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This episode of the podcast is a bit different. That’s because in this podcast, I chat with Alex Banayan about his book The Third Door, the journey he went on in the process of writing it, and what he learned along the way. 

We’ll get into the details in the interview, but Alex went on a seven-year quest to interview some of the world’s brightest, most successful people in order to learn how they broke through in their respective fields.

It all started with the common existential crisis of “what do I want to do with my life” and his research led him down a road filled with life-changing interviews with Bill Gates, Quincy Jones, Steve Wozniak, Lady Gaga, Warren Buffett, Maya Angelou, Steven Spielberg, Jane Goodall, Larry King, and more (and some wild stories).

Now if you’re wondering why I thought this was worthy of a podcast, many of my followers are entrepreneurs, people who want to succeed more in their careers, or people who want to improve themselves in general. So while this interview isn’t directly fitness-related, I think you’ll find it interesting and useful.

In our discussion, Alex and I talk about . . .

  • How he “hacked” The Price Is Right to raise funds for his book idea
  • How he managed to secure big-time interviews
  • The mindset commonalities he found among famous, successful people
  • The difference between fearlessness and courage
  • Social media and the importance and relativity of money
  • And more . . .

If you’re not familiar with Alex, The Third Door has made him the youngest bestselling business author in American history, and the book is a number one international bestseller. He’s been named to Forbes’ 30 Under 30 list and Business Insider’s “Most Powerful People Under 30,” and been featured in Fortune, CNBC, Businessweek, The Washington Post, MSNBC, Fox News, and NBC News.

So if you want to hear some of Alex’s wild stories from his journey and what he learned on his quest to study success, definitely check out this interview!


0:00 – Pre-order my new fitness book now for a chance to win over $13,000 in splendid swag:

7:07 – What is the premise of the book?                   

13:01 – How Alex hacked The Price Is Right                                 

15:21 – How did you get interviews with famous people?                                   

17:16 – How successful people treat business                       

20:14 – The difference between fearlessness and courage                               

26:12 – What have you found fulfilling and is there anything you thought would be fulfilling that hasn’t been?                               

31:50 – What you think you want and what you really want may not be the same                                 

42:45 – Who is the third door for?                               

44:05 – Dealing with setbacks                                

51:48 – The opposite of success isn’t failure                                   

53:32 – What types of mistakes are acceptable to you?      

Mentioned on the Show:

Pre-order my new fitness book now for a chance to win over $13,000 in splendid swag:

The Third Door

Alex Banayan’s website

Alex’s Instagram

What did you think of this episode? Have anything else to share? Let me know in the comments below!


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Real stuff too, not just lame PDFs that I say are worth a hundred dollars each. Check it out Muscle for Life Book dot. Howdy, howdy. This is Muscle for Life, and I am Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today. And quickly, if you haven’t already, please do subscribe to the show in whatever app you are listening to me in so you don’t miss any new episodes.

And it helps me because it boosts the ranking of the show in the various charts. And so this episode is a little bit different. I enjoyed it. It was a nice change of pace. Uh, I chatted with Alex Benign about his book The Third Door, which is all about, uh, a journey and Odyssey. He went on to learn about success, to learn what some of the most successful people in the world, in different areas and different disciplines attributed their success too, to learn how they broke through in their respective fields.

And this quest of Alex’s started with the proverbial existential crisis of what should I do with my life? Should I keep doing what my parents want me to do with it? Or should I follow my own inner voice? And as you can guess, Alex went with his gut and he went for what Excited him, which ultimately culminated in this book The Third Door.

And in it you learn what he learned from interviews that he did over the course of, if I remember correctly, seven years with Bill Gates, Quincy Jones, Steve Wozniak, lady Gaga, Warren Buffet, Stephen Spielberg, Jane Goodall, Larry King, and many other luminaries. And of course, he shares some very interesting stories about how he got to do these interviews because Alex was not a celebrity.

His parents were not. Connected. He didn’t come from Hollywood royalty, for example. He was just a kid in college who had a wild hair and decided to pursue it to the bitter end to do whatever it took to make this book a reality. And as for why I brought Alex onto the show, why I thought this was worthy of a Muscle for Life podcast.

I know that many of my followers, many of my listeners, many of my readers are not just fitness folk, but they are also entrepreneurs. They are people who want to succeed in their careers. Maybe they’re not entrepreneurs, maybe they work somewhere, but they’re always looking to do better in their work and move up the ladder.

Uh, and also I have a lot of people in my orbit who just want to improve themselves in any way they can. And so while this interview is not directly related to health or fitness, I do think you are going to find it interesting and useful if you are one of the people I just mention. Hey, Alex, thanks for taking some time, uh, out of your afternoon to come talk to me.

Alex: I’m stoked to be here, man. Thank you 

Mike: for having me. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I, I, I’m, I have been looking forward to this conversation because it’s, uh, it’s a, it’s a, a change of of gears for me. As I was saying before we start recording, most of my time goes into producing health, health and fitness related content, but I do, I do dabble in, in business and career advice and, 

Alex: and so I’m happy to dabble with you.

I’m happy to dabble with you. Yeah, 

Mike: exactly. So, uh, and, and I know I have a lot of people following me who are entrepreneurs or. Considering going down that path or who want to, uh, succeed more in the career that they’ve chosen, even if it’s not, you know, owning their own business. And a lot of people who just want to improve themselves in, in many different ways.

And of course, of course health and fitness is one of those ways. And, um, so that’s why I thought it would make sense to get you on the show and, and talk about the, not just the book that, that you wrote, which people can see if you’re watching there, the third door, uh, but, but also what you, what you learned through that experience.

Um, so maybe, maybe we should start this interview. We can skip all the backstory. I’ll mention that kind of stuff in the intro, but, uh, what, what is that, this book, what is the premise of the book? And then from there I have some specific questions that, uh, I have for the, that, that speak more to the content of the book.


Alex: So, you know, with the third door, the basic premise is it’s the seven year quest to. Uncover the mindset of success. So I spent, you know, the past 10 years obsessively studying success. I, you know, spent thousands of hours researching, going through hundreds of biographies, and most importantly, sitting down one on one and asking questions to the people I was dying to get answers from.

So for business, I interviewed Bill Gates for music, lady Gaga, science, Jane Goodall, poetry, Maya Angelou, uh, Steve Wosniak, Larry King, Quincy Jones, Jessica, pit Bull’s been this really exciting journey, uh, filled a surprising lessons at every turn. And to give a little context of how the whole journey got started, I sort have to take you back 10 years.

So I was a freshman in college and I spend every day lying on my dorm room bed staring up at the ceiling. And I don’t know if you ever went through the, what I wanna do with my life crisis, uh, but I was going through it and it was hitting me really hard. And to understand why I was going through it, you have to understand that I’m the son of Persian Jewish immigrants.

