Ep. #866: David Nurse on How to Create Breakthroughs

Mike: Hello and welcome to Muscle for Life. I’m Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today for an interview I did with my buddy David Nurse, about realizing your potential and specifically about creating breakthroughs. Now, what is meant by that? Well, breakthroughs are quantum leaps in improvement. Not small incremental gains, but major improvements, and that can be in business or in life.

And this is something that David knows a little bit about. He did just release a book called Breakthrough, which has his actionable blueprint to increase your innovation and increase your creativity and increase your ability to find those key actions, those key ideas that will. All of the difference.

And David wrote this book because in his day job, he works with some of the most successful N B A players and NBA coaches, and helps them create breakthroughs in their work, in their ability to play and coach basketball. And in this book, David is sharing the habits and the routines that he has used to help so many of these athletes and these coaches.

And he shows how they can be applied to any area of life. And so in this interview, you will hear from David on several things. He’ll talk about what breakthroughs are, and he shares a framework you can use to have them more frequently. He talks about the value of competition, developing self-confidence, the fear of failure, the self-made lone genius myth, how to make more and more impactful personal connections and how to build a network and more.

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No forms, no return even is necessary so you can’t lose. Go to buy legion.com/pulse. Order now. Use the coupon code muscle save 20%. Try pulse risk free and see what you think. Hey, David, thank you for, uh, taking the time to, to do this. We, we just, we just, for everybody listening, we just, uh, finished recording an episode for his podcast and we both had the time.

So, uh, I, I, I was planning on having David back on mine and then we had to reschedule and this worked out. So I’m happy 

David: Mike, dude, always an honor. And after recording with you, I kind of feel like I just want to keep asking you questions of how I can optimize my health opinion, but I guess we’ll talk about me.

Then, 

Mike: then, then I’ll, then I’ll get the complaints that, uh, I ta I talk too much. Why don’t I just shut up and let my guests talk, which I understand. I, I was bad in that way early on. I think I’m, I’m better now. I, I at least try to not hijack conversations. 

David: Yeah. You’ve been on those podcasts though, where like they’re telling everything that they think.

And then you’re like, yeah, well, okay. Why was I on this podcast? So, yep, I get it. There’s a balance with it and Yes, exactly. So 

Mike: the book, uh, uh, breakthrough, tell us about this book. Why did you write it? 

David: Great question. So my question to you is, in 2022, coming up this year, we got coming up. Would you like a breakthrough?

Laura? What does that mean? What’s a breakthrough? Oh, e even better, even better question. But first, would you like one? Does it sound like something enticing to you, Mike? Would you in some area? Sure. So long 

Mike: as it’s not a breakthrough infection, I’ll, I, I’ll , I’ll, I’ve, I’ve already, I’ve already had, I’ve already had Covid though, so I don’t care.

David: Isn’t that funny? Like, come out with this book and then people are like, wait, whoa, whoa. Is it, is it, is it about breakthrough infection? , come on. But hey, if you pick it up because of that reason. Even better. Yeah. It would be like maybe me releasing a 

Mike: line of booster supplements. 

David: Yeah. Maybe not a great idea.

That’s it. That’s it. I had this first, by the way. Yeah. Anyways. Yep. So a breakthrough is, is is a very abstract term When you think about it. You don’t really know exactly what it is. It’s these little strokes of Lu luck hack happy accidents that happened and you’re like, man, that was cool. Now how do I recreate that?

So I’ve been thinking on and through years of working with N B A players and seeing how the, the highest level athletes, N B A coaches, CEOs now, and seeing how they perform on a daily basis, the habits that they create, the routines that they live in. Basically the formula that they have to create their breakthrough.

I was like, okay, there’s something to this. Why do we have to just hope and wish for breakthroughs in our lives to come? Why don’t we live in a formula? So we create breakthroughs to actually occur? And now when I say this, I’m not saying, Mike, man, your breakthrough if you live in this, it’s gonna happen tomorrow.

It’s just like you brush your teeth one time and your, your teeth are still gonna rot if you don’t do it. It’s a lifestyle. It’s a formula that you continue to live. So there’s four parts to it. We can get into each part. I’m just gonna give the overview first. The first part is confidence. So you, it starts with confidence.

And confidence is tied to not your resume, not your results, not what other people are saying about you at all. It starts from within who Your true self-awareness, who you are at the core. So when you meet somebody, most people will say, Hey, what do you do? What do you do? Especially out here in, in la everybody’s sizing each other up.

