. And I was pleasantly surprised. Amazed, to be honest. So, so I hope. That I’m, I know I’m not the only person who has said these wonderful things about you, and I’m not saying it to flatter you.

I’m just honored to have the opportunity to thank you personally. I just hope that you don’t get blase with how your work really makes a difference. 

Mike: Yeah, I appreciate that. And it’s good for me because a lot of my work is, you know, I kind of sit here in my little cave and I work on the next article or the next book, or with Legion, you know, there are a lot of, uh, just kind of mundane routine things that, you know, you gotta do.

Uh, even though again, I have, I have a lot of good people and I’ve been able to delegate a lot of that kind of stuff. But it’s, it’s always nice to connect with somebody individually to see that. Again, it’s just a nice reminder that I’m not only doing this for my own entertainment or , or, or even worse would be just money.

I mean, that’s, that’s funny. When I was younger thinking about what was I gonna do, the idea of just having a business and kind of like selling widgets for a profit, even though I actually have more appreciation now for. Building a business. And, but, but at the time, that concept was so uninteresting to me.

Uh, so it’s nice to just, to have the reminder that again, this is, yes, this is, this is really why I’m doing what I’m doing, uh, more than any of the other maybe rewards that it 

Liz: provides. Well, it, it’s life altering, so thank you. Absolutely. 

Mike: Well, um, thanks again for, for taking a shot on me and, and on Legion and for your continued support.

And of course, keep up. Keep up the good work. You too. 

Liz: you 

Mike: as well. Hey, I’m working on the next, I’m working on the next book. What’s, what’s, 

Liz: what’s the next book? 

Mike: So, um, go, I haven’t talked much about it because it’s probably not gonna be ready until next year, but the, the concept is a daily reader style, something different because in thinking about, okay, so I have, I have bigger, leaner, stronger for men.

Really the target market is probably men aged 18 to 45. It’s really like kind of the target market for that book. And Thinner, leaner, stronger is kind of the female version of that. Now I have Muscle for Life, which is perfect for, let’s just say 45 plus. Even people younger for sure. But I really wanted to, I wanted to really make that specific kind of market it specifically to 45 plus men and women.

And so I have that, I have a cookbook. I could do more cookbooks, which I’m interested in doing. So just thinking about what do I want to do? I thought it would be interesting to do a daily reader, uh, format. So, you know, one, one short chapter per day. Do a, a mixture of educational and inspirational content or motivational content and, and break that educational content down into different, um, categories or buckets like some, make sure that there’s some diet stuff in there, some exercise stuff in there, some body composition stuff in there.

Some kind of just general health and fitness supplementation. And then the mindset is the other category, right? So like, Educational, it’s 50% educational and then 50% mindset, inspirational slash motivational, basically. So that, that’s the basic concept. So I have, I have essentially the second draft done.

So the first draft, you know, you just get all your ideas down, second draft, revise it. And now, uh, I’m in the beta reading phase, so I’m working with some beta readers, getting feedback as I go through it. It’s kind of turning into the third draft. And then I may do one more round of that. I probably will.

And then give it off to work with some editors to get it ready for publication. And this one I’m going to self-publish, uh, muscle for Life. I pu I, I did that with, uh, Simon and Schuster. This one I’m gonna self-publish because I’m gonna do a workout journal to go with Muscle For Life with Simon and Schuster.

And they don’t like to do too many things at the same time. But I’m tentatively. Excited about it in that I’m just very curious with the workflow and when, when the book comes out or when it’s closer. I’ll kind of get into some of the details for anybody who’s interested about how I went about doing it.

I’m just curious to see how the book is received, because I’ve. I’ve done a lot of work to try to engineer the content to be maximally impactful, pretest a lot of things with social media and do do a more extensive beta reading phase with the goal of getting writing a book that that is gonna, is gonna generate a lot of highlights.

Like when people are reading, there’s a lot of stuff where they’re like, I like that. That’s useful. I like that. Because ultimately what makes a book do well ultimately is word of mouth. You can have a great title and you can have a great cover and if you have a following, you can get enough reviews to, to get momentum, but to sustain momentum and sell well.

Which for me at this point, it’s not about the money. That the money of selling the books doesn’t really matter. But if I wanna write a book, I want it to do as well as possible. I want as many people to read it as possible. So to, to sell. Well, especially. Over a long period of time, you have to generate word of mouth for every reader they have to get you, let’s say, at least another reader, or, you know, if you can get that to two or whatever for a period, it becomes exponential.

So it’s also kind of an experiment. I, I guess I’ve tried to kind of apply the scientific method to like writing this book and see if my hypothesis, uh, bear. Fruit in the end. And cuz if it does do well enough, it doesn’t have to like explode and become a new number one New York Times bestseller. But if it does well enough, it’s a format that I like.

I think it’s interesting, the, the essay format, it’s just a little bit different than all the writing I’ve done for many years. So, you know, it’s kind of new and interesting in that way and it’s something that I could continue indefinitely so long as I have new things to say. And that’s a, uh, that that short kind of essay daily reader format is, is a perfectly.

I mean, there are, there are writers who only wrote, that’s all they ever did was write essays because that’s what they liked to do. And not that I would never go back to a long form book, but anyways, that, that’s me, Ram me rambling about this book. But , I look forward to it. Thank you, uh, work, working away on it.

But, uh, anyway, again. If, if there’s nothing else that you would like to share, then we can just wrap up. 

Liz: No, I think that’s it for me, but, uh, thank you again. It’s been an amazing journey. 

Mike: Yeah, absolutely. No, I, I, I love it. And for anybody listening who’s gone through it, You understand how meaningful it really is.

So it’s, it’s cool. It, it really is. Cool. Um, so thanks again, Liz. Keep up the good work and let me know. Yeah, you can always reach out to me. I’ll give you, uh, an email address. Uh, you’ll put it in the chat here when we’re done. You can reach out to me if you ever, you know, want to for any reason. Sounds good.

Liz: Thank you so much. 

Mike: Well, I hope you liked this episode. I hope you found it helpful, and if you did subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don’t miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you.

And if you didn’t like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have, uh, ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike muscle for life.com, muscle f o r life.com, and let me know what I could do better or just, uh, what your thoughts are about maybe what you’d like to see me do in the future.

I read everything myself. I’m always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Muscle for Life. I am Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today for another installment in my success story series of episodes where I speak to. Normal, everyday people who have used my work, sometimes it’s a book they’ve read, sometimes they have signed up for my one-on-one coaching service, which is the case with today’s guest.

Sometimes they’ve just read articles and listened to podcasts and put my teachings into use and gotten good results and reached out to me and shared their. With before and after pictures, and I feature these guys and gals have been doing this since the beginning. I have thousands now over on my blog, [email protected], and I also invite the occasional success story to come here on the podcast and share their story with all of you, my dear listeners.

And so in this episode, you are going to hear from Liz, who nearly gave up on her fitness goals before finding me in my work because she had tried to. Achieve a certain body composition and level of fitness for so long, a couple of decades, if I remember correctly, at least 10 years, if not 20 years. I’m recording this intro about two weeks after I did the interview, so I don’t remember the exact details, but I remember that she describes trying one fad diet and exercise routine after another for a long time.

Lose some weight, gain it back, lose some weight, gain it back, and so she was about to give up. She is in her fifties and she thought that she just didn’t have the genetics or didn’t have the discipline or the. To have the body that she really wanted, have the body that she would be most comfortable in, that would fit the clothes that she wanted to wear, the way that she wanted to wear them and wanted them to fit, and the type of body that she wanted to see in the mirror that she felt was representative of her, of her better qualities.

And fortunately for Liz, she did not give up because she found me in my work and she ended up signing up for my one-on-one coaching program. She lost 38 pounds with her coach, and she gained muscle, she gained strength. And in her own words, she said it was easier than any other program she has tried. And again, she had tried many programs over many years.