Which pretty much means I came out of the womb, my mom cradled me in her arms and then she slammed MD on my behind and said, send me on my way. Yep. You know, you know the story and you know, 

Mike: I’ve had, I’ve had, uh, friends over the years similar, similar experience in Indian friends in particular. It’s also, I guess, pretty common.

Alex: Yeah. And it’s, it’s funny cuz when you’re kid you don’t even realize it’s happening. You just think this is a normal life. Yeah. And you know, in third grade I wore scrubs to school for Halloween and thought I was cool. Um, surprised I wasn’t my attending parties, you know, and most likely 

Mike: to become a serial killer.

Uh, yeah, 

Alex: I, I remember. But, you know, I kept going because in high school I checked the boxes, I took all the biology classes. I, you know, stayed hard for SATs. I even went to pre-med summer camp. So by the time I got to college and the pre-med of prem. But very quickly I find myself lying on this dormroom bed looking at this towering stack of biology books, feeling like you’re sucking the life outta me.

And at first I assumed, you know, maybe I’m just being lazy. But very quickly I began to wonder, maybe I’m not on my path. Maybe I’m on a path to somebody’s placed me on it and I’m scrolling down. So now, not only do I not know what I wanna do with my life, I have no idea how the people who I looked up to, how they did it, you know, how did Bill Gates tell his first piece of software of his dorm room when nobody knew his name?

How did Spielberg become the youngest director in Hollywood history without a single hit under his belt? You know, this is where they don’t teach you in school. So I just assumed there had to be a book with the answers. So I’m going through library and just ripping through, you know, business books and biographies and self-help books.

Assuming there had to be a book, not on a particular age life, but really a stage when you have a big goal, you have a big dream, but no one’s taking your calls, no one’s taking your meetings. How do you find a way to break through and eventually. I was left empty handed. So that’s when my naive 18 year old thinking kicked in.

I thought, well, if no one’s written the book, I’m dreaming of breeding, why not write it myself? And I thought I’d just call Bill Gates, interview him, interview everybody else. I’ll be done in a few months. That I assumed would be the easy part. The hard part I fear, was getting the money to fund this journey.

You know, I was Barr in student loan debt. I was all out of bar Miz for cash. So there had to be a way to make some quick money. So two nights before final exams, I’m in the library doing what everyone does in the library right before finals. You know, I’m on Facebook and I’m on Facebook and I see somebody offering free tickets to the prices.

Right. And I’m sure you know the show. You know, growing up, you know, biggest games show American History and I see somebody offering free tickets to the show, and the show is filming the next morning. I’m in college in Los Angeles, not too far from where the show films, and my first thought was, what if I go on this show and win some money to fund this book?

You know, not my brightest moment. Plus, I had a problem. I never seen a full episode of the show before. You know, I, of course I’ve seen bits and pieces of it growing up from, you know, when you’re homesick from school in fourth grade, it’s the only thing on TV at the time. Uh, but I’d never seen a full episode, so I told myself it’s a dumb idea and to not think about it.

But I dunno if you’ve ever had one of those moments where, you know, no matter how ridiculous an idea, for some reason, it keeps pulling itself back into your mind. Uh, it’s almost to prove to myself it’s a bad idea. I remember I was sitting at this round wooden table in the corner of the library and I take out my spiral notebook and I write best and worst case scenario to prove to myself, this is a bad.

I remember writing, you know, worst case scenarios, fail finals, get kicked outta pre-med, lose financial aid. Mom stops talking to me, no, mom kills me. You know, there’s about 20 cons and the only pro was maybe, maybe went in a funny to fund this dream and it’s almost as if somebody that’s had a rope around my gut and was slowly pulling in a direction.

So that night I decided to do the law school thing and pull an all nighter to study, but I didn’t study for finals. I said I had to hack the prices, right? And I went on the show the next day and did this ridiculous strategy and ended up, you know, uh, winning the entire showcase, show down, winning a sailboat, selling that sailboat.

And that’s how I funded the book . And that’s how the journey really set off. And what was, 

Mike: what was the hack? I mean, people, they’re gonna want to know. So 

Alex: the, you know, unless it’s true in depth, I’m just curious if there’s a no. I can give you, I can give you the 32nd version. The full prices right story is this like preposterous 30 minute story, but the 32nd of it is when you watch any game show, but particularly the prices, right?

There’s, you know, 300 people in the audience of the prices, right? Out of those 300 in the audience, eight of them get called down to play the games, and out of those eight one wins. So if you just run the numbers right there, let’s assume it’s blind luck. It’s not, but let’s assume it is. The odds of being eight out of 300 are way harder than the odds of one out of eight.

So I just had one night to prepare, so I said, all right, let me just focus all of my energy on the hard part, which is guaranteeing, you’re called out of the three. So that’s where I put all my research. And what I learned is that while the show makes it look random, they make it go like, you know, Mike, come on down as if they pulled your name out of a hat.

There’s a casting producer who interviews everyone in the audience. And then what I discovered at like 3:00 AM on a message board is that there’s an undercover producer planted amongst the audience who’s also studying the group. So once you know that, that the three hours before the show begins when you’re just waiting, is actually essentially like a job interview.

Yep. And it’s not a ten second interview, it’s a three hour interview. Cause they’re, you’re on stage. Exactly. And once you know that, what most people do is they figure out that they have a ten second interview, but the rest, they’re just scrolling on Instagram on their phone. They don’t realize it’s a three hour interview.

And once you know that you’re golden, 

Mike: Uh, so, alright, so you fund, now you have the money to, to do this book. And, and that’s, that’s a, that’s a fun way to get to, to, to the beginning and now. Alright, well I just call it Bill Gates and, uh, ask him some questions. 

Alex: No surprise. Uh, he doesn’t take calls from 18 

Mike: years.

You can’t just, you can’t just look up his, uh, cell phone number on, uh, an online 

Alex: data. I basically can’t just pay $30. No. Surprisingly, uh, [email protected] doesn’t lead to 

Mike: much . And, and so then how did you get a lot of these interviews? Before we get into the con content interviews, I’m just curious because, uh, 

Alex: it, every single one was its own adventure.

So for Bill Gates, it took two years to track him down For Lady Gaga, it took three years for Larry King guy chasing through a grocery store for, uh, Steven Spielberg almost died on a boat in the south of France trying to get to him with Warren Buffet. I spent eight months, uh, writing him letters and then I ended up hacking his shareholders meeting in front of 30,000 people with Tim Ferris.

I hid in a bathroom at a conference, like it was every single one was its own wild adventure. And what the book accidentally ended up being, cuz it wasn’t the original intention, but what the book turned out to become was this series of wild goose chases that led into the interviews and then the interviews, um, had the content and the, and the wisdom.

