Ep. #1185: Don Saladino on How Celebrities and Busy Professionals Train

Don Saladino: [00:00:00] It’s just fascinating to me now. Everyone’s got this clever way of twisting things and justifying it. Do I think it’s in Hollywood a lot? Yes. Do I think you’re going to see it in Hollywood more now? Yes. Because a lot of these hormones are going to become so easily available to a lot of these actors. And I think it really comes down to, you know, who’s willing to take that dive or not.

Don Saladino: And I’m really not working with people one-on-one anymore, but if I was, I guess it would get to a point where I’d be training people who probably wouldn’t even tell me about it because they’d probably just keep it from me. And, you know, listen, I don’t think anyone in Hollywood—this is going to be kind of a kick to a lot of them—but I don’t think anyone in Hollywood looks so amazing that I’d say a human being can’t do that.

Mike Matthews: Hello, and welcome to a new episode of Muscle for Life. I am your host, Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today to hear from Don Saladino on [00:01:00] how to make nutrition and exercise work for very busy people who have very demanding and, in some cases, unusual lives.

Mike Matthews: For example, Hollywood stars, whom Don has worked extensively with, but also people who have limited time for nutrition and exercise for other reasons, like CEOs, people working on Wall Street, and others. And as Don has over 25 years of experience and has more than 40,000 one-on-one coaching sessions under his belt, he has rightfully earned a reputation as the go-to trainer for Hollywood stars, professional athletes, and busy professionals.

Mike Matthews: In this episode, he is going to talk about how he approaches nutrition and training with these people. He’s also going to talk about [00:02:00] celebrity transformations and how what you see on the screen isn’t always reality. He discusses the role of lighting, and yes, he also talks about steroids. He shares his opinion on the role that steroids play in at least some of the more impressive celebrity transformations that we’ve seen over the years.

Mike Matthews: Don talks about how he designs flexible and sustainable fitness and nutrition plans for his clients, and more. We’ll get going with today’s episode shortly, but first, I need to tell you about the fish oil supplement that I take every day. It’s called Triton, and it’s from my sports nutrition company, Legion.

Mike Matthews: Now, why do I take Triton every day? Well, there are two reasons. The first is that fish oil is one of the best sources of omega-3 fatty acids, which are vital for reducing the risk of various types of diseases, maintaining healthy levels of inflammation, supporting mental health and cognitive function, and more.

Mike Matthews: The second reason is that, while it is possible to get enough omega-3 fatty acids from your diet alone, it can be difficult to do if you don’t regularly eat enough of certain foods like olive oil, avocado, nuts, and fatty fish. This is why research shows that the average person’s diet provides just one-tenth of the amount of omega-3s needed to preserve health and prevent disease.

Mike Matthews: Now, even if you do eat enough of the right foods to get enough omega-3s in your diet to maintain your health, it’s virtually impossible to eat enough to enjoy some of the benefits that require a couple of grams per day—like reducing inflammation levels and muscle soreness after exercise. And those two reasons are why I think fish oil is one of the few supplements that basically everyone should consider [00:04:00] taking, regardless of their circumstances or goals.

Mike Matthews: And that is why Legion sells a fish oil supplement. Again, it’s called Triton. And it’s not just any fish oil supplement, of course, because at Legion, we don’t ever settle for “good enough.” It is a 100 percent re-esterified triglyceride fish oil made from deep-water Peruvian anchovies and sardines caught by fisheries approved by Friends of the Sea.

Mike Matthews: Now, that’s a mouthful, and it sounds like a lot of marketing puffery, but it’s not. First, re-esterified triglyceride fish oil is the gold standard of the different forms on the market because it is chemically similar to the natural form—the triglyceride form—but thanks to how it’s created, it’s more bioavailable.

Mike Matthews: It’s more resistant to oxidation, contains significantly more EPA and DHA (the specific omega-3 fatty acids we are looking to get from fish oil), and [00:05:00] has significantly fewer contaminants.

Mike Matthews: Now, second, regarding the fish that the oil comes from: small, cold-water, non-predatory fish like anchovies and sardines are ideal because they can be harvested ethically and sustainably, and they contain the lowest amounts of environmental toxins.

Mike Matthews: Third, Friend of the Sea is an organization that audits fisheries annually to ensure they meet the highest standards of ethical, environmental, and sustainable aquaculture.

Mike Matthews: And that’s not all that makes Triton special. It also contains no artificial food dyes, fillers, or other unnecessary junk. Every bottle is analyzed for purity and potency in a state-of-the-art, ISO 17025-accredited lab.

Mike Matthews: Triton is made in the USA with globally sourced ingredients in NSF-certified and FDA-inspected facilities that adhere to current good manufacturing practice standards. And all of [00:06:00] that is why Legion has sold over 150,000 bottles of Triton to over 50,000 customers, who have left over 1,000 five-star reviews on Legion’s website and Amazon.

Mike Matthews: And you’ve done a lot of that throughout your career. You’ve worked with a lot of celebrities who have to live that way. You’ve also worked with many busy businesspeople and others. These people have unique and legitimate challenges, and it’s not the same as giving simple, cookie-cutter advice to, let’s say, a 25-year-old kid who has literally nothing but time.

Mike Matthews: They can just sit in the gym for four hours a day. Those are two very different people. And you could say, well, yeah, I mean, the fundamental principles apply the same. But how you actually apply them successfully changes, right?

Don Saladino: Yeah, 100%. And you brought up the celebrity angle.

Don Saladino: I think what most people don’t understand is they assume most of these Hollywood people have private chefs and trainers with them all the time, and that everything is just easy. I’ve actually worked—I’ve trained over 40,000 one-hour sessions in my life. That’s how much coaching I’ve done since 1999.

Don Saladino: I was training pretty much 40 to 60 one-hour sessions a week. I’m known for it. I’m known as the guy who was getting up at 3 a.m. to open my club at 3:45. I’ve done more coaching than—there are very few people who’ve done more coaching than I have.

Don Saladino: I’ve worked with all kinds of people—from Wall Street executives to house moms, to professional athletes, to Hollywood stars.

Don Saladino: And I think what’s interesting about celebrities is that their lives are always entirely changing. For example, the Wall Street person wakes up every morning and they are the same person. I wake up every morning as Don Saladino. I’m in my home in Long Island. I have my two kids, my three dogs, and my wife.

Don Saladino: I have my business. I travel, but there’s a monotony to my schedule. It’s grounded.

Don Saladino: With a lot of these celebrities, they have to become different characters. They have to become different people for periods of time.

Don Saladino: Some of them can’t always jump in and out of character. Some are more what they call method actors, where they stay in the role for a couple of months or whatever it is. They’re constantly trying to incorporate an accent, or they’re doing this in a different time zone.

Don Saladino: They have to learn new skills for the role. You know, I don’t know about you, but I didn’t grow up sword fighting. A lot of my actors who are in the Marvel movies suddenly have to do all these stunts they weren’t accustomed to doing.

Don Saladino: Being away from their family and working in these different environments where the schedule is constantly changing can be tough. One night, they might be working overnight, and the next day, they’re on a day shift.

Don Saladino: Um, I don’t know about you, but my schedule’s not like that. Sure, I change time zones. Yes, I’ll be [00:11:00] in four or five different countries in the next few months. No problem. That’s easy for me. But when you take someone away from their family and put them in an unfamiliar environment with a new crowd of people—

Don Saladino: Under the stress of knowing that if they get sick, they can’t take a day off—it’s a completely different level. I was thinking the other day about when I was with Ryan Reynolds on Deadpool. He got walking pneumonia at one point. He’s not going to call in and say, “Hey, I’m not coming in.” That’s just not how it works.

Don Saladino: This isn’t like someone working at Goldman Sachs who says, “Oh, I have a cold. I’ll work from home today.” It doesn’t work that way in Hollywood. If anything, I find that working with individuals in Hollywood is often more difficult than working with professional athletes.