And so I was Liz’s last resort. I was her last ditch effort. It was. Give up or give this Mike Matthews thing a try. And in an almost poetic outcome, uh, in instance of life imitating art, in a true act three type of ending, Liz mustards up the energy and mustards up the motivation to make one final assault on the citadel, and then miraculously breaks through and against all odds, defeats the villain who has been hunting and haunting her for as long as she can remember.

And hooray. Anyway, a little bit dramatic. I know, but as you will hear in this interview, that is how it felt to Liz and understandably. When you hear her story, and finally, if this interview resonates with you and you want to learn about my coaching service and see if it is a good fit for you, especially if you’ve read articles.

You have listened to podcasts, you have watched videos, and you still just aren’t sure what to do, how to put all the pieces together, how to make it all work for you. Or maybe you know what to do, but you are struggling to stay on track. And if that’s the case, and if you would rather just have an expert take you by the hand, give you everything you need to succeed, everything you need to build your best body ever.

Custom diet plan, custom training plan, exercise technique, coaching and form checks, emotional encouragement, accountability, and the rest of it. You really should check out my coaching service because my team and I have worked with over 3000 men and women now of all ages and abilities and chances are we can help you the same way we have helped them.

We can help you reach your fitness goals. Faster than you ever thought possible. And so to learn more about my coaching, just head over to buy legion.com, B U I L E G io n.com/coaching, and you can check out how it works and some of our featured success stories. And then schedule a free consultation call where we can get to learn about you, your circumstances, where you’ve been, where you want to go, what you can do, what you cannot do, and see if this service is a good fit for you.

And again, that URL is buy legion.com, ui legion.com/coaching. Hey Liz, thanks for taking the time to come talk to me on my, uh, my podcast. Hi 

Liz: Mike. It’s pleasure. 

Mike: So we’re here to talk about you and talk about your fitness, your health, your journey so far. And where I usually like to start these discussions is can you tell me and, and tell the listeners where were things at before you found me and and my work.

Where were you at in your fitness? What did you tried? What was working? What was not working? Why were you still looking for solutions? And then from there, I’m curious to hear how you found me, how you found Legion and how things have changed since then. 

Liz: The journey probably started at nine. I think I was on my first diet at nine.

Not that I really needed to lose weight, but my sister that is four years older than I am was on a diet. Therefore I had to be on a diet. I was following everything that she was doing. 

Mike: Nine and 13 already dieting. 

Liz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and she didn’t need the diet either, but you know, it was the era of ultra slim models.

And so I think that started the, the journey of obsessing about food and weight and, and that kind of thing. So I’ve probably lost the same 10 to 25 to 30 pounds over and over and over my entire life. So I, I kept looking because I had to find a solution because it has been the, uh, you know, it’s, it’s been the, the struggle of my lifetime.

Seriously. Body image. Uh, and just, just not feeling comfortable. I was almost at the point of giving up, to be honest. I’ve never been obese, but always overweight and uncomfortable. Yeah. Tried everything You can imagine. You show it at me. I’ve tried it. Spent money on pills and books and programs and gyms and all of it.

And I was just about to give up, but I love to read. So I was on Amazon and through some research, saw the book, thought, oh, that looks interesting, ordered the book. I thought, Hmm, interesting. It wasn’t even scratching the surface of the book. Then I started looking at your, you know, your bio and your background.

Then I started to look at Legion and the supplements and that kind of thing. And then through your website I saw the link to the free call. For the coaching and I thought, well, this is crazy. I said, no, you know, very 

Mike: skeptical. You, you should be . I mean, that’s everybody getting into fitness, be very skeptical of everybody and everything.

Unfortunately, that’s the appropriate mindset. 

Liz: Exactly. So I thought, hmm, yeah, why would this be any difference really? I thought to myself, why would this be any different? But I had done enough digging that my gut was telling me, there’s something different here. There’s something that maybe I should give a chance.

So I filled out the survey and I had a call with Cody and it was like having a conversation with a friend. He was very generous with his time. There was no pressure. He answered my questions. He got back to me, he shared his journey. I wanted to see his journey, see if he was just a salesperson, or if he had actually gone through, you know, are you, are you just talking the talk or did you walk the walk?

Right. And, and I was on the cusp of not joining because I had dental surgery coming up and, you know, I was busy at work and there’s, you know, I was right in the middle of Covid. I thought, ah, you know, eh, the gyms are closed. Whatever. All the reasons were good to say. Mm. Timing is wrong. There’s never a perfect time to do anything.

So I took the point, 

Mike: it’s like when people are trying to figure out when’s the perfect time to have kids, like, I’m sorry, , there is no perfect time. You just, there’s a point where you just gotta jump 

Liz: and, and this was kind of it too. And I thought, well, it just seemed different enough that I thought I’d give it a try.

So when I joined, I figured I wouldn’t join for three months because you can do anything for three months. So I joined for six because I wanted it to stick, and it’s going to be two years come June, and I’m keeping on because I absolutely love my coach. And as much as I had been through a lot of programs, I might have gotten so far by myself, but I never would’ve been able to accomplish what I have with my coach.

Jamie Pearson’s, my coach, she is absolutely amazing. I was really concerned about age bias. I was afraid to be paired with, uh, a young 20 year old that had, you know, no life experience, no, never had any weight issues and, and that kind of thing. And it was very refreshing to have her as a coach and, and to continue to have her as a, a coach.

It’s a privilege. She’s very knowledgeable. She’s, she’s encouraging, she’s realistic. She listens to what I, my feedback and, and what I’m struggling with or what have you. And anybody who’s, who’s, who’s been through any kind of a diet or, or a struggle with weight, knows that. There is no magic bill. There is nothing perfect.

You have to show up and do the work. Right? And your, your little black, little black book of motivation, you’ll say, well, yeah, that’s great. You’ve, you’ve planned, but are you ready to do the work? And I was, the beautiful thing about having a coach is that, um, the accountability is, is really wonderful. That in itself, there were many times throughout the journey, nothing was perfect, right?

So I had my, my, uh, dental surgery before I started, then started the program. I didn’t even have all the equipment I needed to get started. I had no idea what, what a squat rack was. I had no idea. Like I was really, even though I had done some weightlifting, very limited, lots of different things that I started and stopped over the years, but I really didn’t have all the tools I needed.

But it was. Cody had said, well, you know, I gave him a list of what I had and Jim wasn’t an option for Covid. Everything was closed and it ended up being the best thing ever because I’ve been able to lose 38 pounds all at home. I even met 20% body fat. I’ve, I’ve gone down 16% body fat since I started. My back squad is, is at 115 pounds.

That’s 50 pounds more than when I started. And my deadlift is, uh, at 130 pounds. And, uh, my bench press is at 94 pounds, you know, and I had no idea where to even start. Whether I could even put a plate on the bar because I had no idea where to start. That’s where I was at, and now it’s, and it, it’s been amazing because I, I started, I did P90X at some point, which, you know, probably everybody else has.

I was so sore the first night that I did p90x. I couldn’t wash my hair. I could barely wash my hair. I couldn’t get my hands up. And with this, I never had any excruciating pain. And I push myself. I really do. And it’s, it’s just because, you know, you’re taught the proper form and, and, uh, I love the apps. I love the, uh, you know, the technical videos that you can go back to anytime to review the form and that kind of thing.

The app, it’s been, it’s been great. Honestly, Mike, it’s been really, really great. And it’s probably been, I’m not saying there’s no effort, but it’s probably been the easiest thing I’ve ever done in terms of a program. So 

Mike: much. I wanna, I want to pick up on, on, uh, on all this, that, uh, so many good points that you’re making here.

Uh, you mentioned, Age bias. Do you feel comfortable sharing your age with people listening so they know or reason I say that is because Well, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll stop talking . 