Uh, but the original intention was cuz I was naive even enough to think all these people would say yes right away. I thought it would solely be just the wisdom from these people and the insights and the lessons. Um, but the books turned out to be both this wild sort of catch me if you can, heist movie

That led into each different interview. 

Mike: And, and there’s something probably to be learned simply from, from that, that, uh, I mean it’s, it’s, it makes me think of, of the title, right? Trying to find the, the third door into each of these interviews. And, uh, it’s a very, it sounds like it’s very much a whatever it takes creative thinking, uh, outside of the box thinking, going into it with the assumption there is some way that I can get to an interview.

I, I don’t know what it is yet. And it might take years and it might, it might require, uh, ridiculous stunts. But there is a way. There is a way. Am I, am I willing to try to figure it out and do it is the only question. 

Alex: That’s exactly, and you know, when I had started this journey in the beginning, at the very beginning when I had started, there was no part of me looking for that one key to success.

You know, we’ve all seen those business folks with those TED talks that normally I just roll my eyes. But what ended up happening over seven years of interviews, And I started realizing every single one of these people treated life in business and success the exact same way. You know, I don’t care if it’s Warren Buffet in Omaha, Nebraska, if it’s, you know, pit bull in Miami.

Every single one of them treated life in business the exact same way. And the analogy that came to me is that it’s sort of like getting into a nightclub. There’s always three ways in. So there’s the first store, the main entrance where the line curves are on the block, where 99% of people wait around hoping to get in.

You know, you’ve seen that line. People standing out on the cold hoping the bouncer lets them in, right? That’s the first store. And then there’s the second door, the VIP entrance where the billionaires and celebrities go through. For some reason, society has this way of making us feel like those are the only two ways in.

You either wait your turn or you’re born into it. But what I learned and what I’m sure you’ve seen in your own career is that there’s always. The third door and it’s entrance where you jump out of line, run down the alley, bang on the door a hundred times, crack open the window, go through the kitchen.

There’s always a way in, and it doesn’t matter if that’s how Bill Gates, all this first piece, the software el got outta her first record deal. They all took 

Mike: the third door. And that’s a good segue into the next question I wanna ask you, which is, what are some of the commonalities that you found among a lot of these people?

You just mentioned that they view life and success and uh, in, in many, in many of the same ways. What are some of those same ways? Uh, just, just playing off of what you just mentioned, you know, definitely 

Alex: the third door is this broad framework and mindset. Uh, but within that, there’s definitely other things too.

And I’ll tell you one of the more surprising ones that I didn’t expect. Um, cuz we all know there’s, you know, obvious things that they all have to happen. But what’s interesting to me is the things you don’t expect. Uh, yeah. One thing about me personally, if you ask my sisters what was like growing up with me, they would tell you I was the most scared kid you would ever meet.

You know, nightlight on until I was 12, never went on rollercoaster, just terrified. Uh, so naturally when I started this quest, you know, I was terrified the whole way through every single step of the way. So a natural thing that I was curious about is how did all these people who I looked up to, how did they become so fearless?

And you look at Aon Musk, you look at Bill Gates, they had to be fearless or else how else they have done what they did. And what ended up happening every single time and every single interview. Cause they started realizing not only were all of these people scared in the beginning too, they were terrified the whole way.

And that didn’t make any sense to me at all. And what ended up having to learn is that it wasn’t fearlessness. They achieved. It was courage. And while the words sound very similar, the difference is critical. So fearlessness is jumping off a cliff without thinking about it. You know, that’s an idiot. You do not wanna be friend with friends with that guy.

right? That guy will lead you to a lot of bad situations. That’s fearlessness. Courage, on the other hand, is acknowledging your fear, analyzing the consequences, and then deciding you’ll still take one step forward anyways, cuz you care so much about it. And again, while those words sound so, so similar, the differences are night and day.

And it’s the difference between someone who jumps off a cliff and you never hear about and ends up versus someone who ends up starting SpaceX and. 

Mike: You have that, that reckless type of fearless, and then you also have some people who maybe don’t experience as much in the way of fear, but again, that, uh, is, is, is different than what you’re talking about in some cases.

Super, super different. They, they, and in some cases I can think of some examples of people who I think should have experienced some fear before they made certain decisions that did not go well. Like it, it was . Their fearlessness was inappropriate. It wasn’t the right emotion. 

Alex: Uh, you see that in finance a lot, right?

Yeah. Yeah. You see these stores all the time. Someone just, you know, their whole hedge fund just went under and you’re like, damn, weren’t they a little afraid before they, uh, shorted, you know, AMC with their entire portfolio? 

Mike: And I mean, I know a guy who, who did, did, I mean, he. He lost 700 million in a day.

In a day. And he was, uh, so confident that before he made the decision that that led to that, that he just had his, his finger on the pulse. He knew the market. And I mean, how he would tell the story is there, were, there, there was fearlessness. It was, you know, cuz he had been riding high the previous year.

He had, he had done a hundred percent in his fund. Everyone was talking about him. He was, at this point surrounded by a lot of sick offenses. And, and then in one day he melted his fund down, essentially. 

Alex: Yeah. Life has a way of, uh, putting you in check whether you like it. 

Mike: I mean, it’s the, whether you look to the story of, of IOUs right?

Flying too, too close to the sun or, or just, what’s that old saying? Uh, it’s essentially to, to, it’s, it’s a little bit more poetic, but it’s like, who the gods wanna strike down they first fill with pride or something like that. 

Alex: Sure. And you know, one of lessons I had to learn the hard way is life will keep hitting you over the head with the same lesson until you listen.

It will keep hitting you over the head with the same lesson until you listen. Sometimes it takes losing 700 million for you to listen. Uh, and sometimes it’s, you know, you lose 10 bucks and you learn your lesson. 

Mike: Uh, ironically that same guy, so his fund is, is, is gone within probably six months. The remaining funds were, were withdrawn, obviously that was the end of that, but he had still made, I wanna say he probably had made about 70 million that he had Right.

And invested in various ways over the, over his time running that fund. And, um, he then proceeded to lose most of that, his own, that was just his personal doing, doing a lot of bad real estate deals. And so to, to, to your point, that lesson he did not learn. 

Alex: Yeah. Uh, a very, very, very, very successful person once told me something that stuck with me, which is, you only have to get rich once.

And essentially what they’re saying is once you haven’t, once you have, you know more than you need, change your risk caliber a bit. . Yep. There’s a lot of stories of, and again, I can’t relate to these, I’m not there personally, but I study this topic and there’s a lot of stories of people who lose their entire fortune when they get $900 million.