Don Saladino: Sure, professional athletes get injured, but so do actors. They’re breaking legs, breaking wrists, trying to do their own stunts in certain scenes, getting hurt, breaking noses in fight scenes, doing things the general public doesn’t see. And they’re not trained for this, right?

Don Saladino: Tom Brady was trained to be a quarterback.

Mike Matthews: There’s also an [00:12:00] incentive for the owner of Tom Brady’s team to keep him in the game for as many years as possible.

Don Saladino: Yeah, I mean, actors come and go, too. So there’s always that pressure. Suddenly, some critics reviews their performance. In sports, it feels easier to measure success because it’s clear. If the New York Mets win a game 5-0 and go on a winning streak, they’re doing well. They make the playoffs, or they make the World Series. There’s the proof.

Don Saladino: But with a Hollywood actor, you can have someone with a great reputation who goes in and delivers a phenomenal performance, but there might be a bad director.

Don Saladino: Or there might be bad editing. Suddenly, a movie that was supposed to be serious comes out looking cheesy, or it’s just not what they expected. This happens all the time. Someone’s career can get smashed in the blink of an eye.

Don Saladino: All it takes is one interview or someone catching you in a bad mood, and suddenly you’re a terrible [00:13:00] person.

Don Saladino: There’s this pressure in Hollywood that I’ve noticed. And listen, I have no reason to be saying this—I’m completely neutral because I work with everyone, or I have worked with everyone. So I think there’s a respect I have for a lot of these actors and what they have to do.

Don Saladino: And, listen, a lot of them don’t exercise. When they have to get ready for a movie, they’ll come to me and say, “Well, they’re telling me I have to get stronger and build muscle.” I’ll ask, “What does that really look like? What do you mean?”

Don Saladino: They’ll say, “Well, they said I have to put on 10 pounds.” I’ll respond, “Do you have to actually put on 10 pounds, or do you just have to get stronger and appear to have put on 10 pounds?”

Don Saladino: Because those are very different things in my book. Or they can look very different in my book. Let’s go on Google, pull up some pictures, and figure out the physique you’re trying to create.

Don Saladino: Over my 25-plus years of working with these people, it’s been fascinating how many different projects I’ve had to analyze. Sometimes, it’s as simple as saying, “Nope. You’re fine, you’ve got two months.” [00:14:00] You’re exactly where they want you to be. Let’s just stay healthy, stay resilient, and keep your energy high. Let’s not push you to the point where you go into shooting this role feeling like garbage or completely exhausted.

Don Saladino: Let’s make sure you maintain high energy levels. We don’t have to overdo it, right? It’s always a unique puzzle depending on what you’re helping to create.

Mike Matthews: When you’re working with celebrities, Wall Street guys, or anyone with complicated schedules, they’re often limited in how much time they can dedicate to training.

Mike Matthews: They also don’t necessarily have easy access to perfect nutrition. Practically speaking, if you get down to the tactical level, how do you make that work for these people? When you’re creating their training and nutrition plans, what are some of the things you’re considering? How do you lay it out for someone who lives that kind of life?

Don Saladino: Yeah, I mean, you’re talking about creating, right? You’ve got to get creative. It doesn’t always mean coming in with your “A-plan.” Honestly, I don’t even know what my “A-plan” is because what I do for myself every day is just the lifestyle I live 365 days a year.

Don Saladino: Most of the actors or people I’ve worked with don’t approach it the way I do. So, I think it’s about meeting them where they are—understanding their overall health, energy levels, and basic things like sleep quality, digestion, and stress.

Don Saladino: As a coach, you’re kind of like a chef. When a chef is preparing a dish, they’ll try different things, taste as they go, and adjust to make it work. Coaching is similar. If you’re a good coach, you look at the individual, their lifestyle, training history, and the time they have available.

Don Saladino: Then you consider their personality. Are they someone who follows rules easily, or are they someone who struggles with structure? You take all of that into consideration, and then you figure out the best approach for that person.

Don Saladino: If I took my personal plan and handed it to every person who wanted to get ripped or in shape, I don’t think I’d be very successful. Most people would look at it and say, “Yeah, no.”

Mike Matthews: They don’t need a coach for that—they could just buy a PDF online.

Don Saladino: Exactly. And who knows if that even works? The real magic comes from understanding the person and tailoring the approach to their needs.

Don Saladino: Yeah. And who knows if that even works? I think the magic really comes down to understanding: what are you trying to create? For example, when I have to get ready for a Muscle & Fitness cover—which I’ve been on three times since 2018—I don’t get a lot of time to prepare. Four, maybe five weeks tops.

Don Saladino: During those four to five weeks, there’s no variability. Literally, there are no cheat meals, not a sip of alcohol—not that I really drink anyway. But it’s strict macros, training, and focus.

Don Saladino: Sometimes, when I work with people, depending on their personality, I’ll say, “Alright, we’re not far off. Keep that cheat meal you like every Saturday night.” They’ll respond, “But, but, but…” And I’ll say, “No, seriously. We’ll look at you about four to six weeks out, and if we need to tighten things up, we will. Right now, the production company says you’re right where you need to be. Let’s focus on keeping your sanity.”

Don Saladino: Unless you’re preparing for something extreme—like a magazine cover—you don’t need to go all-in all the time. Let’s allow you to be successful. It’s like these New Year’s resolutions everyone is diving into right now.

Don Saladino: They want to go all in without giving themselves any relief. And, statistically, in a few weeks, a lot of them won’t be able to keep up. So, yeah, this process is so individualized. It’s so personal.

Don Saladino: I sell programs online. I host challenges on my website. But the reason I do challenges is that I can coach a large group of people, talk to them, and say, “We need to adjust X, Y, and Z.” I help them tweak their nutrition. It’s very rarely a one-size-fits-all solution.

Mike Matthews: Can you [00:18:00] give some examples? I mean, it doesn’t have to be celebrities, but maybe just a few different examples of approaches you take with people—on both the training and nutrition sides. Like, “Here’s a type of person I work with, and here’s how we tend to approach their plan,” versus another type of person.

Don Saladino: Right. I’ll have to use names because most people won’t know Joe Schmo from down on Bowery, right? So, Ryan Reynolds is a great example.

Don Saladino: He’s kind of a robot. We’ve been training together for 16 years. When it’s time for him to get in shape, we assess him, look at how his body is feeling, and figure out what we can assign to him that will help him be successful.

Don Saladino: The goal is for him to enjoy training and feel good when he leaves. It’s about asking, “What are we trying to create? Do we need to just tighten up? Do we need to develop his physique more? Does he need to get bigger, smaller, or leaner? What exactly are we trying to achieve?”

Don Saladino: With someone like Ryan, it’s easy because he’s disciplined and dedicated. We just put him on cruise control, and he runs with it.

Don Saladino: On the other hand, I’ve worked with people where the challenge is the opposite. Sometimes, I have to say, “Oh my God, we actually need to put on body fat.”

Don Saladino: For example, someone might come to me and say, “The role I’m training for requires me to look less ripped.” I’ll tell them, “You’re way too lean right now. This isn’t believable at all.” They’ll respond, “I know. This isn’t the physique of someone from the 1920s.” And I’ll agree, “Exactly. This doesn’t make sense.”

Don Saladino: So, the question becomes, how do we do this while keeping you healthy? How do we do this while still allowing you to train and move the way you love to?  So, let’s keep training, but how do we make adjustments so we’re not just eating McDonald’s every day and destroying your health? I still want us to get fiber and nutrient-dense foods, but we’ll need to offset calories in certain ways.

Don Saladino: That’s good enough—drive things up. And, you know what? Sure, you want a little ice cream every night? I’ve got no problem with that. Go to an organic ice cream store to avoid the chemicals. The additional fat and natural sugar can help you get a little softer and retain more water.

Don Saladino: But food quality is always my priority. I like to keep it as high as possible.

Mike Matthews: Sorry to interject, but this is a question I’ve gotten a lot over the years, usually from guys but sometimes from women as well. They struggle to gain weight while eating mostly nutritious foods. They don’t want to drink a gallon of milk a day or eat fast food.