Liz: Sure. Yeah. I was hoping you wouldn’t ask, but I’ll, I’ll share anyway. If you 

Mike: don’t, you don’t have to if you don’t want to. I just. 

Liz: No. No.

I, I can’t, I can’t. I’m 58 years 

Mike: old. So what you’ve done is fantastic. And even just your body composition. Oh yeah. You just, you know, I’m just 20% body fat and I mean, I, I’ve heard from many, many women over the years, in their forties, fifties, and sixties who have come to believe, and it’s usually because they’ve been told by others.

It, it’s like they’ve been programmed to think that because they’re no longer 20 and because maybe their hormone profile isn’t what it once was, for example. Um, that it’s too late to, to really get into shape. Yeah, you can, you can make little improvements and you can exercise for your health, but it’s too late to want to look, let’s just say, even athletic, just to have an athletic look.

So I just, I, I, I love that I’m talking to you because. . This is just one of, one of the many counterpoints that I’ve seen over the years that it’s never too late. And so if you are comfortable talking with that, I, I wanted to go straight to just asking you if there were any challenges that were related to any of those things or, I mean, if you’re speaking to your peers, you’re speaking to other women who, let’s say are 40, 50, 60 years old listening and who have been very discouraged because like you, they’ve tried many things in the past and they’ve, they’ve come to believe that it’s just something that’s wrong with their body at this point, and they can’t really do much about it.

Liz: Yeah. Well, I, I tell them that’s a myth. I have hypothyroidism. I only have half my 

Mike: thyroid. That’s okay. That’s a real thyroid condition. Which is important because I’ve heard from many women who have seen a chiropractor or even just like talked with some guru online who has, you can’t even use the word diagnosed, who has told them, oh, it’s probably that you have a thyroid condition.

No medical diagnosis, no actual problem. It’s usually a prelude to some weird diet or some weird supplement they’re supposed to take to fix it. But that’s a real thyroid condition. 

Liz: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I also thought going into this, how much. Could I possibly accomplish given that? So it’s a myth, like it or not, I that, and you know, when I, when I looked at what the program really was, Mike, I thought to myself, what is different here?

What, how, how can this be any different? How can it work any differently? So, yeah, I was even skeptical. And, and of course I went through the whole, I mean, I was addicted to buying diet books. It. Let’s, let’s try something else and let’s try something else. And while you’re trying something else, well, you know, you’re throwing caution to the wind and saying, I’m gonna start something else, so I may as well just go ahead and eat and not exercise.

And you, you know what I’m saying? It’s that, that old madness that comes with, with, and like I say, I wasn’t that overweight, but still 38 pounds as significant. But that was as heavy as I had ever been. But the madness, whether it was 10 pounds, five pounds, or 20 pounds or 30 pounds, it doesn’t matter. It was the same madness.

So when I saw this, I thought, eh, eh, can’t be any different. But it is. And I think, I mean, the reason why I’m doing this, Mike, is, is I’m a very private person. So it’s a testament to you and your company and your coaching program. And I think the most refreshing thing was when I saw my meal plan before starting, it was sort of like, oh great, here we go again.

Chicken, vegetables, steamed. Yay. Wow. And I thought this is going to be, You know, so I went through that whole process again of saying, oh, here we go again. But I, you know, if that’s me, I, I’m just tenacious. And I figured, okay, here we go. But then, then the beauty of the flexible dieting, when I finally understood what that really was, it was freedom.

And it remains freedom. It doesn’t mean that you’re eating, you know, junk food five days a week or three times a day or anything like that, but nothing’s off the table. You can eat whatever you want as long as you’re eating well most of the time, and you’re fitting into your macros and your, your, your calories.

Nothing’s off the table. And that is just freedom. It really is. 

Mike: And, and, and it’s kind of counterintuitive. It can sound counterintuitive to people who haven’t gone through the experience that you have because the idea, they think of anything related to numbers like calories or macros, whether it’s planning or tracking or, or even paying attention to, they equate that with restrictive dieting.

But of course, uh, I would argue, and you’d probably agree that it’s far more restrictive to try to follow a diet that has a bunch of rules and all the things that you can’t eat and the only things that you can’t eat. And it’s more liberating to have some boundaries that you can operate within. But you can, you can do a, basically whatever you want within those, uh, boundaries.

And there are only a couple, maybe non-negotiables and a little, the rest of it is. . 

Liz: Yep, exactly. And that was 

Mike: the key. And so would you, would you, would you say that that contributed the most to your ability to break this previous yo-yo cycle that you had gone through so many times? I, I 

Liz: would say so. I eat more now than ever, I think, and I weigh less than I have ever.

So yeah. It’s, it’s really, it’s still a little mind boggling to me as to how the science works, but I would really. I would like to thank you for doing the deep dive into the science because you know, as cliche as it’s going to sound, it is life altering. It has been for me and I’m grateful to have found your work and your company.

It, it’s a gift and, and I’m hoping if I can inspire one person to take a chance on you guys, cuz that’s really what I did. I took a chance because I was ready to just say, eh, I’m done with this. But, uh, but there was enough there to, to take my interest and give it a shot and I’ve never looked back and I will never go down that road again.

So, and it’s easy to, it’s easy to sustain. And 

Mike: that’s the key. It needs to be, it needs to be because it needs to be a lifestyle, not a 30 day challenge or even a 90 day transformation. It really just needs to be a lifestyle. 

Liz: Yeah. And you know, my motivation throughout my, my, you know, twenties and thirties and so on, and even as a teenager was really vanity.

But now my, my motivations are different. I’ve had high blood pressure. Uh, I don’t take many medication anymore. Uh, there’s heart disease in my family, osteoporosis, uh, obesity, lots of different things that are precursors that genetically I’m predisposed to. So for me, I just want to be. Strong. I, I just want to be strong and healthy as I age.

And of course they’ll look good. Of course. , 

Mike: I was gonna say, there’s nothing wrong with a little bit of vanity like part, that’s part of the reason why all of us do this. And there’s, there’s, there’s no shame in admitting that. 

Liz: No, no, no. So, uh, so that’s been great. And I think the, the other thing that’s been, Great for me too is you don’t have to be perfect all the time.

You know, I had challenges with my coach, but Jamie and I make a great team. She was always there to, and she’s still there to help me through things, right? So I had a dental Sur another dental surgery in between where it would’ve been really easy to quit, but she worked me through. You know, lead up the recovery time and then how to ease back into things without losing too much, uh, momentum or muscle and, and that kind of 

Mike: thing.

Can you share some detail? I mean, that, that’s a challenge. So I guess there were two surgeries. Any other challenges that you had to overcome that or just specific to you and what you were doing 

Liz: during the program? Absolutely. Um, nothing’s in a straight line, right, Mike? Uh, things go, you know, life throws you curve balls and so on.

Uh, yeah, I was diagnosed with arthritis in my knees, so we had to adjust for a period of time while I had a flare up. Um, because that was new, wasn’t something I, I was aware of. And, uh, so yeah, we worked through that and then, you know, that would’ve been a really perfect excuse to say, Hey, I’ve got bad knees.

I can’t do, I can’t do vax squats anymore. I can’t do this, or I can’t do that. And, uh, I think that our, we’re our own worst. We’re self-limiting technically. And, uh, I have carpal tunnel syndrome. Um, you know, other people would say, well, gee, I can’t, I can’t lift weights. I got carpal tunnel syndrome. Oh, sure you can, 

Mike: you know, , and not only that, but if you do your strength training properly and appropriately, it’s going to improve those conditions, not make them worse.

Now, of course, there are certain conditions that that would preclude you from doing certain things or, or certain things would be contraindicated, of course. But to your point, strength training on the whole, it, it can be made to fit really anybody’s circumstances if with a competent practitioner and whatever they have.