Yep. Because of a psychological defect they have, which is, they think they will be more whole, more loved, more worthy, more special when the 900 million turns into a billion. They take, they’re so desperate to, to, to the idea of what they think it will feel like and be like that they risk the whole house.

And there goes, there goes everything. Um, now I can’t relate to that and frankly, I have zero pity on them. I mean, my heart is not, it’s sympathize. These are, these are not, these are not soft stories, uh, that I care about. But the psychology of it is interesting too, because I know we all can relate to.

Having things inside of us that, you know, there’s an old ancient saying, which is one of the worst things in life, is to have a hole in your pocket where no matter how many corns you put in your pocket still remains empty. Yep. And that hole is an analogy for actually our, you know, our, our souls. Right.

You can, you can feel full, right? You can be surrounded by a hundred friends at a birthday party and feel, and feel completely lonely. Right? You can achieve, you can have millions of people listen to your podcast and still feel like you’re not making impact. Like, right. These are, these are curses. Um, and sadly, they’re all around us.

So a lot of my studying of success has to do with not just how do you accomplish a goal, but how do you feel that you accomplish the goal? Those are almost two completely separate. . 

Mike: And how has that played out for you? I mean, it’s obviously relevant to your personal story. So you were in med school and uh, feeling like this is not for you, , and you, and you chose, uh, to do something very theatrical and dramatic

And, and now, and now here, here you are. Uh, what, what about what, what you have done and are doing, are there, are there parts of it? And you know, cuz I, I’ve spoken about this myself. I’m sure you’ve experienced the declining utility of, of money, for example. And no, I’m not rich and I’m not implying that I am.

Um, but that’s, that’s a common experience. But, uh, from where you were to where you are now, what have you found is actually fulfilling? Well what, what draws you as, as opposed to the things you have to push yourself into? And are there any things that you thought were gonna be very fulfilling that were not?

Alex: Oh yeah. Okay, I’ll tell you a, a crazy moment. Again, no one will sympathize for me in this and that this is not the point of it, but I will say it was a great moment. It almost felt like a moment from God to just nail the lesson in for me. So, you know, I work on the third door for seven years. The book comes out in the United States, and I am just blood, sweat, and tears level of hustle to try to get this, you know, essentially I’m a guy in my twenties with no platform, no name trying to get this book, you know, onto a bestseller list.

It normally doesn’t work that way. Uh, and thankfully it didn’t, you know, end up becoming a national best seller. Um, but it was just, you know, you know, I’m at a threat on the book launch day. I’m not sitting back and pumping my fists. Right. Um, now flip side is a year later, the book starts coming out internationally and.

I land in Japan and I’ve done, I haven’t lifted a finger yet. I land in Japan. The next day is when I’m supposed to start working, doing press and things like that. I land in Japan on the day the book actually comes out and I see on Twitter, the book, the Third Door in Japan is the number one book in Japan.

And this is how skewed my brain is because of how hard I worked in America. And it barely, barely cracked the best bar. And I literally mean, I’m being honest. It barely cracked, you know? Uh, I’m grateful it did, but it barely cracked in Japan. It’s number one. So I’m thinking like, okay, you know, you know how Amazon works.

It’s probably like number one in some random subcategory I’ve never heard of. Yeah. You know, underwater basket weaving for entrepreneurs. Yeah. Like, oh, it’s number one in that category. Great. And I go onto Amazon. All over the Amazon page of the book. It has the number one on it. And I’m like literally taking screenshots, sending it to people who I know, know Japanese saying Google Translate claims.

This is like, is this. And apparently the book debuted as the number one book in the whole country now. It felt crazy. It felt really, really, really good. Uh, you know, I’m FaceTiming friends, it’s feeling really good. About an hour later, I’m in the hotel room. This is all on that first night. So it was just amazing.

It happened in the same moment. I get a random cold email from this like 19 year old kid. Um, and the email pretty much said like, you know, dear Alex, um, so it for the cold email, I just recorded this like one minute video to say thanks. And I was like, alone in a hotel room. So it was like, sort of just random timing.

So I just like click on the video. Um, and as this 19 year old kid telling me about how he got his dream job, um, because he read the third Door and that was the first business book he’d ever read. And that the book had changed his life. And I’m like crying, um, because that kid was me. Like that kid was, the kid was the me who started the book.

Um, and I started like tearing up and I started crying. And I remember in that moment being like just having this moment of clarity being like, wow, there were no tears of joy with the number one. By the way, I’m not saying the number one didn’t feel good. I’m not saying like, oh, I felt empty. No, I felt great, but the level of fulfillment, uh, it felt great in a different way.

Yeah. And I remember in that moment trying to almost like yell at myself saying, remember this cuz it’s this second moment that made you feel like you were on your destiny. 

Mike: That’s a much better. Why? Why do this? Why continue that? That email and I can relate to that means more than, oh, why? Maybe I can hit another list or I can sell another abstract 

Alex: number of books.

Oh, okay. You know, you open Instagram and you know, I I I I’m was just as susceptible as everyone else. I see a guy on a private, I’m like, man, that looks great, . You know, I see someone with, you know, the, the bottles and the this and, and man that looks really fun. Um, you know, and again, right now with crypto, it’s a whole nother realm of fomo.

I was, I was gonna mention that like, 

Mike: now the price is right. That the story, you would’ve just gambled it on some 


Alex: coin and that would’ve Oh, look at that. I thousand indexed my, that’s actually, I’ve never heard of that. And that is the funniest thing, the 2021 version of the prices Right. Is fucking do coin.

Yeah, exactly. 

Mike: And that you didn’t actually fund a book project. You funded your retirement. Oops. . 

Alex: Right. I I still, it’s actually still a struggle that I’m, I’m, I, I work on, which is, it’s, there are lots of more shiny objects now than there were 10 years ago, 20 years ago, a hundred years ago, a thousand years ago.

Uh, and a lot more messages by society and a lot more 

Mike: sophisticated messaging. The art of the art of propaganda has 

Alex: come so far. So far. Yes, yes, yes, yes. This is actually something that I forget about the messaging. Not only is more, it’s more effective. I have, and again, I study success, so I just, this is my job.

I get. You will actually, you, you, you, because I know you live in this world too. You will believe this. The number of people who I was once doing a speech once for a or organization called ypm, um, everyone in that organization as an I’m sure you know, has to have, you know, a organization and the tens of millions.

Mike: I was, I was a member actually of Y P D and then I didn’t feel like I was getting much out of it, honestly. So I just stopped. 

Alex: But yeah, so I’m at this YPO event though, so you know, the caliber people in there. All running, you know, very, very successful organizations. This one guy comes up to me after a Y P O event.

Um, I, you know, I give the speech and he’s just like, sort of creeping, you know, you know, just like, sort of like looking at me from across the room, standing in the corner. Um, and for an event like y p you would expect someone to just come up and shake your hand and, you know, say what’s ever on their line.