Mike Matthews: Are there certain go-to foods you recommend for getting calories in a nutritious way?

Don Saladino: Absolutely. First, gaining weight is incredibly simple, but people tend to overcomplicate it. When someone enters a bulking phase, they often think it’s a free pass to eat whatever they want.

Don Saladino: Now, tracking nutrition can be a huge help, but it’s not for everyone. Tracking removes the guesswork. If you’re logging your meals and I see that you’ve eaten 3,200 calories today, broken down into protein, carbs, and fats, I can regulate that.

Don Saladino: For someone who eats intuitively, it’s harder. They might say, “I eat healthy—chicken, broccoli, sweet potatoes, avocado, eggs, fruits, and berries.” But I don’t know if they’re eating 1,500 calories or 3,000 calories. That’s a completely different story.

Don Saladino: For me, it’s just math. Let’s say someone’s goal is 200 grams of protein, 200 grams of carbs, and 100 grams of fat. That adds up to 2,500 calories:

• 200 grams of protein = 800 calories (4 calories per gram)
• 200 grams of carbs = 800 calories (4 calories per gram)
• 100 grams of fat = 900 calories (9 calories per gram)

Don Saladino: If someone is consuming 2,500 calories a day and they eat 1,000 calories in their first meal, they might feel so full for the next five hours that they don’t eat again. That window to get more calories in shrinks, making it harder to hit their goal.

Don Saladino: Now, 2,500 calories is manageable in my book. But if someone comes to me needing 4,000 calories, that gets a lot trickier.

Mike Matthews: That’s true, and it can be even tougher for someone smaller. Take, for example, a petite woman who weighs 100 pounds.

Don Saladino: I actually had a woman in my challenge community who started with me eating 1,400 calories a day. Over about a year, maybe a year and a half, we worked her up to 3,200 calories. She was incredibly active, and during that time, she lost over 30 pounds.

Don Saladino: We couldn’t put her in any further deficit, so we rebuilt her metabolism. We improved her energy levels, got her moving more, increased her protein intake, and likely added muscle. All those good things came together.

Don Saladino: Right. So, we couldn’t put her in any more of a deficit. Over time, we built her metabolism, improved her energy levels, got her moving more, kept her protein intake high, probably added some muscle, and all these good things happened.

Don Saladino: But let’s go back to those macros. For anyone listening, think about this: 200 grams of protein, 200 grams of carbs, and 100 grams of fat. To me, that’s simple math.

Don Saladino: Now, how many times a day do you want to eat? If you’re eating five times a day, [00:24:00] for 200 grams of protein, how many grams per meal is that? Forty. Forty grams per meal times five equals 200 grams. For carbs, it’s also 40 grams per meal. For fat, with 100 grams divided by five meals, that’s 20 grams per meal.

Don Saladino: So, if you’re eating five times a day and have 40 grams of protein, 40 grams of carbs, and 20 grams of fat per meal, you’ll hit your 2,500 calories: 200 grams of protein, 200 grams of carbs, and 100 grams of fat. Simple math. And if you’re off by a few grams, do I care? No.

Don Saladino: Now, if someone wants to eat four times a day, the math changes. The protein would go to 50 grams per meal, the carbs to 50 grams, and the fat to 25 grams per meal. It’s just math.

Don Saladino: The mistake people make when trying to gain or lose weight is approaching it like, “Oh, I’m gaining weight, so I’ll just eat a lot.” A young kid wakes up at 8 or 9 in the morning and thinks, “I’ll eat five whole eggs with bacon, a ribeye steak, and butter.”

Don Saladino: Next thing you know, they’ve consumed so many calories in one meal that they’re full for the next five or six hours and can’t eat again. They’ve eliminated all those opportunities to consume more nutrition throughout the day.

Don Saladino: For me, eating isn’t just about macronutrients. It’s about the nutrition you’re getting—micronutrients. For example, white rice is a great carbohydrate, but if that’s all you’re eating, it lacks nutritional value. There’s no fiber, no vitamins, no minerals.

Don Saladino: So, while I might eat white rice, I also include other carb sources throughout the day, like sweet potatoes, berries, oats, and more. I need to keep my carbs high, and I make sure they come from a variety of sources.

Don Saladino: For anyone listening who’s trying to gain or lose weight, tracking can be very beneficial. It’s not necessary for everyone, but it eliminates so much guesswork.

Don Saladino: For example, if someone’s eating only 15 grams of fiber a day, I’ll tell them, “That’s just not enough. You need to be closer to 25 grams.” Over a few weeks, they’ll say, “Oh my God, I feel fuller, I’m not craving junk at night, and I’m starting to lose weight.”

Don Saladino: Funny how that works, right? When you improve your nutrition, good things happen.

Mike Matthews: And as far as individual foods, are there certain ones you like to at least try out with clients?

Mike Matthews: And that could apply to losing weight or gaining weight. For example, when losing weight, the more nutritious, fiber-containing foods you can eat, the better—they keep you full. A tip I got from Menno Henselmans that I’ve passed along is about zucchini soup.

Mike Matthews: He mentioned in an interview that zucchini soup can be very filling. You can eat a lot of it, and for some reason, zucchini in particular seems to work well for satiety. Not that there’s anything magical about zucchini, but that was just something he pointed out.

Don Saladino: That’s interesting—really interesting. I don’t know Menno personally, but I’ve heard his name, and I know he’s highly respected and smart.

Don Saladino: Soup, for me, is tricky. It’s harder to track and stay on top of everything you’re putting in your body. Zucchini is great; it’s kind of a “free” food—you can eat a lot of it without worrying too much.

Don Saladino: But that doesn’t mean someone can walk into a restaurant, see zucchini soup on the menu, and order it without considering what’s in it. You don’t know if it’s loaded with sugar, salt, or cream. Sure, it might taste great, but you have to be careful.

Don Saladino: If someone is trying to get leaner, there are certain foods I lean toward. For example, if I’m going into a calorie deficit, I might skip things like jasmine rice and focus more on sweet potatoes.

Don Saladino: On the flip side, if I’m in a bulking phase, I might include more calorie-dense options. For example, a fibrous sprouted bagel can be great for pumping up carbs. Brown rice is a bit harder to consume in large quantities, but white rice is much easier to eat when you need more carbohydrates.

Don Saladino: Sweet potatoes, for example, aren’t very calorie-dense. Eight ounces of sweet potato might give you around 50 grams of carbs. Compare that to a similar amount of white rice, and you’re getting significantly more carbohydrates.

Don Saladino: For bulking, I also have a few secret weapons. Dates, for instance, are amazing—high in fiber and natural sugar. Five dates give you around 100 grams of carbohydrates, and they’re incredibly easy to eat. Around workouts, incorporating foods like dates can make hitting your macros much easier.

Don Saladino: When I’m bulking, there’s more flexibility with these types of foods. But when it’s time to get “cover ready,” things tighten up. For example, I’m about 215 pounds now, but when I’m on a cover shoot, I’ll usually be around 207. That’s not a massive difference, but by tightening up the types of foods I consume, I can create a level of “dryness” in my physique without having to dehydrate.

Don Saladino: For my last four shoots—three with Muscle & Fitness and one with Men’s Health—I didn’t dehydrate at all. I went in with a look that’s attainable and sustainable.

Don Saladino: I’ve been a drug-free athlete my entire life—not that it makes me better or worse than anyone else. It’s just my choice. I’ve been doing regular blood work for probably 30 years. I started going to Dr.Gary Wadler, who was involved in the congressional hearings for the whole steroid scandal in baseball—that’s how long ago I started doing blood work. I was going to him at 16 or 17 years old, sitting and talking about my blood work, long before people were even discussing it.

Don Saladino: When I started training, was I learning a lot? Not really, but kind of. As the years went on and this became more of an accepted practice, and people started understanding what optimization was, that’s when people began exploring the possibilities.

Don Saladino: But why would I take something if I wasn’t deficient in a certain area? If my blood work is in a really good place—which I credit to the last 30 years of the way I live—why would I add something to it? I’ll be 48 in April, and my blood work has always been solid.