Strength training is just good for what ails you as the saying goes. Mm-hmm. and have you experienced that? How, how are your, how are your knees doing? How is your carpal tunnel. . 

Liz: Good. Excellent. Yeah. Even, even during flareups, I, you know, we just, just adjusted things. That was all really, and I’m stronger than I ever have 

Mike: been.

And that alone, of course, is good for your joints. Having stronger muscles is better for your 

Liz: joints, period. Absolutely. And for me, it’s, it’s also a question of, for my bones, I, I just want to be strong as I age and to continue to be able to do everything that I’m able to do now. And you, 

Mike: you’re, you’re, you, you mentioned with your body composition, your metabolism strength training does wonders for that too.

So I’m not surprised that you feel like, or, or even, you know, the numbers that you’re eating more food than in the past or consistently eating more, yet you look very different. You know, the combination of, I’m guessing in the past you weren’t eating as much protein. That’s usually the case. So shifting some of those calories, but then also that regular strength training just gives your body something else to do with calories, then store them as body 

Liz: fat

Exactly. Exactly. And we chose, uh, we chose five days a week for lifting, which is still the goal. I don’t make the mark all the time. I mean, while I was cutting the first cut, certainly, uh, I. Like a bulldog. I was just really on target. 

Mike: I mean, you, you taste blood for the first time and you start to see it and you, and then you just want to see more.

I understand. 

Liz: Yeah, exactly. Now we’ve been through sort of a, a lean bulk, very conservative, lean bulk because I didn’t wanna gain a lot of fat. We’re doing another cut, just, uh, a little mini cut and then we will, my goal is really to gain more muscle now, but the nice part about it, and I, I think the thing that’s key f especially for those that are maybe thinking on embarking on such a journey, is that you don’t have to be perfect.

Mike: And what did that look like for you? What do you mean when you say that? 

Liz: Well, consistency is key. I think that that helped me a lot to just say, you know what, you don’t have to be perfect. You’re gonna have days where, you know, you lose a few reps here and there, you don’t feel like it. Now I’m at the point where, you know, my, my husband 30 pound deadlifts, sometimes I’m thinking, man, weights are getting heavy.

This is, you know, do I really feel like doing this? And, you know, you just get started, you know, you do your warmup sets and, and you just get into the groove. And once you’re done, you feel like a million bucks and you’re happy you did it. And it’s not that big a deal. And you don’t have the, I’ve never had the aches and pains that I thought I’d have lifting this kind of weight.

I just don’t. It’s pretty amazing. 

Mike: Ironically, many people find that the aches and pains more often come if they have to take time off or after a few weeks of not training, that’s when their knee starts to bother ’em a little bit or their back starts to bother them a little bit, and then they get back into the, into the habit of training and then, and then no problems anymore.

And you know, pain is kind of a mysterious thing. The, the science of it’s very complicated and they’re, they’re still trying to, there, there still are many questions about how it works, but one, one theory, it’s probably still the prevailing theory last time I looked at the research, is that strength training can, can raise our threshold of, of pain perception.

So the, there’s something that that could. Pain, something is not quite right, doesn’t mean there’s a major problem, but something is not quite right. And if, if we were not doing regular strength training, the threshold of of pain would be enough that, or, or it would be low enough that we could perceive it.

But by training regularly, we just kind of raise that threshold and then we’re just, we just don’t feel it anymore. And that is though, in a, in a healthy and productive way, rather than taking drugs to mask the pain. Exactly. So that’s, that’s, that’s pretty cool. And, and again, counterintuitive. 

Liz: Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. I, it still amazes me. How 

Mike: did you deal with the, the surgeries and having to, like, did you miss some time? 

Liz: The one prior to wasn’t that big a deal because it was before the program started. So the one in between I probably, maybe a week and a half kind of thing. . Not too, too 

Mike: bad. No. And so then you were, you should, you, you probably were able to more or less pick up where you left off if, if you were only off for a week and a half, I’m guessing.

Yeah. 

Liz: I mean, in a week and a half is surprising. You, you do feel a bit of, you know, you, you figure, uh, can I pick up the same weights? You’ll lose a few reps. But yeah, for the most part it was just, uh, a hiccup. But without the coach, I think it would’ve been, it would’ve been a lot harder to be consistent.

Even now, I find, and I, I’m a fairly self-motivated person and a self-starter, but, but even at that, there are times where life and fatigue and, you know, sleeplessness and, and you know, over time and you name it, there’s, there’s always something that, that sort of throws you a curve ball. And, uh, it, it, it’s just a lot easier with a coach to work through it and keeps it refreshing.

And the, the part that’s really nice. By having a coach. The recipe’s laid out for you. Show up, 

Mike: do the work. That’s one of the, that’s one of the, the, the biggest benefits of my coaching and any, any well-designed coaching service is just that, just all the thought and all the work is done for you. You just follow the plan.

If there’s anything that doesn’t work for you, you let your coach know it’s their job to make it work for you. You don’t have to go read, you don’t have to go watch YouTube videos. It’s not your job to face, it’s their job to figure it out. It’s your job to do it and to enjoy it. Those, that’s all you gotta do,

And if you, if you’re not doing it, that’s a problem. If you’re not enjoying it, that’s a problem cuz we need to make it so you can enjoy it. But it’s 

Liz: doable. It’s, it’s doable and it’s sustainable. That’s the, uh, That’s the nice part about it. 

Mike: So are you still training at home? Yeah. So, so, you know, I’ve just heard from many people over the years who some people, they like training at home by themselves.

They just like it. Many people though, find it harder to be consistent and to stick to a regimen if they’re training at home because they don’t really like it because they’re by themselves, because there are other things they could just go do instead. What has that been like for you? I, 

Liz: I really like it.

There are zero excuses. I have everything I need here. And, you know, the fact that I, I really don’t have any, I mean, I have a treadmill. I never unfolded it once the entire time that I’ve been on this program. Not once. I mean, the squat rack was essential once I understood why I needed it. And, uh, you know, I bought a little bit of equipment.

I bought a decent bar and, and some plates and, you know, I, I bought what I needed, you know, bought myself some decent shoes so that I, you know, instead of having runny 

Mike: shoes, you’re like, you’re a proper weightlifter. , 

Liz: yes. Yeah, it should be a proper weightlifter, but I love it from that perspective. I don’t have.

I don’t have the excuse to say, oh, I’m coming home and then I gotta go back out. Um, I live in the country, so, you know, nothing’s really close. And for me, I’ve got everything I need. And yeah. No, it’s not hard to be motivated at all, but somebody might say, well, you know, don’t have a gym. Don’t you know what all the excuses are good if you want it.

Yeah. There is some work. It, it’s not as consuming as some of the other programs I’ve done. Far 

Mike: from it. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve said before, just asked this kind of rhetorical question like, to, to people. It’s still in that cycle of making excuses, finding reasons to not do something is like, do you need more motivation or do you just need to decide that not achieving your goals is simply not acceptable?

Like, you gotta reach that point where you just go, it’s, I, I am not okay with not making this happen. So I just have to figure out how to make it happen 

Liz: and, and the beauty. You guys have figured it out. You did the deep dive, you did the research, you found the recipe, you’re sharing the recipe. All we have to do is follow the recipe and, and you know anybody who’s gonna, because I thought to myself I would never count calories ever again.

That was So you had tried 

Mike: that in 

Liz: the past? Oh sure. Oh, absolutely. And it just about drove me crazy. . 

Mike: Interesting. Can you, can you talk about that? I’m curious, uh, what specifically about it made it different than the flexible dieting approach? Well, 

Liz: the interesting thing is, you know, over the years, as you know, because I’ve been reading about this stuff, I can’t remember when I wasn’t reading about this stuff.