But this guy’s sort of like creeping and to the point where like, I just looked at him, like waved him over, like, what’s, what’s going on, man? Uh, and he’s like, can I talk to you in private? I’m like, uh, okay. So, you know, when the event’s done, I’m done with the book signing. I’m, you know, I go outside, I’m like, what’s, what’s going on?

He essentially explains to me that he just sold his company for Yeah, hundreds of millions. And I think the payout to him was maybe, you know, 50 million, 60, 70, something like that. And he essentially tells me that this was the moment he dreamed of his whole life. Yet when it happened, uh, he felt empty and miserable.

And again, this is not a soft story. This is not a boohoo, but it is an insight for those of us who are on the hustle, who are on our grind, who are, are chasing the goals to realize that what this man was looking for was, he thought he was looking for the 50 million, but he wasn’t, cuz clearly he was given it and it didn’t give him what he wanted, which then informs us who are on our hustle to reevaluate what we’re actually aiming for.

And a big realization I’ve had is that most people who are looking for success, um, mansions, cars, private jets, they think they want that cuz they’ve been sold that by Forbes Magazine, by fucking Instagram influencers. When in reality what they’re actually looking for is, first of all, I’m not discounting money.

Yeah, you do wanna feel safe and supported and comfortable and know that you can secure of yourself and your lover, not your bills. Yeah. Now this is another thing though. You said not worried about bills. I know people with tens of millions who are worried about bills 

Mike: Depends, I guess, how extravagant your lifestyle is, 

Alex: right?

I know, right? So, so it actually draws into qu I know people with hundreds of millions who are still afraid of getting broke and they still don’t have the security they were hoping for. So what you actually are looking for isn’t what you think you want. And it is that it is a mind fuck of grand proportions.

Um, will Smith talks out it has hundreds of million that he still wakes up afraid of being broke. Man, my heart goes out. Yeah, that actually does make me sad. Um, and I, again, what I’ve had to learn is that the. Accomplishment and the thing you’re actually searching for are not always the same. You think you want the mansion, but what you actually want is the, the community and the respect and the sense of the belonging.

You think the Mansion will give you. 

Mike: I mean, that’s a, a, a perennial theme in, in, in storytelling that it goes back to the beginning of time, right. Is the, the person who gets what they want and finds out that, uh, they should have wanted something else . 

Alex: Yeah. You know, there’s a great line from Jim Carey.

This is, I Hope Ever gets Rich in, uh, rich and famous so they can realize they didn’t want to be rich and famous. Yeah. Uh, what they wanted was a sense of significance, a sense of impact, a sense of, again, security and comfort financially. Of course. But 

Mike: what is that? What is that for you? Cause it sounds like you’ve thought about this, you have to have thought about it.

Alex: I think about it a lot. I think about it for myself, and I study other people too. Um, for myself, a huge thing. Um, I was talking about this a lot with friends the past couple weeks too, which is for me, first of all, again, I, I’m not one of those people who’s like, money doesn’t matter. Follow your purpose.

Money fucking matters. You know, there are people in America who cannot afford the insulin for their diabetes. Uh, many Americans can’t gather $500 in case of an emergency. Yeah. Um, so I’m not, I’m not gonna be out here like preaching money doesn’t matter. Just enjoy your life or follow your bliss or any, that’s it.

No money matters. What I will say is the people listen to your podcast. They wouldn’t be listening if they weren’t and they wouldn’t have made it, you know, 30 minutes into this, they wouldn’t still be listening. Yeah, they wouldn’t still be listening if they weren’t motivated, hungry, ambitious, and smart.

So to people like that, what I’ll say is be very thoughtful about the, you know, the metrics you use to measure your own success. Because what’s really easy is to say, okay, when I make, I dunno pulling numbers outta the air when I make a hundred thousand, then I’ll be happy. As soon as you get the hundred thousand, what happens is all your friends that you now are surrounding yourself with, I’ll make 500,000.

So you feel poor . So the numbers okay. 500 K. When I get same, I’m not ca I then, and by the way, time passes. So all of a sudden that was when you were a kid. Now you’re doing 500 K and all your friends because you met these cool people at YPO are all 10. And have double houses and you go, man, that guy looks like he’s really living up right?

So you gotta be super careful and thoughtful cuz at the end of the day, you are in charge of your own end zone. You’re in charge of your own finish line. You’re in charge of your own definition of success. Did 

Mike: you know that right now I am in the middle of a big book Launch Bonanza for my new fitness book for men and women of all ages and Abilities, muscle for Life, which is releasing on January 11th and is currently available for pre-order over at Muscle for Life

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A hyper volt go. That’s 200 bucks an Instant Pot duo, crisp Air Fryer, another 200 bucks, a Vitamix, E three 10 blender, 350 bucks, a 30 minute zoom call with yours unruly. And that is priceless, of course, and much, much more. Now, there are several ways to enter to win too. You can buy books, you can spread the word, you can follow me on social media and more.

So again, to get all of the giveaway sauce, go over to Muscle for Life, muscle o r life Just to point to, point that up. I have, uh, a buddy who is, is rich. He’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars. He has billionaire friends and one of his billionaire friends, uh, is, is worth, I don’t know, one or 2 billion.

And, and he jokes, I don’t know this person, but via my friend, my friend was telling me this guy jokes, but he’s kind of not joking at the same time that yeah, he’s a billionaire, but, but he’s a poor billionaire because his billionaire friends, they have 500 million boats and they have multiple planes. And, and the guy, he, uh, it’s fucked up.

He’s joking, but he’s not joking. He’s actually, yeah, partly serious that he feels like he’s one of the poor guys in his, in his, uh, social circle because he, he can’t buy a 500 million boat. 

Alex: Yeah. Okay. So Oprah, let’s say has one, 2 billion, or I’m just throwing these numbers at there. 2 billion, 3, 4, 5. I know.

Who knows? One, I don’t, I don’t know. But let’s say it’s in that, Do you know who she goes on vacation with people who have 50 billion and who 

Mike: live like they have 50 billion . 

Alex: So again, and, and that, but let’s bring that back down to reality too, right? Which is like if you’re making 30 K and your homies making 70 K, like that is a tangible difference.

Yes. Um, and again, the only reason we’re even talking about this is because of the point, which is the first seven years of third door journey was about how do you achieve a goal at any cost. That’s what the book is about. And how do you get there in a creative way that doesn’t make any sense enough when you’re doing it, but in hindsight is feels, yeah, spot.