Don Saladino: Sure, could I get bigger? Could I get stronger? Probably. But I don’t know the long-term ramifications of taking those things. I don’t know how it would affect my aging process or how my body might respond in the future.

Don Saladino: Maybe for some people, we’re seeing benefits. Look at Stallone—he’s almost 80 years old, still running, still doing crazy stuff. Applause to him. But there are others who aren’t as fortunate or don’t have the same resources.

Don Saladino: I may have gone a little off-topic there, but the point is, there’s a lot to think about.

Don Saladino: I wish more people took ownership of this. If you’re taking something, openly admit it. These days, we’re hearing bodybuilders and others on the internet talk about it more openly, and I think that’s a good thing. It should be disclosed. If you’ve taken something, just admit it.

Don Saladino: That honesty and openness are important, especially for the younger kids who are watching.

Mike Matthews: And don’t call it TRT if it’s a steroid dose. If you’re running your testosterone at 5,000 ng/dL, let’s be honest—that’s not TRT.

Don Saladino: Exactly. My testosterone has improved significantly over the last three years. My total testosterone—this isn’t free—went from about 680 to 930. And people are like, “Oh, you’re on something.” No, I’m not.

Don Saladino: And even if I was, it would be higher than that. Let’s be real—it wouldn’t even be worth the injection if that’s all it was.

Don Saladino: People just don’t know what they’re talking about. They ask, “How’d you do that?” Well, I stopped commuting three hours a day into the city. I stopped waking up at 3 a.m. and started waking up at 5:50 a.m.

Don Saladino: You think that might have something to do with it? It’s not just about the cold plunges or the sauna. Sure, I do those things, but think about what I just said—I improved my sleep by two hours.

Mike Matthews: So bedtime stayed the same; you’re just getting more sleep now.

Don Saladino: Exactly. I’m getting more sleep.

Don Saladino: I’ve always been someone who doesn’t go to bed past nine. Back then, I’d go to bed at nine and wake up between three and four a.m. Now, I’m waking up at 5:50. You don’t think that extra sleep makes a difference?

Don Saladino: Plus, eliminating the stress of owning gyms in New York City has been huge for my quality of life. I ran gyms in the city for 15 years. My overhead was $2 million a year just to break even, and I had two locations plus a digital company.

Don Saladino: When you eliminate all of that stress, your quality of life improves, and you just become happier. It’s a different phase of my life, and yeah, things are going to improve. They don’t always have to get worse as you age. But I do think there needs to be a lot more education out there when it comes to this stuff.

Mike Matthews: We’ll get back to today’s episode shortly, but first, I want to tell you about my bestselling fitness book for men who want to gain up to 35 pounds of lean muscle, lose as much fat or more, and do it in just 3 to 5 hours of training per week—without giving up delicious foods or doing grueling workouts.

Mike Matthews: This book is called Bigger, Leaner, Stronger. While it won’t help you pack on absurd amounts of muscle in 30 days or fill your head with dubious diet and exercise hacks, it is a science-based nutrition and exercise book. It will demystify building muscle and losing fat and show you exactly how to achieve a lean, strong, and muscular physique.

Mike Matthews: And you can do it without spending hours in the gym every day or giving up your favorite foods like hamburgers, pizza, and even ice cream. What’s even better is that with the program in the book, you’ll see visible results—in the mirror and in the gym—within your first month.

Mike Matthews: If that sounds too good to be true, I get it. But here’s the thing: muscle building and fat loss aren’t as complicated as you’ve been led to believe.

Mike Matthews: You don’t need to obsess over clean eating or avoid foods like sugar, meat, or bread entirely. Some foods are more nutritious and should be prioritized, but that’s it. You also don’t need to grind through hours of punishing strength training every week.

Mike Matthews: You don’t need to sweat buckets, push to the point of soreness, or train until you’re bone-tired. All of that is overrated for gaining muscle and strength. And you don’t even need to slog away on the treadmill to lose belly fat or get six-pack abs.

Mike Matthews: Sure, there are good reasons to do cardio, but it’s not a must for fat loss.

Mike Matthews: These are just a few of the harmful myths and lies that keep men small, weak, and frustrated. Bigger, Leaner, Stronger teaches you how to cut through the confusion, get rid of the clutter, and build structured, no-nonsense diet and training plans tailored to your goals.

Mike Matthews: That’s why Bigger, Leaner, Stronger is one of the most popular fitness books for men of all time, with over 800,000 copies sold in 16 languages. It’s helped tens of thousands of men transform their bodies, fitness, and health.

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Mike Matthews: The bottom line? You can achieve that head-turning Hollywood physique without weird, extreme, or complicated diet, exercise, or supplement strategies.And Bigger, Leaner, Stronger shows you how. So, head over to Amazon, [00:38:00] grab your copy now, and start your journey to a fitter, leaner, and stronger you.

Mike Matthews: While we’re on the topic, let’s talk about Hollywood. It’s always a source of controversy. A lot of people are quick to blame steroids whenever someone looks really good for a movie. “Oh, yeah, they’re probably on something.” In many cases, probably not, and in some cases, maybe. What are your thoughts? Not asking you to name anyone, of course, but you’ve seen a lot of this behind the scenes.

Don Saladino: Absolutely, I can talk about this. I’d say there’s probably only one other coach I know who has worked with more people in Hollywood than I have, and that’s Gunner Peterson. Gunner’s a good friend of mine, and we joke about it. I say, “Gunner, it’s only because you’re older than me!”

Don Saladino: He’s 60 and looks like he’s 40—one of the nicest guys. He’s one of my favorites.

Don Saladino: Listen, I don’t think anyone in Hollywood looks so amazing that I’d say a human being can’t achieve that naturally.

Mike Matthews: Some would argue it’s about the time. They’d say, “Alright, but they only have two months to gain all that muscle.”

Don Saladino: Fair point, totally fair. But let me give you an example. I worked with Hugh Jackman 18 years ago, when he transitioned from The Boy from Oz to Wolverine in Australia.

Don Saladino: I’m not working with him now—he has a great coach in Texas—but back then, I knew exactly what he was eating, the supplements he was taking, and how we were training.

Don Saladino: He was an intense guy, but let’s be honest—he’s an actor. You bring him into a hardcore gym like Bev Francis’s Powerhouse Gym, and I could show you 200 guys twice as big and twice as strong as he was. But because it’s Hollywood, with the lights, the cameras, and the big screen, people think it’s unattainable.

Don Saladino: Recently, there was this guy—Alan Ritchson, I think, the guy from Jack Reacher. He was doing an interview and said something like, “I trained so hard, I depleted all my testosterone in eight months.” That was his justification for taking exogenous testosterone.

Mike Matthews: Right, and that was his excuse for using it.

Don Saladino: Exactly! I rolled my eyes at that. Just be honest—say you wanted to be massive, so you took it. One of my closest friends, a big-time powerlifter, had kids come up to him and ask, “How’d you get so big?” He straight-up told them, “Drugs.”

Don Saladino: I lost it—it was so funny. But then we told the kids, “Don’t do drugs. It’s not healthy.” And my friend agreed. He’s like, “Yeah, it’s not healthy, but if you want to lift ungodly amounts of weight and be a world-record holder, there are certain things you’ll need to do.”

Don Saladino: It’s obvious when you look at the world’s strongest men. Their size and strength don’t happen naturally—it’s just reality. But in Hollywood, I wish more people took ownership.

Don Saladino: I’ve had natural actors come to me, frustrated, saying, “So-and-so showed up smaller than me, and two months later, he’s twice my size!” I tell them, “Stay in your lane. You don’t need to look like that for your role. Remember, there’s a cost to doing business. That’s the decision you’ve made.”

Don Saladino: I can’t count how much business I’ve lost because I don’t deal with that stuff. Major athletes and Hollywood stars have come to me with questions about drugs, and I tell them, “I’m not the guy for that.”

Mike Matthews: Right, because you’ve decided not to get into that world.