And so we went to the low carb and the low fat, and then the high fat and, you know, the, the change of this and that. And then, oh, well, you don’t have to count calories and, and you can eat as much fat as you want and, and whatever. And like it or not, that’s not true. So for me, the thought of having to count calories, that was almost a showstopper for me.

And yet when I started to realize just how many, how much fat I was consuming just by putting cream in my coffee in the morning. So the point of it is you have a decent scale. Once you get the hang of things, you, you have a pretty good idea of what you’re eating. However, if you are not measuring. And weighing you have no idea what you’re eating.

Even if you think you’re eating well, you just don’t have a clue. And so it’s not hard once you get into the swing of things, but it’s essential. It is essential. 

Mike: Yep. I mean that’s, that’s, that’s a, a common denominator of basically everybody I’ve spoken to over the years who has gone through a similar experience that you have is that the weighing and measuring for a period, not that you need to do it forever, but doing that for a period.

Was, gave them a eureka moment and helped them understand why so many things that they tried in the past didn’t work. Because to your point, it’s just the idea of what a proper portion of anything was was grossly distorted. And once they understood the principles of energy balance, then connected that to, well, what does that really look like in actual food?

And then they start to understand like, oh, so this is what, you know, 1500 calories looks like this is what 2000 calories looks like. I would’ve thought 2000 calories looks like 3000 calories, you know? . 

Liz: Yeah. Yeah. It, it’s, it’s pretty crazy for sure. Like I say, it, it’s uh, it’s simple. There is some discipline required to it, but it’s not, it’s not life al uh, life altering in, in the sense that how many programs was, oh, I have to have this in the fridge.

I gotta go shop here for this, I gotta cook this, I gotta have this for breakfast, gotta have this for lunch, and oh, I gotta prepare for tomorrow. It is exhausting. It is exhausting. And I did it for years and decades. Decades. So you, you start, you’re all pumped up to, to start something, and then you get, you know, a little bit of success and then you get deflated and it’s not sustainable.

Mike: And out of curiosity, because you had tried so many things in the past, do you remember, I’m just genuinely curious, what about Legion and my work and the presentation just gave you a little bit of hope that maybe, maybe this is worth pursuing? Because I’m sure in some ways it looked like something else you had tried before, like just another one of these, you know?

Yeah, 

Liz: exactly. The success story certainly helped. I had seen some of those before. Of course, the talk with Cody was, was really, really good. But I think what really did it for me, to be honest, is when I looked at the, at your, your website and I went to the coaching section, there was a guy, I don’t remember what his name was.

I don’t know. I would say he might have been in his forties. Nothing special about him in the sense that he was a guy. You’d think I’d relate more to. A woman. However, his testimonial was kind of what pushed me over the edge to make that call. And like I say, I had read, you know, I, I did a pretty deep dive into your stuff and, and, uh, and I didn’t even finish reading the book before starting to be honest, because I thought if I wait for that, I’ll never get started because there’s always so much to do.

Mike: And, and you can kind of just shortcut, you can kind of skip like, you know, again, that’s, that’s a a, a good little quote unquote hack for learning anything quickly is if you can get good coaching. It’s fun to read books, but it’s faster to get good coaching. It 

Liz: is . And, and that was it for me. I think it was, I didn’t wanna do the thinking, I didn’t wanna do the calculating, I didn’t wanna figure out what I had to eat.

I didn’t want to try and figure out what equipment I needed at home to get this done. And, I needed some help. I figured, you know what? I’ve tried enough things on my own and that hasn’t worked, and this seems different enough that I figured I’d give it a shot and here we are two years later. 

Mike: Makes sense.

I mean, uh, it’s, it’s something that, um, if you want to learn any new thing, even if it’s, uh, just a hobby, looking for coaching right away is, is not a bad idea. Cause again, you find a good coach, you can save yourself so much time and so much frustration. And you know, that’s something that. I even look for, you know, if I, if I wanted to start playing tennis.

So I, I think it might, that might be fun. I absolutely would immediately just find a good coach and start working with a good coach, uh, before I would even read anything. Cause I don’t, I don’t know if I even am gonna like tennis enough to wanna read a tennis book, but if I work with a good coach, I know that every hour spent with him could be as valuable as 10 or 15 hours spent on my own or,

Liz: Mm-hmm. , I’ve learned so many things. Like, there were things that where I thought I was stuck that I’d never be able to lift another pound. You know, she helped me to, with, with Versa grips, for example, and micro plates. And, you know, five pounds at some point for me seemed impossible. I had no idea about micro plates.

I had, you know, and there are times where you’re just discouraged because, you know, you figure, well, you know, I’ve probably gone as far as I’m gonna go. And, and, uh, you know, the, the phone calls are, are just great. And, you know, the video reviews and, and the progress reviews are just, uh, really, really helpful.

Extremely helpful, like my coach is, she’s, she’s amazing. I think we make an amazing team and uh, I’m not ready to give that up. I’m having too much fun and learning a lot at the same time. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. Do you wanna transform your body but you just can’t seem to break out of the rut? Have you read books and articles, watched videos, listened to podcasts, but still just aren’t sure exactly how to put all the pieces together for you?

Or maybe you know what to do, but you’re still struggling to stay motivated and on track and do the things that you know you should do? Well, if you are nodding your head, I understand getting into great shape is pretty straightforward when you know what to. But it’s not easy. It takes time, it takes effort, it takes grit, and that’s why I created my v i P one-on-one coaching service.

We take people by the hand and we give them everything they need to build their best body ever. We give them a custom diet plan, training plan, supplementation plan. If they want supplements. You don’t have to take supplements. We coach them on how to do every exercise correctly. We give them emotional encouragement and support, accountability, and the rest of it.

And we are pretty good at it too. We have worked with thousands of men and women of all ages and abilities and lifestyles and help them build a body they can be proud of. And guess what? We can probably do the same for you. Our service is not for everyone. But if you wanna find out if it is right for you, if there is a fit, head on over to Muscle for Life.

Do show slash vip that is Muscle, f o r Life show slash vip and book your free consultation call now, where do you want to go from here? You mentioned, uh, a little mini cut, but what do you see in the next like year or even three years? Do you have some, some goals that you’ve set for yourself? The goal 

Liz: is really to, to gain more.

Yeah, I just, I just wanna be really strong as I age. That’s really the goal. And healthy also. Right? So, um, of course there’s a little vanity in there too, so I’d like to be a little bit more cut still. But, uh, so we’re, we’re, you know, doing the balance between, you know, switching back and forth to, to to achieve the goals, but that’s it.

Yeah. 

Mike: That the body fat trap. It’s, uh, it’s funny, I’ve joked that the, the, the problem with, with getting really lean is then anything, but that always feels a little bit too fat. Yeah. I hear you. You just have to know that that’s the psychology of it, and everybody wants to learn it for themselves, and I know you’re gonna go learn it for yourself, but just know, and, and as lo, as long as you’re ready for it and you can laugh about it, you’re okay as long as you don’t take it too seriously.

But everyone gets afflicted with the, the curse of getting very lean if they do it. 

Liz: Yeah. I’m already there. I’m already there. For sure, for sure. Because now, now I’m not saying I, I, you know, I’m just saying if I’m not at where I was at my leanest at the end of the first cut, then it’s sort of like, eh, yet it’s all, it’s all up here because.

You know, I, I, 

Mike: yeah. It just, it only matters. Like, it’s, it’s funny because if you, if you were to like show a picture of you at that point and then a picture of you now to somebody else, they might be able to, if you were to like, tell ’em No, no, really look, like if you look right here, they would be like, oh, yeah, yeah, I guess I can see what you’re saying.

But, you know, you know, so it’s, it’s really kind of just us, uh, staring at, in the minutia of our physique. Uh, but again, as long as you can laugh about it, I think it’s, there’s nothing wrong with it. 