Mike: There should be a word for this characteristic. I’m trying to think. I don’t, I don’t know if there is a, you know, 

Alex: people will, The reason I like the third door is it sort of encapsulates a lot of things that have already been out in the world in a single thought, right. In a visual phrase. You know, you can, if you wanted to, you know, define the third door in the dictionary, I’m sure synonyms in the, the sores would be, you know, grit, creativity and genuity resourcefulness, but resourcefulness, pluckiness, um, stay at it with this, you know.

Yeah. Stick to itness, you know, stick to itness, perseverance. All these like World War II phrases, a lot of 

Mike: are so, are so hack need though. You just go, yeah. Oh yeah. Think I heard that Ted talk. Right, 

Alex: right. But the truth is, the difference between the third door and just like sticktuitiveness is like, bro, you can be stick toit within the first line and just be grinding, grinding at a job you hate your whole life.

And that’s not the third door. The whole point of the third door is that if you wanna do something new, if you want to start a new job, Start new industry, start a new company, um, start a new relationship. It requires you to do things you’ve never done before, which is then gonna bring fears you never felt before.

It’s gonna give you scrapes and, you know, scabs on your knee, it’s gonna cover you in mud. But that’s the way, I don’t know, a single, after 10 years of studying success, I’ve never seen a single person achieve their goals without a, you know, scrapes and scratches and bruises. It’s just the way it works. And if you don’t want those scrapes and scraps and bruises, by all means I love you.

It’s all good. Like keep at it and keep doing and keep falling inertia. And by the way, you’re just as worthy as a human being. And, and I mean that without sar, I really do mean that. The third door is for people who want to reach for something new and want that growth. That’s who the third door is for.

Mike: And, um, A a as far as, um, some of, some of these other commonalities that, that you found among the successful people. Uh, I’m sure there was something related to dealing with setbacks and so Oh yeah. And then, then you yourself, I’m sure you exhibited some of those qualities and it might have been interesting for you to be like, oh yeah, that, that, that resonates with me because that’s what, that’s how I responded to, and I’m sure you experienced a lot of setbacks going through that seven year journey.

Uh, how did you deal with, with them and how did that compare to what you learned in these interviews? 

Alex: So, I’ll tell you the interview they taught me the most about that topic, and this interview completely changed my understanding of the relationship between success and failure. This interview took place at the end of the journey and the third door, and it was the interview with Quincy Jones.

Now, I knew what a lot of people know about Quincy Jones going into this. I knew that he has more Grammy Awards than any music producer in history. He produced the best selling album of all time, Michael Jackson, thriller. He produced the best selling single of all Time Wear the World. He’s worked with Frank Sinatra, Ray Charles in the world of television.

He created a fresh prince of that layer in the world of film. He produced the Color Purple with Steven Spielberg. He discovered Oprah Winfrey and Will Smith. He’s undeniably one of the most successful people. I mean, he’s just, 

Mike: he’s just another species. I mean, that’s, that’s how, that’s what you would say.


Alex: exactly. He’s undeniably one of the most successful people in entertainment history. But the second I walked into his house, I realized, I don’t know half of it. Now some context to this story. Right before this interview with Quincy Jones, I had a disastrous situation with Mark Zuckerberg, and it’s a story for another time, but pretty much what you need to know is I ended up getting introduced to Zuckerberg over email.

I was, you know, freaking out. I had a meeting set with them, but because I dropped the ball logistically when I showed up the event security thought I was an imposter, the building security wouldn’t let me in and I ended up missing the meeting. And it was one of those situations where it feels like you fumbled the ball during the Super Bowl.

Yeah. And, 

Mike: and then, and then the other team grabbed it, ran it back, and then you lost the Super Bowl is probably how 

Alex: exactly. Yes, exactly. Exactly. You like your, it was you. It was you. Yeah. And you wake up every morning. It doesn’t matter how much you tell yourself. I didn’t even get punched out. You just fumbled.

Mike: The, the quarterback gave it to you 

Alex: and you just threw a perfect, threw a perfect hill Mary for you to win the game. . And you caught it and then fumbled it. Yeah. Yeah. You didn’t even miss the catch. You got the cats and then you fumbled it. True. That’s how I fumbled. Because you tripped over yourself.

Exactly. There was no def, no defenders around you, . Um, you, you tripped over yourself and that’s how it felt. So I essentially was beating myself up every single day, um, to the point where my insides were black and blue. And that’s how I felt as I walked into Quincy Jones’ house. So he started off to picture his living room.

It’s this perfectly circular room with gold lighting coming from the floors, and right in the middle is a couch. So sitting down on the couch and in walks in Quincy Jones. He’s about 80 years old at the time. So, you know, he walks in very tenderly and he is wearing this long blue velvet robe with gold stitching on the bottom.

And he sits down next to me and he asks me where I’m from. And I go, Hey, you know, I’m, I’m from Los Angeles. And he goes, no. I said, where are you from? And I’m, you know, looking around wondering if this is like a trick question. And finally I realize what he’s saying and I go, oh, oh, my family’s from Iran.

And he goes, that’s what I thought. And he launches into a 30 minute story about dating a Persian princess, trying to break the IOL out of prison. And he sucks me into the Quincy Jones vortex. And it is the happiest place on earth Now. The guy has a story for everything. He’s been everywhere. He has meant everybody.

Uh, somehow he has the craziest stories you’ve ever heard. And about halfway through this interview, he tells me a story that complete, as I mentioned, completely changes my understanding of the relationship between success and failure. So Quincy begins to tell me that early on in his career when he was just starting out music, the whole music industry was run by the mafia.

The whole music industry was run by the mafia. So, you know, one day Quincy had to go in and get a music publishing deal from a music executive. So he goes into this executive’s office, sits down, the executive sitting behind the desk, slides a contractor across the table, Quincy reads it, and it says that Quincy will only get 1% of his own publishing.

He only get 1% of his own publishing. And Quincy’s about to say something, but he looks up and sees that behind the executive are all his cronies. And the executive leans forward and says, look, you can ask for whatever you want, but you’re only getting 1%. And you know, I’m sitting there on that couch hearing the story.

I’m cringing, but I look at Quincy, he’s laughing. He’s like, oh man. Stole all my stuff and I’m like cringing even more. And he’s smiling now. He’s like, ah, I’m still trying to get that stuff back, . And I’m just, I just uncontrollably burst out saying, that’s messed up. And he looks at me, you know, confused why I would have outbursts like that.

And only in hindsight can I see that I was still so beat up internally from that experience in Zuckerberg that any story of someone young making a mistake and taking advantage of was completely sending me off. And it’s almost as if Quincy understood something about me that I didn’t, he put a hand on my shoulder and he said, it’s all right, man.

It’s how you learn. And it’s almost if my body was this overinflated tire, and Quincy had just hit this escape valve and all the excess pressure was rushing out. And they looked at me and said, listen, 99% of people hate their mistakes. They don’t wanna talk about their mistakes. They wanna pretend their mistakes don’t never happen.