Don Saladino: Exactly. I’ve made a conscious choice. Why would I educate myself on something I’m not going to use? I always tell them, “If you’re considering it, go speak to a qualified physician, not a coach, no matter how smart they think they are.”

Don Saladino: Work with a medical professional who can monitor your bloodwork, assess your health, and guide you properly. Nine out of ten times, they’d walk out and never come back.

Don Saladino: It was a decision I made—not because I think I’m better than anyone, but because I wanted to focus on something else. I put my energy into understanding how to manipulate body composition, improve performance, and enhance aesthetics. That’s what I’m passionate about, and I think that’s why I’ve built the reputation I have in Hollywood.

Mike Matthews: Do you think there’s a general perception out there that steroids are responsible for a lot of Hollywood transformations?

 Would you say that you agree or disagree with that statement based on your experience?

Don Saladino: I think it’s out there a lot. I think it’s, I think it’s probably out there a lot more now or some type of… When I say manipulation, [00:45:00] I mean, yeah, like, oh, well, your testosterone’s at 300. It’s a little low. I buried my best friend in 2010.

Don Saladino: He was my head coach and, um, he didn’t have a family. We had to claim rights to his body. Um, otherwise it goes to something called Potter’s Field in New York. So they actually had to hold his body for two weeks. I had to go down to city hall. I had to claim his body. I, they finally gave me rights to his body.

Don Saladino: I had to identify him two weeks after he died, which is one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do. And I had to bury him. And when we did this, I had an autopsy done because I wanted to know—he’s 43. Right. So 2000, you know, 2010, that’s 14, 15 years ago for me. I’m—shit—I’m 33. Ten years older than me, roughly.

Don Saladino: And, um, you know, his T levels were north of 3000. And I just saw… I just saw this terrible, you know, downward spiral he went on, and this will piss a lot of people off because the people taking it don’t think they’re all, well, you didn’t have [00:46:00] anyone monitoring it. Bullshit. He did have people monitoring it.

Don Saladino: He knew what he was doing. He just, it got to a point where he became addicted to this feeling that he just kept taking more and more and more and he couldn’t get off of it. Then when he got off it, he felt worse. So he took more. And guess what? That’s what a drug addict does. Right. So even with something like testosterone, which most people say, well, it’s not, it’s cute.

Don Saladino: It’s not a, it’s not a steroid. It’s not. Yeah, but it can be abused and it can be abused. I’m sorry.

Mike Matthews: I mean, it, it, it factually is a steroid hormone as well. Like, uh, according to the dictionary, I mean, I don’t know.

Don Saladino: According to the dictionary. Yes. But like, I mean, a lot of people will start categorizing things now differently.

Don Saladino: Like, well, it’s not Tren and it’s not a Dianabol. But of course that these are coping mechanisms. Exactly. Exactly. And I’m glad you, I’m glad you gave that kind of side-eye look there because, um, sometimes if I have a conversation with someone, they’re like, they’ll come at you, attack you. Just the other day, I heard someone [00:47:00] on the internet saying, well, is it, is it creatine a controlled substance now?

Don Saladino: Isn’t that like you think they were trying to put creatine on the level of taking a hormone? And I’m like, what are you talking about? Like creatine’s in meat. How is that the same?

Mike Matthews: Yeah, I don’t want to eat like four steaks a day. So I take a gram of creatine monohydrate or take a, I take a little scooper of creatine monohydrate.

Don Saladino: Yeah. So it’s just, it’s fascinating to me now. Everyone’s got this clever way of twisting things and, and justifying it. Do I think it’s in Hollywood a lot? Yes. Do I think you’re going to see it in Hollywood more now? Yes, because a lot of these hormones are going to become so easily available. To a lot of these actors, and I think it really comes down to, you know, who’s willing to take that dive or not.

Don Saladino: And, uh, it’s going—I mean, I’m really not working with people one-on-one anymore, but if I was, I guess it would get to a point where I would be training people, probably wouldn’t even know about it because they would probably just keep it from me. And, you know, they would have some other guy for that and, you know, that’s it. [00:48:00]

Don Saladino: Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s—that’s this. These are the things that are happening now, but to answer your question, I think it’s seen a lot more than we think.

Mike Matthews: Interesting. And for people listening, uh, wondering why that is, it’s simply because these drugs work really, really well. So it’s been shown in research, for example, that, uh, simply taking steroids—I’m thinking of one study in particular—can produce more.

Mike Matthews: And this was just testosterone. And it wasn’t necessarily a—it was super physiological, but it wasn’t necessarily the big bodybuilder dose. So just taking testosterone can produce more muscle growth in an untrained individual, uh, over the course of, I want to say the study was 10 to 12 weeks, than training and eating well.

Mike Matthews: So just think about that.

Don Saladino: Yeah. Okay. So that, that might help that, that might help a lot of these actors out, but—

Mike Matthews: No, I am not endorsing it. I mean, like you, uh, I’m going to stay drug-free as long as I can. If my testosterone, if I’m 75 years old and it’s 200 NGDL, I’ve done everything I can. My quality of life sucks.

Mike Matthews: My dick doesn’t work, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m getting on [00:49:00] TRT.

Don Saladino: I always wonder, I always wonder by, by, by then, right? Like, let’s say someone—I think someone asked me this recently, like you’re 80. And, you know, suddenly things have evolved so much. I mean, that’s 32, 33 years from now, right? It’s, you know, think about what we’re going to have access to.

Don Saladino: Think about 32, 33 years ago to 32, 33 years from now. It’s like, who knows what we have access to by then, but like, are you taking it? And I’m like, I don’t know. It’s like, I don’t know if that by then I’m like, fuck it. I’m just, you know, I’ve gone this long already and I’m just going to turn my head and ride it out.

Mike Matthews: I mean, theoretically though, right, if your quality of life—because as you probably know, there are true clinical symptoms where you could absolutely make a good argument that as a man living with clinically low testosterone is unhealthy. And so if you’ve done everything you can to bring that up naturally, and that’s it—it’s just—

Mike Matthews: You know, your body is old and worn out, and it’s [00:50:00] living like that or exogenous. You probably could make just a simple net benefits argument for the exogenous.

Don Saladino: Totally, totally, totally, um, 100 percent. A great buddy of mine that, um, was blown up in Afghanistan. He had like over 30 surgeries. Nose was blown off his head. Jaw bolts went through his face. Arm was blown off, reattached, and it got to the point where he finally got on something, and he got all over an incredible hurdle, and he’s living an incredible life. His body composition is in a good place. His energy level is high, and he’s happy. And I’m like, “Oh my God, go, go, go.”

Don Saladino: Um, I’ve had clients in here that I’ve worked with. I’ve had people I’ve worked with that are 872 pounds. I’ve had a guy who started with me here—a friend—who was five and a quarter, and he actually never wanted to take anything. He’s so scared about even taking like Manjaro or one of those, um, you know, one of those peptides.

Don Saladino: Yeah, one of those GLP-1s. So, um, you know, I think, again, it’s to each his own. I think certain people are really nervous about the long-term effects, but like I said, [00:51:00] God, 30 years from now, we’re going to know a lot.

Mike Matthews: Absolutely. You mentioned earlier—coming back to Hollywood—I don’t want to belabor it, but it’s just something you mentioned that I made a mental note to come back to. It’s how big of a difference lighting and camera can make.

Mike Matthews: And I think the reason I want to bring it up is just for people listening, to make sure that if they’re going to compare themselves to things, they at least understand what they are seeing and what they are comparing themselves to.

Don Saladino: It’s unbelievable what they can do with lighting and camera angles.

Don Saladino: And, oh my God, it’s incredible. And it’s not to take away the shape that a lot of these actors have to get into—they work hard—and they, um, and again, remember, this isn’t their craft. This isn’t like, they’re not a bodybuilder, you know, they’re not a professional athlete that’s been doing this most of their life.