Liz: So, yeah. So maybe just, I, I, I really like the muscle definition without being crazy about it. So, you know, like it or not, if you have a little bit less body fat, you’ve got more, more definition.

Mike: And also people, you know, you have to find, you have to find the look that you like. I find that there’s, there’s probably a bit more variation in that with women than men. Many men tend to just kind of go in the direction of. The bigger and leaner I am, the better period. I can never be big and lean, uh, and, and lean enough.

However many women they like, they like how they look at, let’s say 18 to 20% body fat. That’s what they like. Uh, they like that look. And then other women though, they actually prefer how they look at 23 to 25% body fat. And so it’s just also learning your preferences and, and then, Not having to quote unquote feel bad.

That’s, that’s your preference. There’s nothing wrong with that. Versus, again, so long as we’re in the, the spectrum of what’s healthy, it’s finding what’s aesthetically pleasing to you and just do that. Yeah. 

Liz: What’s been refreshing for me as well is my coach gets it, her journey was similar to mine as well, and so that, that was really 

Mike: nice as well.

Yeah. Yeah. It, um, it’s something that I just think of, again, a lot of, a lot of emails that I’ve answered over the years and, you know, I’ve heard from many, many women and, and, you know, I, I always have done my best try to empathize, but it’s different when somebody has gone through it and you can really speak to the.

Person. I mean, it’s, you can tell them the things that they are thinking because you were there, you were that person. So I understand that cuz when I wrote Bigger, leaner, stronger, initially I was writing that book to like a 17 year old me. I mean, that was really, that was the person I was writing to. And there just happened to be a lot of other 17 year old mes that had the same, you know, inner monologue and had, had the same problems and blah, blah, blah.

And so it’s, it’s really great to get somebody who understands you. I, I wanted to, I wanted to follow up on the thyroid situation specifically, because that is often used as a, as an excuse or, or, or people are again, they. Convinced that because of that, there’s simply no hope. So can you just share with, with people how, how you’ve been able to deal with, with that situation?

Clearly it’s not getting in the way of your fitness, and I mean, I, I just wanted to follow up on that because that, that’s a big one. There are a lot of women in particular who have been convinced that if they actually have a thyroid condition or maybe they have a thyroid condition, and because of that, their metabolism is now so depressed that there’s no hope.

Liz: I’ve probably had hypothyroidism for 15 years now, and, uh, re they removed half my thyroid about 15 years ago, so maybe a little bit longer than that. Maybe more like 20 years and 15 years ago, they would’ve, uh, removed half my thyroid. And, um, I mean, you, you need, certainly, you can’t live without your, your thyroid hormone, so it has to be regulated.

But once your numbers are stable, that’s no longer a reason for being stuck, so to speak. And in my view, it’s two simple things. You’re eating too much, you’re not moving enough. It’s as, it’s as simple as that. And it sounds like the usual calories in, calories out and, and, and all that good stuff like everybody else says.

But there’s a lot more to it than that. But your recipe is simple. And like I say, I still don’t fully understand why it works, Mike. And, and to be honest, you know, you were also a reason why, you know, I looked at your, you know, your original picture that you were showing of you as, I don’t know how old you were, maybe 17 at the time.

Mike: Yeah, I was probably 18, I think. I was like, mate, max 19 lifted weights for a year or something. 

Liz: Yeah. But anyway, and then you showed another picture where you was, you were seven years in and you thought, you know what? I’m eating right. I’m at the gym seven days a week. I should be more cut than this. And, and, and then, you know, your, your ultimate picture of where you are totally ripped.

And I thought, okay, here’s a guy who’s done the, the research and the science, and you did the deep dive and, and, uh, kudos to you because that’s a lot of work. I know, because as much as I’ve read everything and tried everything, I, I didn’t do the, the scientific, you know, deep dive like you did. But I’ve tried everything and, uh, you found the key and I thank you for that.

Oh, I’m 

Mike: flattered. I mean, and also I’m really a desk for sure. I, I, I always try to give credit to the, the people who I learned from. I mean even, even the scientists who did the research and then I was just the guy who came along and started to read it and say, Hey, well this makes sense. And, uh, why isn’t, why isn’t there a book like Bigger Leader Strong?

Why isn’t somebody just put this information into an easy to understand book and let’s, let’s get rid of all of the marketing puffery and let’s not claim this is something that it’s not. Or invent some pseudoscientific new breakthrough angle, which unfortunately another gimmick. Exactly. And unfortunately that if we’re talking about book publishing or just let’s just say information publishing in any format that is.

The gatekeepers, so to speak, are looking for if you don’t have the one liner that promises something new in breakthrough, the, the one weird trick or the one thing they are not telling you, it’s hard to, to get any, uh, of the gatekeepers to give you any time. And that’s one of the reasons why I self-published the book in the beginning was I knew that and I didn’t want to argue with agents, or I just wanted to put something out there that I thought would fill a need.

And so, you know, I’m, I’m flattered, but again, I, I have to give credit to, to many other men and women who, who did a lot more hard work. And I, and I was the kind of the curator, so to speak, you know, but 

Liz: it’s made such a difference for me that I, it is a game changer. It’s a life changer. And I’m not saying that.

And, and, and hopefully for you, I, I’m, Personally thanking you for that because it’s changed my life. I’ve ch I’ve, you know, everything and, and I’m just gonna say this, your, your company is refreshing. Customer service doesn’t exist anymore, and you guys are right up there. There is no one like you guys out there.

I’m talking about fitness or otherwise. Anything you claim to do, you do when you set a hundred percent money back guarantee. I tried your genesis. It makes me sick to my stomach. I, there’s something in it, uh, an ingredient and I tried it several times. I c I can’t take it. I had bought two, they were on sale.

You guys gave me my money back, no questions asked. You know, you asked why cuz you wanna learn from it. But, um, I just love your ethics and uh, I commend you for it. 

Mike: Well, thank you. And, and I’m glad to, to hear. You have, uh, put our money back guarantee policy to the test because it is that simple bully views and, and, and that’s just, I just don’t understand why more businesses, I mean, we’ve talked about, we could go off on a whole tangent on businesses.

I just don’t understand why more businesses don’t go, really go out of their way to deliver excellent customer service. It’s such a weird phenomenon, and I agree with you. I’ve, I’m not a big buyer of things in general, so, so even as an infrequent consumer, other than like random little things I just need off of Amazon.

But in terms of other businesses, uh, and, and so even as an infrequent consumer, I could probably rattle off five or 10 just kind of weird interactions I’ve had with businesses where it, it almost seems like their policy. Is to err on the side of, of treating their customers badly. Like if you’re not sure what to do, just just treat your customer badly and assume they’re trying to rip you off and assume they’re full of shit.

And it’s really, really strange. Now, I’m not gonna, of course, I’m not saying that’s most businesses, but I do think you’re probably right that a lot, there are a lot of businesses out there that just do not prioritize customer 

Liz: service. It it’s a thing of the past. Customer service is a thing of the past.

And, uh, people hide behind the internet. They hide behind voicemail. If you try and call, you guys have been, your staff is amazing. I’m, and I’m not just talking about my coach. Cody’s been wonderful. Everyone that I dealt with, whether it was me wanting to add something cuz I forgot something to an order that I, I made online and I thought, oh geez, I forgot to order this.

So I picked up the phone hoping that I could get it before you guys got it out the door. And, uh, you know, everybody, it appears like everybody who works for you has been through the program, which is wonderful. Yeah. And uh, you know, it’s, it’s just like talking to a friend when you reach out to you guys.

It’s, and, and I’m not saying that for the heck of it, I don’t endorse anything. I seriously, I, I don’t, don’t endorse much of anything. So for me to take the time to do this, it’s because you’ve made a real difference. You’ve made a real, real difference. 