Like, yeah, what do you do? What do you, but when was the last, who do you, who do you know? 

Mike: Who, who are you partying with last night? 

David: Yeah. What’s your Instagram numbers? When was the last time someone said, who are you? Like, you take everything away. Who are you at the core, and it all starts with who? Simon Sinek made it hot to say.

It starts with why? No, it doesn’t. You have to know yourself first before you know where you’re going. So the first piece is confidence. Then you add that with what I call cooperation, which is with others teamwork. You can’t do anything alone. There’s just like no one’s ever done anything alone by themselves to achieve greatness, but it’s also putting yourself around people who aren’t necessarily like you.

We have different strengths for a reason and a purpose. Far too often, society will tell us, Hey, that’s your weakness. Increase it. We’re defined by our weaknesses. But weaknesses are just another term for our compliments. Wishlist, meaning like, let’s take the 98 bulls, the Chicago Bulls, 98 bulls. They were not all just superstars.

It was mj. The best score. Scotty Pippen, the. Wingman sidekick Robin to the Batman. Steve Kerr, the best shooter. Dennis Rodman, the best crazy man. You don’t know what color Harry he’s gonna show up with, or he is gonna get kicked outta the game or not. These are different pieces put together to make this ultimate team.

It’s what I call embracing your misfit. We’re all misfits, we all have quirks. We’re all different. Put that together with different people. You make this ultimate team in that same breath. Mike, don’t just have your, your support team. I know it’s, it’s really cliche to say, yeah, I just gotta get to my support team.

Yeah, your support team is always gonna tell you, you’re doing great. Oh, it’s okay. Get back out of there. Good, good job. But when has somebody had their challenge team, like, I don’t wanna be around. Yes men. I don’t want to be that. The American Idol singer who goes in and his family tells him he’s great, but really he is horrible.

I surround my myself with people who will challenge me and support me. That’s what the best leaders do. So finding your challenge and support team is part of the team cooperation. That’s the where. So as you see here, we got the who confidence, your core self-awareness, the foundation. Now you got your team around you.

This is your where, and the question is what are you doing? So if you’re doing, if you gotta look at it and if you’re doing what you are doing on a daily basis for yourself, for financial gain, for Instagram followers, for fame, you will never be content. You will never be satisfied. We’ve been both around billionaires, millionaires, and they have all the money in the world, but they’re miserable because they’re looking at their bank account and they’re like, oh, this is, this is why I should be content.

You’ll never be it. No one ever has in the history of ever. So you’re not gonna be the first person. So the what is about service? And when I say that too, people are like, uh, you know, uh, I go down to the local food bank and, and that’s great. Keep doing that. But true, genuine service is about giving your time.

In your energy when it is not convenient for you, when it does not fit in your Google colored calendar. When you have a Zoom meeting at three o’clock and somebody needs you and you pour into that person, and I like, admittedly, I’m terrible at it. Like, I ha I love to do, do, do, do, do. And there’ll be times when my wife will just come over in the afternoon to where I’m sitting and doing my work at the, at the house.

And so to try to gimme a hug and, you know, spend some time with me, everybody gotta, Taylor just, oh wait, I got, I got this call. Let me get a few more emails in. But I find myself like I’m doing those things just because they’re on the schedule so that I can have time to be with my wife later on. But she needed me in that moment.

And there’s people that will always need. Like I’ve had times, man, especially now, the world that we live in where there’s so many craziness and lies being told and, and mental health is out of control. We don’t know what people are going through. I had an opportunity years ago with a friend of mine, like I just wasn’t there for him when he was giving me signs and now he’s not here any longer.

Like that’s real. That happens. We can be that person that serves others when it’s not convenient for us. That’s the what. And finally, the last piece is purpose. This is the why. This is the why. Now, don’t get this confused. It’s not necessarily about the what you are doing, saying, I’m gonna go on this old mystical journey and live with the monks and find my why.

No, it’s not about necessarily the what you’re doing, it’s who you are doing it for. So you, if you’re in a job right now and you’re like, man, I don’t really like it. Okay, all right. But who are you doing it for? Are you doing it for your, for your family? Are you, are you showing up at this job that you might not like going to as a reflection for your kids to show ’em, Hey, dad’s gonna get up, or mom’s gonna get up and work their butt off every single day.