They treat their mistakes as their biggest enemy. And that’s the biggest mistake you can make. Cause it’s only when you treat your mistakes as your best friends. It’s only when you cherish your mistakes can you learn from them. Only then can you grow your mistakes or your greatest gift. So, you know, of course that was good advice.

But before I know it, you know, Quincy Jones Vortex keeps on going. And at a certain point, you know, you start feeling conversation, come to a close, and I look at my watch and it’d been about three hours at this point, so I thought that would be a good time to just, you know, wind down. And I look at it and I say, you know, Mr.

Jones, I have to let you know this conversation has changed my life. And he goes, that’s amazing. You know how so? And I said, well, you really showed me what it takes to, you know, grow and be, you know, a person of the world. And he said, that’s beautiful, you know, in what way? And I said, well, you showed me that.

The only way you can grow is by traveling and going on adventures. And he goes, no , very millennial. No, I knew it. I knew the wanderlust 

Mike: was the key. I knew, I know. I knew that eating the food and looking at the rocks, that’s the key. 

Alex: He goes, no, you need to cherish your mistakes. And it’s almost as if he wasn’t gonna let me leave that room until that lesson sunk in.

And in that moment it did. I remember sitting there on that couch and having this epiphany that I’d spent my entire life assuming that the opposite of success is failure. You know, what are the teacher kindergarten? The opposite of up is down. The opposite of success is failure. But it wasn’t until I was sitting with Quincy Jones that I realized that success and failure are only not opposites.

They’re just different sides of the same coin. They’re both a result of the same thing. They’re both a result. Trying. So that means that the opposite of success isn’t failure. The opposite of success is not trying. Remember sitting there on, on that couch and having this epiphany and, and swearing to myself that from this point forward, I would be unattached to success and unattached of failing, and instead be committed to trying and growing.

And that’s the biggest lesson I could have learned. 

Mike: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great point and a great, a great lesson to learn. One follow up question on that is, what are your thoughts as to, and this is something I’ve, I’ve put thought into because I I agree fundamentally with, with what you just said and with the message that you just shared.

What are your thoughts though on the types of mistakes that, and this is, this is a personal thing, people re respond to this differently. Uh, I don’t know if there’s a universal answer, but what types of mistakes are you. . Okay. Chances are you would, you would like to make no mistakes. We all would like to make no mistakes.

Sure. Sign me up. Life would be easier. Sure. We’ll take it. Right. It might be a little bit, uh, less interesting because mistakes give us fine. 

Alex: I’m fine. Exactly. Give the straight success. Thank you. Yeah. Maybe one day if I just get bored of that, I’ll, I’ll 

Mike: go back to the other thing. Uh, uh, however, however, what types of mistakes do you feel are, may, maybe you could say, acceptable to you personally to make, or what types of mistakes tend to be more productive?

And, and just to give you an example so you understand, uh, what I’m getting at is in my own work, a mistake that. I really try not to make is I don’t want to fail at something. Doesn’t mean I’m gonna give up, but I don’t want to experience failure because I didn’t work as hard as I feel like I should have.

Right? Mm-hmm. , that that’s, that’s, that’s an example of, that’s a 

Alex: painful regret to know that you had more in you, that if it, and then it, it, it eats at you of I wonder what would’ve happened if I tried harder. 

Mike: Right. And, and for whatever reason, I don’t tend to be, my mind just doesn’t tend to be wired that way.

But, uh, yes. I mean, that, that is 100% true. And, and I just don’t think it’s an appropriate way to fail. I just don’t think it’s appropriate to fail for lack of effort. Right. And, and so in, in my own business adventures, I’ve been perfectly okay with failing at things. When I look. What I did, I, did I work, did I put in an appropriate amount of effort?

Yes. Did I put in an appropriate amount of thought in terms of how to direct that effort? Did I come up with what I thought was a, a good plan that at least had fair chances of success? Yes. You know what I mean? So those types of mistakes. I also find those to be more productive and I can learn more from them because they’re not as maybe silly as, oh, well I just didn’t really work at it, so no wonder it didn’t work out.

You know what I mean? Does that make any 

Alex: sense to you? Yeah. I think, you know, when it comes to, there’s different kinds of mistakes, right? And there’s different flavors. Um, you know, I’ll even go first to say there’s even, you know, mistakes of integrity are a lot more painful than, you know, the worst thing is not just to fail, it’s to fail and know you did it in a fucked up way.


Mike: that, yeah, this wasn’t true to you. Or just unethical . Like, you just, you just compromised your own what you felt is right, right. 

Alex: Yeah. And then there’s other kinds of mistakes too. You know, there’s mistakes of, like you just said right now, there’s mistakes that aren’t true to yourself. You know, I know a lot of people who, you know, have dreams in life, but they wanna, you know, play it safe and do the safe thing.

Like at a job, at a, let’s say an accounting firm and then an, you know, a bad economy comes in, the firm lays everyone off and there goes their safe job. So now they’re out of both the safe job and their dream. So I think there’s different kinds of mistakes. I think there’s mistakes that are valuable. You know, mistakes like, Dude, I made a tons of mistakes.

Like the Zuckerberg mistake was a huge mistake. The Warren Buffet, she made a huge mistake taking a boat out to the south of France to try to track down Steven Spielberg’s yacht. Huge mistake. . That one 

Mike: sounds deadly. Actually. , 

Alex: cause I’m sure security. I wouldn’t be surprised. Do you know, that’s actually, that’s the end of the story.

The security had some guns, bro. 

Mike: Oh, they did? Yeah. 

Alex: That’s, that’s, that’s a story for another time. But those are the mistakes that yes, they burn. At the time, I, I don’t, did not enjoy making them. They were just as painful. But in hindsight, they’re almost, uh, they make you feel good. Cause you fucking know. You at least try for what you cared about.

Yep. Um, and the same is true in, you know, in love and romance. You’re gonna make mistakes either way. But are you making mistakes chasing after a partner that makes you look good to others? And you’ll probably make mistakes there too, or are you going after the person that really makes your heart feel warm?

Um, even if it doesn’t give you the external validation that you, that you crave. 

Mike: Um, the likes, dude, the Instagram likes, 

Alex: right? The insert dude, we live in a, our, I think about this a lot, particularly the past two or three years. There are things going on because this is the thing about setting success.

Most things when you study success actually are true just as much now as they were a hundred years ago. You know, persistence, just as important now as it was a hundred years ago. You know, all these things, you know, just as true. But there are some things that are happening now that have never happened in human.

There are some phenomenon that are happening now that have never happened in human history and that I’m becoming a bit obsessed with studying, which is there are some, you know, effects that are happening to our generation in particular when it comes to achieving their goals and achieving the life’s, uh, a life of serenity and happiness and fulfillment.