Don Saladino: And so they know a lot of times they come in here, they have to learn these skills, you know, to be able to get this type of shape, right? You [00:52:00] turn to Sebastian Stan, and he’s got to resistance train for Avengers, and they’re like, “But no, Seb, you’ve got to do three hours of sword fight training a day.”And he’s like, what, like, what are you talking about? These are things people don’t think about. That’s stress, and that’s activity, and this is going to tire them out. Think about all this that’s on their plate now. So yeah, it’s, um, it really is my, um, my respect for them over, you know, the last 20—I’ve been in the business over 25 years.

Don Saladino: I think I took my first one-on-one about 20 years ago. Um, it’s extraordinary what they have to do in such little time.

Mike Matthews: And in terms of what you see on the screen, just for, for people who don’t know, what is that difference between, okay, you’re there in person while they’re shooting and not to take away from anything that they’ve done.

Mike Matthews: As you said, they’ve worked hard. They’ve gotten into great shape, but then you see the final production on TV, and what, what is that Delta, so to speak, in terms of what you’re seeing, where you’re like, dude, that guy looks 15 [00:53:00] pounds bigger than, you know what I mean?

Don Saladino: How many times have we gotten in mirrors in a dressing room?

Don Saladino: And we’re like, Oh my God, I don’t look like that. Right? Like this is, this is it. Or it’s like, Oh my God, like this is the best mirror or suddenly. You know, I’m like, Oh my God, I look terrible. Like there’s, there’s lighting. I can lift these shades up right now and bleach these lights out. If I take my shirt off, I am not going to look anywhere as defined.

Don Saladino: And if I drop the shades, dip the lighting, get some lighting coming in at a different angle, do a couple of pushups, get a pump. Like I’m going to look a lot different. I’m going to, I can do a before and after and trick everyone and say, this is 12 weeks later, they’re going to be like, what? Like, this is—so think about what Hollywood can do.

Don Saladino: I can do that in a few minutes.

Mike Matthews: I, I did that once, so I—it just reminds me where I—I didn’t do a cover. Uh, it was just getting lean for some marketing and stuff, and, and so I, I was taking a nap outside. So it was in the sun, fully, you know, so that’s just sunlight, bla, in Florida. Coming down on me, somebody took a picture of me laying down, and so I’m [00:54:00] so I’m sleeping.

Mike Matthews: So no muscle tension, right? And then just a few days later, it was the photo shoot, and I was probably around 6 or 7%. So pretty lean and I have, I have a bit of size, right? So pretty vascular or whatever. And people had a hard time believing that those were just a few days apart because of how shockingly different it looked.

Don Saladino: God, you can manipulate so much. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s fascinating, but it’s still—I never wanted to take away from the work that’s being put in. I mean, at the end of the day, even when I go to, uh, I’ve been to probably 15 to 20 Mr. Olympia competitions. I want to be very clear here. Just because someone’s on a performance-enhancing substance doesn’t mean they’re going to look like that, right? Or it doesn’t mean they’re going to be able to perform like someone in the NFL. Like, it takes a special athlete, a special individual to be able to create, develop the skill sets that these people have developed, whether it’s standing on stage and posing or whether it’s, you know, being in the NFL, different skill sets.

Don Saladino: But man, the amount of work, the amount of effort, the discipline that, um, [00:55:00] I think a lot of these people have to put in to get there, especially with bodybuilders. I’m fascinated with, I’ll just go, and you’ll go to the Olympia, and you’ll look at, you know, the classic physique. Now, it’s probably one of the biggest categories.

Don Saladino: So you’ll look at 100 guys in the back competing. You know, what are they taking? Top five? It’s like, Oh my God. And I can guarantee most people are going to be able to go look at the winner, Chris Bumstead this year. So, you know, the guy who finished 20th or 25th, and if they look at him side by side and they don’t know what they’re looking at, they’re going to be like, Uh, uh, who won?

Don Saladino: Like, it’s, it’s, but the amount, even if someone finishes 20th, it’s like the amount of discipline, the amount of effort, and the amount of work—for me, that’s what I respect the most.

Mike Matthews: Absolutely. You mentioned that with some of these covers that you did recently, you didn’t bother cutting water, and I wanted to come back to that because that also is just the topic of how to look a certain way is something that has just come up over the years where, so typically, the way I’ve received it is people [00:56:00] asking about—usually it’s around some sort of event, right?So maybe it’s a wedding or it’s a guy who wants to look particularly good on the beach for some reason or whatever. Uh, and, and that leads to then, are there any strategies aside from, so there’s one school, which is just, you just got to get really lean, forget about everything else, just keep losing fat.

Mike Matthews: And that’s one approach. And then there’s another approach of getting lean plus other things like cutting water, reducing carbs, or reducing then increasing. What are your thoughts on these things? And I’m sure you’ve done a lot of these things. So you’re speaking firsthand as well.

Don Saladino: Yeah, I think it depends on the starting point, right?

Don Saladino: I think someone like me, who’s going to walk around really lean all year long, and I never go in any massive bulking phases. I mean, I’m like 6 foot 1. I probably, in a year, will weigh anywhere between like 207 to as much as maybe 219. And that’s—I don’t even think that’s a true 219 to 220. That’s probably after a bad weekend, retaining some water.

Don Saladino: So I don’t think so. That sounds like that’s a big fluctuation, but it really isn’t. I mean, [00:57:00] I can wake up one morning and be five pounds lighter. It’s just, you know, and you know that.

Mike Matthews: Yeah. Or, or heavier. You can just eat a bunch of carbs and a bunch of salt and weigh five more pounds.

Don Saladino: Well, 100%. So I, I think when I manipulated for a couple of photo shoots years ago, like 2013, 2014, and I did like water manipulation, carb manipulation, I just remember how shitty I felt those few times I did it. It was a true contest prep, and I made it through. I was disciplined, went to the shoot date, and felt like I looked great.

Don Saladino: That, in comparison to me doing what I refer to as more of a healthier cut—um, I did not get that much leaner. I was almost like, I’ll show you pictures and you’re like, wow, that’s comparable. Like, that’s the one to cut water for, and this is the one that you didn’t. And I was like, yeah. I just found because all year long, I’m consuming like a higher level of calories and my macros, I’m never really going low carb, I’m never going low [00:58:00] fat, but I’m eating a high-quality diet that’s high fiber, nutrient-dense, you know.

Don Saladino: I’m turning around, getting, if I’m getting 500–600 grams of carbs in a day with 250 to 275 grams of protein, say 130 grams of fat, when my body’s used to processing that and running through that, the second I have to prepare for a cover, if I drop that 500 to 300, keep the protein around the same and drop the fats from, say, 130 to 90, that’s a massive deficit, but my calories are still pretty high.

Don Saladino: So, what I found with my body is that, you know, I might lose 5, 6, 7 pounds in a week. And then after that, for the next 3, 4 weeks, I might lose like a pound, a pound and a half. But every day I’m waking up and I’m like, Oh my God, I’ve got a new vein coming down from my neck to my chest, and my arms are more vascular. Then out of nowhere, like a week or two in, I’m starting to see veins come through my abdominals.

Don Saladino: It’s just from the fact that I think I’m [00:59:00] used to processing a high amount of calories. And then suddenly, when I go into a deficit, this is like most people’s surpluses. So my metabolism’s used to being pretty efficient. So I think that’s something that’s worked really, really well for me.

Don Saladino: Also, another thing—I don’t change training in the sense of why people get in the mindset like, oh, I got to sweat, I got to start doing circuit work, or like. I’m like, no, no, not at all. I’m actually like, I take really more of a power-building approach in most of my training. Like, I love it throughout the year.

Don Saladino: Most of the time. And I’m not saying I don’t work on work capacity or I don’t change training up. But most of the time, like, bench, squat, deadlift. Pull-off overhead pressing. These are lifts I want to make sure that are pretty strong, and then everything else I can get the unilateral work, et cetera. But those, those, you know, that big three—bench, squat, deadlift.