This relentless consistency. And then I’m a big proponent too, on the most attractive thing somebody can have in figuring out their purpose. Their why is embracing the God-given gift and passion they have inside of them. Meaning, for example, you go down to the coffee shop and that barista is so obsessed with making the perfect cup where he is like, oh, this Mike, this bean was roasted in Honduras at uh, 37 degrees Fahrenheit, that this.

Dude, I, I love that he might not be making any money. He might not be, is not about that, but he is bringing people joy through his passion. That’s when you know you are in your zone. That is when passion plus purpose equals mission. You’re on. So overviewing this confidence. The who Plus cooperation, the Wear plus service.

The what Plus Purpose. Your why. You are now living in the breakthrough mode. We can get more into this, but this is the mode for when breakthroughs turn from little happy accidents into regular occurrences. 

Mike: And so let’s start with that first point. What do you, what do you mean by finding out who you 

David: are?

Yeah, it’s great question. So if you had to take everything away, so if I. David, you no longer have any association with basketball, author, speaker. Who are you to other people? Are you somebody who is encouraging, loving, caring, and that’s who I would say I am. I think that is, that is who I am at the at at the core.

I’m an encourager. And it has nothing to do with any, like, okay, well if I encourage my whole life, am I going to get any results out of it? No. I mean, maybe I won’t. Maybe I will, maybe I won’t. But I know that’s who I can wake up every day and look in the mirror, go to bed, knowing that, okay, I know who I am.

The out the extenuating circumstances, the people around society does not have to gimme validation. If I’m searching for validation from the outside, then there’s something wrong with my internal motivation on the inside. And the biggest example that I give of this is a, one of my best friends is Jeremy Lynn, who had this time called Lynn Sanity back in the N B A.

We played for the Knicks, 2012, 2013, and. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, go check it out. It’s incredible. Dude came out of complete obscurity to take over the N B A, like literally was three days away from getting cut. He was living on his, his teammate’s couch. He would’ve given up on basketball at that point, gets his opportunity and he kills.

It. Goes for 30 points a night. Game winners, game after game number one trending thing in the world. So put yourself in. 

Mike: Remember, I remember hearing about it and I, I don’t follow any professional sports really. 

David: He was a TR number one trending thing in the world. Magazines, Twitter, all this stuff. So put yourself in his shoes.

You woke up one morning and you were that number one trending thing everybody was talking about. You feel pretty good, right? But if he was being honest with you, it did not. Instead of living the appreciation and understanding who he was at the core. He was, he was thinking, man, well what if I don’t keep this up?

What will people think of me? What if, what if, what if living in the what ifs instead of the self-awareness, confidence? And, and one of the biggest breakthroughs I’ve seen him have in myself in my own coaching career, seeing him come into his own, like he knows, he stands for his faith in Jesus is standing up for his Taiwanese people.

And that he, I like to joke like he thinks he’s a great gourmet chef in the kitchen is, is very debatable, but he stands for it. So more than. what you do on the surface. 

Mike: And that can, uh, throw people for, for a loop. Because as you mentioned, many people, especially, especially here in the West, are obsessed with using wealth or, or just success in a, in a, in a career as like the primary barometer of personal value and of meaning.

And it, as you said, it, it just, it just does not work like that. And anybody who has, has, we’re talking about wealth, anybody who has made a fair amount of money will tell you that. Although I, I do know of some people who they just love making money. Uh, maybe that there is something that maybe that does speak to who they really are.

uh, like a, a friend of mine, he, he’s, he’s a great person. He, he reminds me a bit of you. He’s just very, Uh, upbeat. He’s very helpful. He’s a genuine person, and he’ll say it himself. He, he’s, look, I, you know, he ha he, he, he has a net worth of probably 500 million. He has more money than he needs, uh, and than he’ll ever need.

And he’s younger than I am. He’s 35, 36, but he just loves making money. He’s, I don’t even, I can’t even explain it to you. He’s like, I just love building my business and w and making money and watching my net worth go up. I love it. I don’t even know why , but he, every rule has the exception. Right. And, but that is, well, but that’s an 

David: interesting exception.

I, I wanna, I wanna cut you off. There is, is I love that you bring up that point. First off, I like that you compared me with somebody who said, I’m a lot like this guy who’s got a 50 million or 500 million net worth . Maybe not quite there yet, but I love Mike. I love making money. I love making money. I love growing the business that I’m doing.