There are new variables that have entered the game, 

Mike: it sounds like. Is this, is this gonna be another book? Is this the beginning of a book project? Well, well, 

Alex: uh, we’ll see. We’ll see. I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t know what, but I do know though, I just talk about it. Every fucking dinner I go to right now and everyone nods their head, which is social media, has changed in the past five years from being a way you, you know, connect and share and learn things to being full out addictions.

Um, it’s much more similar to the effects of alcohol than it is to the effects of like, Being burnt out at work. You know, the way people treat TikTok and Instagram scrolling is much more similar to the way an alcoholic treats a alcohol at the bar, which is, you know, it’s not good for you. An alcoholic isn’t dumb.

They know they like end up passed out on the floor, but they can’t stop. You know that when you are scrolling Instagram and you are someone with body image issues, you probably are gonna feel worse about yourself at the end of that one hour scroll. But why do we keep doing it? 

Mike: I mean, it, uh, it’s partly because.

Many, many brilliant people have, uh, spent a lot of their time figuring out how to get us to want to do it, which is something I’m sure you’ve also thought about. I mean, think of how much brain power has been. Yeah. I, I would say wasted on figuring out how to get us to click and scroll and return day after day.

I mean, day after day, hour after hour, uh, for more of something that is bad for us Yeah. 

Alex: Is just bad. Yeah. And, and they know, they know it’s bad for us. We know it’s bad for us. Yep. Just like fucking, the beer companies know it’s bad for us. The, the jewel companies, the e-cigarette companies, they know it’s bad for us and the consumers.

No one’s, no one’s dumb. You know, maybe it’s a bit more obvious that cigarettes cause lung cancer than it is that Instagram and TikTok cause depression. You know, I still think our society has more work to do to. But I just saw, I literally saw yesterday it was, it was dis, it was disgusting. 50% increase in just one year in suicide attempts amongst teenage girls, 50% increase.

And that’s not even keeping to account that it’s the highest teenage suicide rate in American history. So, 

Mike: um, you don’t hear much about that though. 

Alex: No. It’s just like, it’s, it’s not, you hear about friend of mine. Yeah. You know, the social dilemma did a good job of like taking our hammer and cracking this glass.

Um, but the glass is so fucking big. And that 

Mike: was also, that was also a movie too, so it could be like, oh, that was, that was a fun story. , 

Alex: right? I, I was just at dinner with someone last week and they, I told them, Hey, you should watch the social dilemma. And they said, I know all about it. No interest in watching it.

I said, why? And they said, because I know it’s gonna make me feel bad about myself, . And I just love that it’s like the equivalent of someone saying like, ah, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna watch the, the, the smoking cigarettes gives you lung cancer commercial because it’s gonna make, realize, just makes me feel 

Mike: bad smoking.

It just makes me feel bad. And, and if I feel good, I think everything will work out. That reminds me of a buddy of mine. Uh, so I met him, I met him in a gym I was going to, and uh, long story short, is he. He was overweight and he wanted to know how to lose weight and I’m pretty fit. And so he just came up to me in the gym and said, Hey, you’re like the fittest guy in this place.

Uh, it was, it was an Equinox, so in, in DC So, you know, that wasn’t necessarily that, that, uh, high of a, of a bar to get over. But, but I stay, I stay in in good shape, right? So, um, so, so he’s like, just tell me I I wanna lose 30 pounds. Can you just tell me very simply what I should do? And um, so he probably weighed two 30 and I said, yeah, sure.

Um, eat, uh, go, go online, figure out. Let’s call it, you know, anywhere from 2000 to maybe 2,300 calories per day. Um, and maybe 180 grams of protein. I’ll let you figure out carbs and fat. Doesn’t really matter. Just go online, look at the foods you like to eat. Put together a real simple plan for yourself of stuff you like to eat.

And just, just figure out how to get your calories around there and your protein around there. And if you do that, I promise you, cuz he was in the gym five days a week, he was working. So I was like, you do that and I promise you you will lose weight. Right? And he thought that was funny because. Up until then, he had that, that was what he did not want to hear.

He had tried fad diet after fad diet and fad exercise routine after fad. And it didn’t, a little bit up, a little bit down, da da. Here he is though still 30 pounds plus overweight. And, and, uh, we ended up becoming friends. And he’s a, he’s an interesting guy. He’s a smart guy, well educated. And he just, he, you know, at that time he said, it’s funny because Carl Young spoke about he had this, this thing in, in, in filth that will be found and that basically like the things that really matter that are really going to change you or the things you least want to look at.

And he was like that. That’s the, the dietary filth that I did not wanna look at. And. I’m gonna, I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna take your word and I’m gonna, I’ll go online tonight and I’m gonna start paying attention to my calories and my protein and, uh, 15 pounds later, you know, he was laughing saying, well, uh, I guess I learned the lesson because it really is this easy, isn’t it?

Yeah. His name’s Josh. It is this easy. That’s it. You just keep going. 

Alex: Yeah. If there’s one thing I’ve learned over the past 10 years of sending success is that you can give someone all the best tools and tactics in the world, and their life would still be stuck, but if you change what someone believes, it’s possible they’ll never be the same.

And you essentially just in that moment, sort of change the people who was possible and you’re like, look, it’s this easy. You just 

Mike: have to do it. Yep. Well, um, we could probably go on and on. This has been a, a great discussion. Why don’t we wrap up. Uh, obviously people have heard the title of the book, which is the third door.

If they wanna follow you on, on social, social media, if they want to scroll in your page and like everything, or if you wanna share where they can find you or, or if you prefer to share something else, where, where can they find you if they wanna learn more? No, that’s great. 

Alex: Yeah, no, as you said, you know, the book is wherever people like to buy books.

So whether that’s, you know, audio books, I, I read audio book, uh, on Audible or, you know, physical books with Amazon or Parts Noble. Um, and if you ended up listening to the podcast and got the book because of it, you know, let me know. You know, Instagram is at Alex Vanay and Twitter’s at Alex Vanay. Um, and dude, I just wanna say thank you to you.

Uh, this has been so fun and it, this conversation went place that I did not expect. Um, so that was very enjoyable. 

Mike: Yeah, I enjoyed it as well. And again, thank you for your time and, uh, maybe we can figure out, uh, another discussion to have after this one is out. I would love. Well, I hope you liked this episode.

I hope you found it helpful, and if you did subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don’t miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you.

And if you didn’t like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have, uh, ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike muscle for, muscle f o r, and let me know what I could do better or just, uh, what your thoughts are about maybe what you’d like to see me do in the future.

I read everything myself. I’m always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode, and I hope to hear from you soon.

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