Don Saladino: Yeah, I’m focusing more on power and strength there, and this is allowing me to stay somewhat dense. And then I feel like everything else I’m going into is more like [01:00:00] a hypertrophy approach. So when I’m, you know, a week or two out from a cover, I’m pulling 500 off the floor. Like, I’m squatting a heavy weight, like I’m hitting fives and threes, and I’m doing these things that I feel like allow my muscle to stay hard and dense. Where I’m someone that everything goes to high repetitions.

Don Saladino: Well, for a week or two, I’m going to feel sore. I’m going to get some nasty pumps. I’m going to feel great. But then after that, I’m going to start feeling like I’m getting a little bit weaker and I’m actually going to feel like my body starts getting flat. So that’s an approach that, you know, I’ve taken for a while. Maintaining that muscle strength and that density for me is something that I think has allowed me to have pretty good body composition throughout the year.

Don Saladino: So when I decide to start prepping for something, or I get a call to prep for something, it’s not like, you know, Oh, aren’t you running around? And it’s like, all right, well, yeah, like. By doing more cardio. Sure. I’m doing more steady-state cardio. Well, why aren’t you doing high-intensity training? Well, it’d be a little too taxing for the amount I have to train to prepare for this, right?

Don Saladino: Steady-state cardio. The easy thing about it, as you know, is we could just do a lot of it. Right. And, um, [01:01:00] exactly. But it’s like people want to like kind of shit on it a bunch and be like, well, you know, studies show that high, high, high intensity. Yes. There’s a place for that. There’s a place for this. So I just think people need to be well-rounded.

Don Saladino: And I—again, that coaching element of recognizing what the individual needs, I think, is what makes a good coach a good coach.

Mike Matthews: Oh, actually, can I, can I, can I ask—so you mentioned sauna and cold plunge, can you talk a little bit about those things and maybe any other of these other interventions that—I mean, some of them are, so red light is kind of trendy right now.

Mike Matthews: And I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I’m just saying that.

Don Saladino: I love red lights. I have a red light bed being delivered to me in like two or three weeks. Um, so yeah, I’ve got a revived red light bed coming to me. So I’m really interested because I’ve committed to a red light mask, and I have a stand-up lamp downstairs.

Don Saladino: But, um, I just want to get a little bit more educated on it because it’s a little bit more, uh, those bulbs are gonna be a lot more [01:02:00] stronger, and getting on a consistent regimen where I’m actually laying down and my whole body can get, uh, exposed to red light, front and back. Um, it’s interesting. Plunging I use, I actually feel great from plunging.Don Saladino: I, I’ll use it either sometimes when I wake up. First thing I’ll use it on days off. Uh, I feel great doing it. I use, uh, it’s called a Renew. Uh, it’s been my favorite plunge and I have, uh, I have, uh, an infrared sauna that I have outside and then I have one that’s inside.

Mike Matthews: And you prefer the infrared over a traditional?

Don Saladino: I’ve always, I’ve always liked it. I don’t, I don’t like going into these really hot 180, 190 degree saunas. Where you just feel like you’re going to die. Like I like being in the sauna at 140, you know, anywhere from 130 to 150 degrees. I’ll do emails. I’ll be sitting there sweating like a pig, having a conversation with my training buddy.

Don Saladino: We’ll spend 20, 30 minutes there. We’ll jump at the plunge on an off day for three [01:03:00] minutes and you just feel great. So I feel like that’s enhanced my recovery a bit. I don’t think that there’s any benefit if it’s ever, because now you’re hearing, well, it’s like, I’ve never, I’ve been, I’ve been cold plunging for 25 years.

Don Saladino: I don’t know if I’ve ever, you know, I’ve cold plunged after workouts. I’ve had a cold on days off. I really don’t cold plunge after workouts. I may be doing it on off days, but I’ve never had, I’ve never seen a downside to it. So, um, and then on top of that, what else do I use? I’ll use it. I really like this new unit called, uh, Firefly, which is these. I don’t want to describe it as Normatecs, but they’re almost like these little sticky bands.

Don Saladino: That gives you off impulses that help reduce circulation throughout the body. So you could throw them on your knees, it’s got a plus-minus button. It’s got a 30-hour lifespan. They’re super inexpensive. I’ll give them to Pete. Like my next-door neighbor’s got cerebral palsy. He’s in a [01:04:00] wheelchair.

Don Saladino: So we’ll get him a pair, right? Um, a buddy of mine, who’s had some knee surgeries that, um, you know, he’s always looking for more circulation. He’s wearing them. My uncle almost had his leg amputated because of cancer and one of his legs isn’t working well anymore. We’ll throw that on him. And he’s already noticed drastic improvement in how his body’s feeling and actually bringing some movement back into his toes.

Don Saladino: So I think there are some really great things out there. I just, again, it’s the, for someone like my uncle or Christian, who’s my neighbor next door, that’s pretty severe, right? Like those things that we’re talking about, how it’s helping them out, pretty severe. Someone like myself, I think it’s like throwing a cherry on top of the whipped cream, which is on the ice cream. Like this is,

Mike Matthews: It’s probably in the same category of supplements. Like they’re supplemental by definition.

Don Saladino: Thank you. Perfectly said. That’s exactly what I just said. People start putting so much value into these things and they’re like, do something hard every day. And I’m like, well, it’s not really hard.

Don Saladino: I was doing these things really hard. I think doing what’s hard, [01:05:00] I think hard is like waking up when you’re tired and continuing to do your routine that you don’t want to do.

Mike Matthews: It wasn’t, it wasn’t hard when, when, uh, we were 20. Sleep? What was sleep? It didn’t even matter, but it’s different now, at least for me, like five hours does

Don Saladino: Not feeling the same anymore.

Don Saladino: It doesn’t. But yeah, I think if people want to pay attention to doing the hard things, be consistent with your nutrition, get to bed on time every night, try and, you know, eliminate or limit alcohol, get high protein. Like these, these are not sexy things, but they’re definitely going to pay the biggest dividends.

Mike Matthews: Have you looked into the newbie machine? N E U?

Don Saladino: Oh yeah. I have heard of this.

Mike Matthews: Um,

Don Saladino: I don’t

Mike Matthews: Describe it to me again. I feel like I’ve used it.

Mike Matthews: So it’s a DC, so it’s a direct current STEM. It’s pretty expensive. I don’t know much about

Don Saladino: It. Oh, is it, it’s shockwave therapy?

Mike Matthews: Uh, that’s possible that it can be used. Yeah, that might be categorized that way. However, I know, so I’ve been on it. I don’t have one. I’ve been on it before. And so [01:06:00] it’s direct current STEM and it’s a high-end direct current STEM with rehab settings. And then also with, like, training hypertrophy settings where you can, you can, uh, heavily stimulate target muscle groups, uh, and achieve maximum contraction.

Mike Matthews: It’s, it’s intense. And I’ve seen some bodybuilders now catching on to this. It seems interesting. I haven’t, I haven’t messed around with it much because I don’t have one. I just had access to one through somebody I know.

Don Saladino: There’s a bodybuilder at, uh, Max Charles. That’s who it is. Max Charles. Um, he’s a four-time Olympian.

Don Saladino: Um, he trains at Beth Francis Powerhouse Gym. And this guy for the last, no joke, it has to be seven, eight years, has been walking around the gym, pushing a cart with this machine. Literally, like he brings, he literally has a guy he’s hooked up to these, like, electrodes and he’s pushing in a machine. He’s got another, [01:07:00] another guy following him, I think, to like to assist with him. And, uh, it’s, it’s fascinating.

Don Saladino: So yes, I, I have seen this, I just,

Mike Matthews: All right. Last question for beer wandering supplements. Do you take any supplements?

Don Saladino: I do. Creatine monohydrate. I mean, I’ve been taking that for probably close to 30 years now. Um, I take magnesium. I take that before bed. I take fish oils. Um, I also take vitamin D.

Don Saladino: Sometimes I’ll take amino acids if my protein might be low that day or if I’m dieting. I take a great sleep bundle right now, um, from a new company that’s about to launch called Spoken. Um, they gave me access to it. I love it because it’s got magnesium, it’s got L-theanine, it’s got inositol, it’s got glycine, all the good sleep, uh, sleep aids, um, L-glutamine, and you know, I’ll take a protein supplement and I gotta take a protein powder.