I love it because I see it as a competition and it sounds like your friend does as well, so as being very competitive and I think society tries to tell us to do the opposite. Oh, competition is bad. No, it’s not. Competition is great. I’m not saying, Hey Mike, I’m coming for your throat. So there can only be one of us.

The pie doesn’t have to just be one size. It can be all mode style, like you compete against yourself, which is what your friend’s doing. He’s probably like, dude, I made uh, 20 million this month. I need 22. But he’s not gonna, he’s not gonna go, just go crazy and be super stressed out. If makes 18 million.

It’s a, it’s a number. It’s, it’s a fun competition. And I’ve turned basketball, which was my competition. I’m want to be the best shooter in the world into being the best shooting coach in the world into being the best speaker, the, the best author, or growing my bus like. Competition is super, is super healthy and super needed as long as you don’t make that your idol.

And that’s, that’s the part what people get hung up on. And what do you mean by that? So as an idol, meaning like your whole dependency on joy, your whole, I guess you could say like your whole identity is based on that. So if your friend, let’s say he had a, a low month, a really low month, and do you think he would feel like just at the end of the world, do you think he would be like, man, this is like, life can’t go on.

I’m just, I’m a horrible person. I give up. I doubt it. No, . Yeah, I bet, I bet he would think, I bet he’d be like, huh, well that didn’t work. I’m gonna go back to the drawing board and I’m gonna scheme up how I can figure this out because this is a problem for me to solve. So it’s not an idol to him, it’s a competition to him.

If it’s an idol to him, if money becomes an idol to somebody, when they lose it, their identity is gone. They are in the tank, they can’t go on. But if people see it as this, this is where the, the greatest misconception about money is. It’s transactional money was not created to be just held. It wasn’t created just a great, a large sum of huge wealth.

It was created to be transactional. And I tell people, go make a ton of money and then make sure that you are a steward with it. Like give, give your money. I’ve found it in my own life. So as you know, like I’ve, Jesus is a big important thing to me, and it’s, that’s my faith. That’s where I have, I mean like my rock.

Years ago, about three years ago, I decided to start listening to where it says tithe, give 10%. And at always, I was like, you know what, why would I give this hard-earned money that I worked for? Why would I give 10% of it? No, I’m not doing that. Like, okay, I’m gonna try this out. And it was tough. It was tough at times to be giving away thousands of dollars and, and thinking it’s my money that I earned.

But I kid you not every year that I’ve gone up and gone up, me and my wife have given more and more, more comes in. It just, it doesn’t make sense how it works other than to me it’s, it’s God just pouring down his blessings cuz we’re faithful to it. So when you’re not attached to money and you’re like, oh, I’m gonna make a ton of money because I’m gonna give it, that, that is when like wealth, money is something that is, is a healthy thing and not an idol.

Mike: I totally agree. I I think that almost flip into kind of insufficient easy come, easy go mentality toward money is very healthy and it helps develop a, I guess you could say a healthy relationship to money. Because yes, I, I, I know, and I’ve known many people over the years who have very, very strange relationships with money.

Very strange ideas about money, and in some cases people who have a lot of money, some, some, uh, of the weirdest actually ideas given circumstances are with people who you talk about hoarding money and obsessing about money that can, can become extreme in people who have a lot of money, which seems counterintuitive.

But, um, what are your, what are your thoughts on, on building self-confidence? That’s, that’s obviously a hot button for many people. And are you the fake it till you make it? Uh, are you in that camp? Are you in another camp? What are your 

David: thoughts? Yeah. And I am not in the FGO till you make it, but I am in the go do.

And even if you don’t know the exact answer, even if you don’t have it all together, go do it. You’ll learn from it. The worst thing that you can do is stay in the same spot as you’re at. Go try something, do it, do it, do it. Everybody has these ideas and and these things that they’re gonna create and everything, but then no one does it go, do.

You don’t even people coming outta college like you, you really don’t learn. Like sure you can learn some book stuff. I went, I had, I went to business school. Like I don’t remember anything from that until I went out and I did. And it’s another thing with confidence too, is you have to see some little win.

like you can say, I I, I give N B A players a seven steps to unshakable confidence. And I have this whole menu and it’s like, here’s the things that you like, you create your own confidence, your highlight reel, your confidence through comparison, who you see yourself, like who you can, I like who you can be like all these different things, but matter of fact, like if you don’t see some little wins in little success, the momentum, building momentum, you’re not going to be as confident in yourself.