Mike: I really appreciate it. And that’s, that’s, um, from, from the beginning, that’s been our intention with customer experience, with customer service in, in particular.

And Ben, our policy is go out of our way, make our customers happy, almost to whatever it takes. Now, could there be a scenario where somebody is making really inappropriate demands? Okay, sure. Has that ever even happened? I don’t even know. I, I, I can’t think of any, any time that that has happened. But as aside from that, it’s just do whatever it takes to make them happy and to exceed their expectations and to create that effect where they’re like, wow, that was actually really good customer service.

I was not expecting that. 

Liz: No. And, and actually I, you know, I, I called back to thank Cody at some point to just say, you know what, thanks man for, you know, giving me the opportunity and, and. I, and he didn’t nudge me. I’m not saying that, I’m just saying he, he helped me to, to, to see that there was something different here.

And that’s been, it’s been wonderful. And, you know, for those that are probably saying, oh, you know, she’s probably getting a kickback or whatever, or No, you never know. Right? You never know Mike. Right. So, you know, and, and in your book, a lot of people will say, well, you know, do you, do you have to take supplements?

So when I started, I, I was zero supplements because I thought, eh, when you’re starting any kind of a journey, the weight’s gonna start to fall off as soon as you start to do something different. So I kinda waited until things started to slow down a little bit, because the numbers start to slow down after a while.

So then I started the Phoenix and. I’m not taking it now. I took it for my first cut. And, uh, love your, your, your protein powders. Love your pro. You know, the, the variety is just amazing. However, I have a question for you. When are you gonna open a warehouse in 

Mike: Canada? It is a good, it is a good question. I know.

I, I, so, so we just opened up Amazon UK so we can serve UK now Canada is number two on that. That was number one simply by demand. And then Canada is number two. And the only reason we haven’t done it yet is, uh, the logistics unfortunately was a bandwidth problem. Right. Um, you know, we have, there’s, there’s about 80 of us, uh, half full-time, half part-time, and.

We’ve just had to prioritize it. I mean, it’s good to have an abundance of opportunities of course, but we’ve had to take things one at a time. Even though I’ve, I’m the kind of person who just wants to do everything all at once, but that, that gets, that gets messy. And so only in the last six months or so have we really started to focus on international and getting our international markets set up properly.

When we get off this call, I’m actually gonna call somebody and cuz I know that Okay, good. Amazon, Amazon uk. We’re manufacturing our products over in the UK as well, which we may need to do in Canada, which just adds another layer of logistics. But because Canada’s closer, obviously I’m not sure that that was the case.

I remember there was a problem about sh there was a problem, uh, uh, with shipping things from here to Canada and, and when you start figuring. The, the economics of it all the way to the end, there was a problem. But, um, it certainly can and, and it will be done. I just, I, I don’t have an immediate answer.

I’ll look forward to it. I’ll look forward to it as well. I mean, that’s, that’s a, a straightforward plan for expansion. That’s like, you know, we’re not, we’re not in any retail locations and yes, there’s a big opportunity, uh, in retail. However, there also are big risks in retail. Uh, retail’s very expensive, especially if you want to do it right, and it is not growing nearly as quickly as the e-commerce, uh, sector.

And so, To continue to expand Legion, I’m much more interested in just going after international distribution and international, just e-commerce, getting it set up so people in Canada can get inexpensive shipping, fast shipping, and elsewhere. We have, you know, um, Australia is another place that would make a lot of sense.

And so that, that is our, our current plan is, uh, maybe dabble in retail, but at a small level, independent stores. But I’d rather spend my, my resources on e-commerce in different areas in the world where there is enough demand to warrant 

Liz: it. Of course. Yeah. For us, I mean, one of the things is really, you know, exchanged and, and the.

As well and the time to get stuff too. So what I do is I, you know, you guys are on sale. I stock up and it’s 

Mike: good. That’s what a lot of, I know that’s what a lot of international I and that, and it’s a great idea. Like a lot of, I know that we have quite a few customers international they’ll wait for, so they know that our biggest and best sale of the year is our Black Friday sale.

We always do a lot of discounting and so some people, they order their entire years worth of supplements that they want from us, you know, and save a lot of money. And then sometimes they get hit with some, with some duties or whatever, but when it all shakes out, it’s reasonable. And that’s it. , 

Liz: exactly. Exa So I didn’t mean to put you on this spot.

Mike: No, no, no. It’s a good que It’s a good question. I, I wish I, I wish I could say, That, uh, it’s only a month away, but it is on the list. We’re totally aware of it. There, there we, we do get a fair amount of, uh, website traffic from Canada. I saw a fair number of books in Canada. There’s certainly enough demand.

It, it was just, uh, UK because then. By getting set up property in the uk, we can also serve Europe. And so when you combine UK and Europe, that, that definitely was like number one in terms of quantity of demand. Yeah. Yeah. And, and one other comment just for people listening who, um, are in business or want to get into business.

So there are a few reasons why Legion is, is doing well, but this customer service, this emphasis on customer service is one of them. And we see it a lot in word of mouth. We see it a lot in returning customers. We see it a lot in customer lifetime value. So if, if you were to look underneath the hood of, of Legion, some of these metrics are much, much better than industry average.

And that’s partly because I would say our, our products. Much better than just industry average. However, again, customer service is much better than than industry average. And so just, just for, for anyone listening to, to be specific, so last year, uh, we, we grew the top line about 36 or 37%. Legion grew sales about 36, 30 7% last year.

And I know that, um, so I’ve heard from several manufacturers, I’ve heard from an insurance company who works with a lot of, uh, sub sports nutrition companies that a lot. My competitors. A lot of people in sports nutrition over the last couple of years have not seen much growth, have been flat or even in many cases down a little bit.

And so the, there are several reasons why we are the exception, but customer service is one of them. So even if my competitors are listening, treat your customers better and your business might do better even if it’s not in my own personal interest to give you this advice. It’s just good business . 

Liz: It is, but it’s, it’s a dying art, right?

Mike: You ha You have to be willing to invest in it though too. Like you have to be willing to, it costs money to make customers happy, to put the whole machine in place. And when, when the people are looking at the spreadsheets and they’re looking at how to maximize profit and they see numbers in customer, eh, you know, whatever.

Just delete that. 

Liz: And yeah, it’s a mistake. It’s a mistake, but it, but I have to say that everything you’ve promised everything and then some you’ve delivered on everything. 

Mike: Well, I’m glad to hear that cuz that’s the intention that, that’s how I think business should be done. Everyone makes mistakes, but you should always do whatever you can Exactly.

To deliver what you promised. I totally agree. 

Liz: And you have so kudos to you and your company for that. That’s amazing. Yeah. 

Mike: Thank you. Well, and thank you for the support and thank you for, for doing this interview. I’ve taken up about an hour of your time. Now. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that I, that you wanted to say or that I should have asked?

Uh, 

Liz: I don’t, I don’t think so. I, I, I’m just hoping that if I can inspire one person, if I can just inspire one person, and that’s my goal. That was the whole goal of doing this. It’s not for, Hey, look at me, I did this, but if I can do this at my age, with the ailments I have, with the, you know, hypothyroidism and, and, uh, 

Mike: the history of, of getting to that point also where you, you were about to give up.

I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s powerful because there are a lot of people out there who feel the exact same. 

Liz: and why was it gonna make a difference? And people will probably say, oh, I can’t afford coaching. Or, well, if I look at all the money I’ve spent over the years on pills and magazines and books and products and promises and just, just the life sucking energy, if I wish I had known this years ago, I would’ve saved myself.

Even with doing coaching, I would’ve saved myself thousands and thousands of dollars. So it’s, there’s a way, there’s a way you have three levels of, of coaching. Something will fit for somebody. You’ve got some for novices to experts. So you know what? All I can say is hopefully if anybody will take this as a, if I can do it, you can do it.