Don Saladino: But it’s been so much, it’s so funny, all the, all the [01:08:00] literature right now that people are putting out there like, is protein powder good at making you fat? And I’m just like, Oh my God, is that a, I actually have not seen that.

Mike Matthews: That’s—yeah, actually Dr. Gabrielle Lyon just had to address it because people were like, protein, I heard protein powders make you fat.

Don Saladino: Right. We said that I don’t, did you hear that? Like, supposedly he’s like suing Grant Cardone. This just popped up the other day. I was laughing.

Mike Matthews: I, I, I saw that, uh, I don’t know how I came across her. Somebody told me, yes, I’ve heard that. I don’t know the details. I guess he got kicked out and then they got mad at each other.

Mike Matthews: I don’t know. Actually, I don’t know the details. I’m no fan of Brekka though, he’s, he is a quack to end all quackery, so. Uh, my, my opinion, caveat, whatever.

Mike Matthews: No, no, no, it’s fine, I mean, he’s not, um. I’ve seen, I’ve just seen him say so much nonsense that what else am I supposed to, what else am I supposed to conclude?

Mike Matthews: If you want to play doctor, go become a doctor. So, I don’t know.

Don Saladino: I think a lot of these guys get a bit fluffy.

Mike Matthews: Well, it’s biohacking. That’s the [01:09:00] red flag. Anyone who calls themselves a biohacker, red flag.

Don Saladino: But who was it? Dave Asprey was talking about, um, how, um, don’t eat, don’t eat oats. It, um, it, it’ll make you fat.

Don Saladino: Yeah. I, I, I scream ice cream is healthier for you than oatmeal. And I’m like, that’s just irresponsible. Like, how can you be that stupid? And, um, the one guy I got a kick out of recently though, cause I talked out of this event called pneumonia at West Palm, that guy, Brian Johnson, the one trying to live to be like, whatever he’s like, you know what?

Mike Matthews: Kind of looks so—he looks kind of like a lizard already or something or maybe a vampire. He looks like a, like a, like a vampire.

Don Saladino: He looks flat out kooky. I totally get it, but he gets it too. And he’s like, listen, I’m a kook. You flat out said it. And people were like, what I didn’t respect. Everyone lives the life that they want to live, hopefully, right?

Don Saladino: Like, if you have the ability to live the way you want to live, that’s, that to me is like true wealth. Yeah, and spend your money. It’s your money. Do whatever you [01:10:00] want. Exactly. But like, people were coming at him, like, the women in The View were like, have a life. I’m like, kind of thinking to myself, I felt bad for him.

Don Saladino: I’m like, this is the life he wants to live. This is what he’s doing. He seems really happy. And, uh, whatever. But he at least took ownership over the fact that what he does is a bit weird and strange. And a lot of doctors were coming on. They’re like, this is not going to be so, um, backed evidence and this isn’t science and this.

Don Saladino: He’s just like, listen, I just want to see what I can do with the human body. And for me, I have the money, I have the resources. This is something that I enjoy doing and I’m going to take advantage of it. When he kind of put it that way, I was like, how do you argue with that? Like…

Mike Matthews: Leave the guy alone.

Don Saladino: Yeah.

Mike Matthews: I mean, from what I’ve seen from him, uh, it seems like—I don’t pay too much attention, but from what I’ve seen—a fair amount of it is based on existing literature and then a fair amount of it is speculative, but it’s not absurd.

Mike Matthews: It’s based on mechanics that can be explained that at least align with how the human body works. And yes, it is speculative where we don’t know if this really does [01:11:00] something or not. And, uh, so long as such protocols are presented that way, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that per se. And even if you were to say like, I actually don’t recommend that I’m doing it because this is kind of my thing.

Mike Matthews: I don’t recommend that everyone does it because I don’t know, it may actually be bad for me. Some of this stuff we’ll see.

Don Saladino: Yeah, yeah, it’s a, it’s a little, I mean, the whole industry has become a little much of the biohackers. Most of them to me should just kind of go away. And that sounds pretty terrible for me to say, but I don’t know.

Don Saladino: You’ve got really intelligent doctors out there. You’ve got people who are like, you know, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, uh, Dr. Dwayne Jackson, who’s kind of more of an unknown and he’s one of Prescript’s doctors. And even like listening to Huberman the other day—I had dinner with him, like a super smart guy, working at the Cold Spring Labs right over here.

Don Saladino: Like, people hate him because he’s just found a way to become really successful. And he’s in the media a little bit. The guy’s super smart. So it’s like, these are the people I’d rather listen to. These people. Like, why am I, why am I going to go listen to a biohacker who’s just [01:12:00] kind of, you know, walking around with blue light blockers all day?

Don Saladino: I just, I think—and the reason why it sounds a little abrasive, how I’m putting it, it’s just, I think they become a bit irresponsible. Their behavior becomes irresponsible when they’re coming in with this one-size-fits-all approach or when they’re turning around to people, someone in the Midwest right now who’s been eating Egg McMuffins every morning.

Don Saladino: And suddenly they’re like, you know what? I got instant oats, Quaker instant oats, and it’s, um, it’s cinnamon flavor and it’s got some fiber in it. And my doctor’s telling me this is better for me than the Egg McMuffin. What’s better for you? Be honest with what the fuck’s better for you.

Don Saladino: But now you’re telling this person who’s trying to make a little bit of an effort. You’re discouraging them by saying, well, you’re better off eating ice cream because the oats are the worst thing for you to eat. That’s irresponsible. Coaching is about finding the level a person’s at. And you know what? Taking a minimalistic approach sometimes to give them a little bit more.

Don Saladino: You’re not always going to be able to turn around.

Mike Matthews: Just that’s, that’s actually all that works with most people. You have the exception, but with most people.

Don Saladino: Right. Every once in a while, there’s this diamond in the rough. There’s this type A person where you’re like, here, see you in three months, and they come back, and they’re like, look, and you’re like, holy shit.

Don Saladino: Like, it was that easy. It’s not the reality, but these people are getting irresponsible in their behavior and the, and the information they’re giving. It’s really messing people up, it’s really confusing them, and it’s keeping them away from being able to take the right steps. And, um, so, so that’s, that’s my only reservation with some of the biohackers is when they.

Mike Matthews: It’s also unethical. A lot of the claims that are made are just false. So we’re talking about essentially lying for a living.

Don Saladino: It’s lying.

Mike Matthews: Correct. Lying for a living, like that’s basically what I do. I lie for a living.

Don Saladino: Basically, it’s just turning around saying, I’m going to say this to, uh, as could be, make money. That’s it.

Mike Matthews: Yeah, make money. Ultimately, it’s just to make money. Well, uh, we’ve gone on another almost 20 minutes now. So, uh, again, I appreciate the time. Why don’t we wrap up quickly, with where people can find you, find your work. If [01:14:00] there’s anything in particular that you want them to know about.

Don Saladino: DonSaladino.com is my site, kind of spells everything out there. Uh, host programs, challenges, do consulting. I’ve got a new podcast launching with the Gaines family, Joanna and Chip Gaines from Magnolia this year. I’m writing a book. I just signed a deal with Countryman Press. So I’ve rolled that out. Ryan Reynolds is writing the foreword.

Don Saladino: Got some great projects this year. I’m really excited about it. If anyone has any questions, shoot me a DM. Mike, thanks for having me on. It was a pleasure. Hope to meet you in person.

Mike Matthews: Absolutely. Thank you.

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Mike Matthews: Well, I hope you liked this episode. I hope you found it helpful. And if you did, subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don’t miss new episodes.

Mike Matthews: And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you.

Mike Matthews: And if you didn’t like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have ideas or suggestions, or just feedback to share, shoot me an email at [email protected] and let me know what I can do better or just what your thoughts are about maybe what you’d like to see me do in the future.

Mike Matthews: I read everything myself. I’m always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode, and I hope to hear from you soon.