So track little tiny, minor wins. Celebrate those little wins no matter what it is, man, if you’ve got sold one, one more book, or if I got somebody who reached out to me and said, man, this is like, I love the principles from breakthrough that I’m really, I’m implementing them. Write that down, write that down.

Track it, track it. I have my big three that I do every evening, and it’s three wins that either me or my wife have. I got a lot of different big threes. So there’s a big three in the goals that I’m going for. I like to keep things in three, but three wins, little joys. And I’ll look out, I’ll write those down at the end of each day.

Look at ’em in the next morning so I know like I have this momentum and then these big wins come. So you have to see this sparkle momentum. Okay. And now another thing that holds a lot of people back is this feeling of imposter syndrome. And it’s really a hot topic that people say, oh, well, you know, imposter syndrome.

Yeah. Who 

Mike: am I to do 

David: the thing? Yeah. If you are feeling imposter syndrome, that’s a great thing. Nobody who ever just sat on the couch playing video games all day, felt imposter syndrome. You are doing something if you’re feeling imposter syndrome. And you have to look at it too as like, it’s not a, it’s not a why me, why?

Like, oh, he can do that. It’s a why not me. All these people that you see quote unquote successful, you, you didn’t see the work that they put in there. If you’re not willing to go through these, these years, these times of grinding and grinding, when nobody’s seeing this success, then you can’t say that you want to be there.

You have to be willing to, willing to go through that. Like even my, who’s an N B A coach with the Toronto Raptors wins the N B A championship in his first year, and everybody’s like, whoa. Lucky first year lightning’s struck in a bottle, dude, he’d been coaching for 27 years in countries you don’t even know play basketball.

I saw him in England taping players ankles, popping popcorn at halftime. Like you don’t see all that. . So that being said, like if you want to be at that point, you have to be willing, I know it’s a cliche to say 10 years to become an overnight success, but some cliches are cliche for a reason. So I would say the biggest things that you can implement struggling with confidence is write down those little wins.

Track the little smallest wins that you have. And I mean, know that, Hey, you know what? Imposter syndrome is a good thing of a fun feeling. It embrace it. And then too, you know, one thing that I do before I get on stage and speak, and I’ve been blessed to speak, and there’ll be big audiences there and, and man, I get nervous.

Like anybody that says they don’t get nervous is probably lying to you. But before I get on stage, I say to myself, you know what, if I get on this stage and I fall flat on my face, or I forget every word that I’m supposed to say, I don’t care. Because I have God and I have my smoking hot wife. What else do I need?

like, I don’t care what other people think. Sure. I want them to like me. Sure, I want them to, but it’s, I’m not, not putting my dependency on this person in the first row who I just met. If he says he doesn’t like to talk, I don’t care, go somewhere else. So just that type of understanding that like people, people will think of you for about 10 seconds and then you’ll think about what they said for the rest of the day and it, you just can’t happen.

You just gotta detach yourself. So I’d say those three points would be the main things for people struggling with confidence. And then we can go even deeper on. The personal highlight reel and what I talked about, all the Q word and different types of ways to call up confidence. 

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Great points.

And I, we actually discussed a bit of that in our previous interview, so for people listening, if you want to hear. Yeah. Uh, because yeah, that came if I believe it came from your pivot and go book. So, uh, if people want to hear more about those things than go back and find, uh, the, I think it was the first interview that we did together on my show.

And what about fear of failure? That’s also a reason why many people, they don’t do the things that they want to do or even feel like they should 

David: do. Yes, totally. Such a good question. And we know like the, the times that you fail, the difficult things that you go through, we always look back and like, man, I’m glad I did that.

I’m glad I tried that. At least tried. We always learn from it, but yet it’s a hard thing to do. And the reason it’s so hard is, is not because necessarily we feel failure, but we fear uncertainty. We don’t know what’s going to come. Like if I was gonna tell you the day that you die, you’d be cool. Like you, you get it.

You’d probably be on the beach in Hawaii. Just, just chilling because you know that day you’re not as afraid of it. It’s like I give the I, I tell the story back when I was playing basketball in Australia, I went great white cage. Diving with the gray white sharks and they, they take you like five hours off the coast Probably.

Because if the shark eats you, nobody know about it. They just, but they put you down in these cages. Oh, 

Mike: wow. And they just go back and 

David: that’s the end of that. Yeah. Oh mate, mate, Hey mate, we lost one tonight, mate. Uh, and there are no logs of, uh, who goes where. Yeah, yeah. They don’t know. Don’t necessarily know.