It sounds so cliche, but it’s true. And you know what, Mike, it’s been life changing for me. It just has. So thank you again. 

Mike: I’m flattered and I, I’m, I mean, this is, this is why I got in. This is why I wrote a book 10 years ago and, and then just kept on going to the next thing because I kept on getting cool feedback from people saying, Hey, this is really useful.

Uh, you should do more. All right, I’ll do what’s, what’s the next thing? And here we are. And, and just to comment on, on the price of, uh, okay. You spent money on, on all these things in the past and, and it’s also worth considering there, there’s, there was, I’m sure a lot of frustration, upset, uh, The years of trying things, failing, trying things, failing.

And what would it have been worth to you to not have to experience that or to just put an end to that alone? Where now, and, and I know what this is like personally, where once you’ve put the pieces together and you understand how this little machine works, you then you just know, oh, I, I’m never gonna worry about my body weight or my body composition ever again.

Like all of that is done. I’m never gonna be up at night stewing over. 

Liz: Yeah. Finding another book, finding another solution, trying to, you 

Mike: know. Yeah. Or thinking maybe, maybe it’s me. Maybe the common denominator of all these failures is me. Maybe it’s just me, which isn’t even an irrational thought. It, it’s not true in this case, but, , 

Liz: but I mean, you get to the point where you say, well, maybe it’s just not possible.

You know, maybe the, the combination of me and, and life and whatever, it’s just not gonna happen. And yet I was ready to give it another shot. There was just something in my gut that said, there’s something different here. And I was pleasantly surprised. Amazed, to be honest. So, so I hope. That I’m, I know I’m not the only person who has said these wonderful things about you, and I’m not saying it to flatter you.

I’m just honored to have the opportunity to thank you personally. I just hope that you don’t get blase with how your work really makes a difference. 

Mike: Yeah, I appreciate that. And it’s good for me because a lot of my work is, you know, I kind of sit here in my little cave and I work on the next article or the next book, or with Legion, you know, there are a lot of, uh, just kind of mundane routine things that, you know, you gotta do.

Uh, even though again, I have, I have a lot of good people and I’ve been able to delegate a lot of that kind of stuff. But it’s, it’s always nice to connect with somebody individually to see that. Again, it’s just a nice reminder that I’m not only doing this for my own entertainment or , or, or even worse would be just money.

I mean, that’s, that’s funny. When I was younger thinking about what was I gonna do, the idea of just having a business and kind of like selling widgets for a profit, even though I actually have more appreciation now for. Building a business. And, but, but at the time, that concept was so uninteresting to me.

Uh, so it’s nice to just, to have the reminder that again, this is, yes, this is, this is really why I’m doing what I’m doing, uh, more than any of the other maybe rewards that it 

Liz: provides. Well, it, it’s life altering, so thank you. Absolutely. 

Mike: Well, um, thanks again for, for taking a shot on me and, and on Legion and for your continued support.

And of course, keep up. Keep up the good work. You too. 

Liz: you 

Mike: as well. Hey, I’m working on the next, I’m working on the next book. What’s, what’s, 

Liz: what’s the next book? 

Mike: So, um, go, I haven’t talked much about it because it’s probably not gonna be ready until next year, but the, the concept is a daily reader style, something different because in thinking about, okay, so I have, I have bigger, leaner, stronger for men.

Really the target market is probably men aged 18 to 45. It’s really like kind of the target market for that book. And Thinner, leaner, stronger is kind of the female version of that. Now I have Muscle for Life, which is perfect for, let’s just say 45 plus. Even people younger for sure. But I really wanted to, I wanted to really make that specific kind of market it specifically to 45 plus men and women.

And so I have that, I have a cookbook. I could do more cookbooks, which I’m interested in doing. So just thinking about what do I want to do? I thought it would be interesting to do a daily reader, uh, format. So, you know, one, one short chapter per day. Do a, a mixture of educational and inspirational content or motivational content and, and break that educational content down into different, um, categories or buckets like some, make sure that there’s some diet stuff in there, some exercise stuff in there, some body composition stuff in there.

Some kind of just general health and fitness supplementation. And then the mindset is the other category, right? So like, Educational, it’s 50% educational and then 50% mindset, inspirational slash motivational, basically. So that, that’s the basic concept. So I have, I have essentially the second draft done.

So the first draft, you know, you just get all your ideas down, second draft, revise it. And now, uh, I’m in the beta reading phase, so I’m working with some beta readers, getting feedback as I go through it. It’s kind of turning into the third draft. And then I may do one more round of that. I probably will.

And then give it off to work with some editors to get it ready for publication. And this one I’m going to self-publish, uh, muscle for Life. I pu I, I did that with, uh, Simon and Schuster. This one I’m gonna self-publish because I’m gonna do a workout journal to go with Muscle For Life with Simon and Schuster.

And they don’t like to do too many things at the same time. But I’m tentatively. Excited about it in that I’m just very curious with the workflow and when, when the book comes out or when it’s closer. I’ll kind of get into some of the details for anybody who’s interested about how I went about doing it.

I’m just curious to see how the book is received, because I’ve. I’ve done a lot of work to try to engineer the content to be maximally impactful, pretest a lot of things with social media and do do a more extensive beta reading phase with the goal of getting writing a book that that is gonna, is gonna generate a lot of highlights.

Like when people are reading, there’s a lot of stuff where they’re like, I like that. That’s useful. I like that. Because ultimately what makes a book do well ultimately is word of mouth. You can have a great title and you can have a great cover and if you have a following, you can get enough reviews to, to get momentum, but to sustain momentum and sell well.

Which for me at this point, it’s not about the money. That the money of selling the books doesn’t really matter. But if I wanna write a book, I want it to do as well as possible. I want as many people to read it as possible. So to, to sell. Well, especially. Over a long period of time, you have to generate word of mouth for every reader they have to get you, let’s say, at least another reader, or, you know, if you can get that to two or whatever for a period, it becomes exponential.

So it’s also kind of an experiment. I, I guess I’ve tried to kind of apply the scientific method to like writing this book and see if my hypothesis, uh, bear. Fruit in the end. And cuz if it does do well enough, it doesn’t have to like explode and become a new number one New York Times bestseller. But if it does well enough, it’s a format that I like.

I think it’s interesting, the, the essay format, it’s just a little bit different than all the writing I’ve done for many years. So, you know, it’s kind of new and interesting in that way and it’s something that I could continue indefinitely so long as I have new things to say. And that’s a, uh, that that short kind of essay daily reader format is, is a perfectly.

I mean, there are, there are writers who only wrote, that’s all they ever did was write essays because that’s what they liked to do. And not that I would never go back to a long form book, but anyways, that, that’s me, Ram me rambling about this book. But , I look forward to it. Thank you, uh, work, working away on it.

But, uh, anyway, again. If, if there’s nothing else that you would like to share, then we can just wrap up. 

Liz: No, I think that’s it for me, but, uh, thank you again. It’s been an amazing journey. 

Mike: Yeah, absolutely. No, I, I, I love it. And for anybody listening who’s gone through it, You understand how meaningful it really is.

So it’s, it’s cool. It, it really is. Cool. Um, so thanks again, Liz. Keep up the good work and let me know. Yeah, you can always reach out to me. I’ll give you, uh, an email address. Uh, you’ll put it in the chat here when we’re done. You can reach out to me if you ever, you know, want to for any reason. Sounds good.

Liz: Thank you so much. 

Mike: Well, I hope you liked this episode. I hope you found it helpful, and if you did subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don’t miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you.

And if you didn’t like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have, uh, ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike muscle for life.com, muscle f o r life.com, and let me know what I could do better or just, uh, what your thoughts are about maybe what you’d like to see me do in the future.

I read everything myself. I’m always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode, and I hope to hear from you soon.