But they put you down in these cages and one person in these corner, and you see these massive sharks like 10 feet long, just fangs. I’m fangs, I’m fangs. You’re looking at ’em dead in the eye. There’s even like a little hole that if you stuck your arm through there, it would be gone. And that’s not the scariest part though.

The scariest part is when you look off into the ocean and you see nothing and you don’t know when they’re going to strike. So the fear of uncertainty is actually why people feel fear failure, because we don’t know what’s going to happen. We’re afraid to take that risk. And I’d like to say too is, is that.

I believe everybody has been given a gift, a God-given gift. And now let’s say, Mike, we’ll set this analogy up is let’s say you love playing the piano. Okay? So I get you this great, beautiful, majestic grand piano for Christmas. It’s, it’s awesome. It’s, it’s gorgeous, but you put it in the corner and put a tarp over it, and you don’t play it because you’re afraid of what somebody else might think.

If you play that thing, that’s a slap in my face that is disrespect to me, and it’s disrespectful to the, to our creator, whether you think it’s God, whether who gave you this gift, if you’re just gonna keep it inside of you. So I tell people, Hey, if you have a gift, go do it. Go try it. Go, go see where it takes you.

The, like, the, the most selfish thing you can do is just hold it in. Because we have, we have this ability to help others. We have this ability to, I mean as, as small as it might be, take little chips off the block to, to. Make a better society or encourage people. And I know it’s, it’s an uphill battle for fighting because there’s so many people the opposite way.

But use your gift, take a chance. The only thing that’s gonna happen is you’ll be at the same spot that you were. Like when I got coach in the N B A I hand wrote a letter to every N B A GM and I didn’t have any connections to get into the N B A. And long story short, I had one, one N B a GM for the Clippers to get in touch with me.

We ended up having a meeting out in LA and basically I just acted like I had a basketball camp, so I didn’t look desperate to get out there. Every connection came from this guy. I, I lived with him when I moved out to la He was in my wedding. Gary Sax is his name. But that saying, it’s, it, it’s scary to take that chance cuz okay, what if nobody gets back to me then am I nothing?

Am I a nobody? But take that chance because the worst that can happen is you’ll be at the same exact spot. It’s only house money we’re playing with that. That’s 

Mike: a great story, and, and I totally, totally agree.

If you like what I’m doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my sports nutrition company Legion, which thanks to the support of many people like you, is the leading brand of all natural sports supplements in the world. Y you mentioned that you don’t care what other people think and, and I’m very much the same way.

Uh, but I’d, I’d like to hear your thoughts on. Uh, well, one that can sound Hmm. Maybe a bit arrogant, uh mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. a bit, kind, a bit aloof. Right. And, and then two, how do you balance that with, uh, looking for feedback, looking to be challenged? You had mentioned, um, that, and, and I think that’s a great point.

It’s something that there, I, I don’t think there is nearly enough of starting with people who want to be challenged. Like, I, I don’t want to go, I’m gonna hijack the conversation if I keep going, but that’s, that’s just one of those things that I wish, I wish I had. My, my, my rich friend who I mentioned who loves to build his business, one of the things that I really like about our friendship is, um, he’s, he’s genuinely a very friendly guy, but he’s also quick to disagree with me if.

and tell me he disagrees with me and he knows now we know each other well. That he doesn’t have to sugar coat it for me. He doesn’t have, I don’t need a preamble to butter me up and soften me up so he can just tell me how I’m wrong. He knows, he can just say, nah, I wouldn’t do that. That’s not a good idea.

Here’s why I wouldn’t do, I would do this instead. And he knows that I like that. Like I, I appreciate that and, and many people, I, I, I just don’t, I just don’t see much of that. I wish I had more of those people in my life who could look from the, from the outside and see things that I don’t see. Like I have him to do that for me in my business cuz he loves business and he likes my business and so he keeps tabs on things and we have conversations and so he’s quick to be able to give.

Good advice that is immediately relevant to my circumstances, blah, blah, blah. But I don’t have that for my relationship with my wife, for example. I don’t have that for other parts of my life. And I wish I did. I wish I had somebody who, as a friend, because they care, not cuz they’re trying to just put me down, would do the same thing, would challenge me.

Why are you doing it that way? Have you ever thought about doing this? Hey, uh, here’s an idea to consider. Uh oh, that idea of yours. That’s probably wrong. Here’s why. Um, and so I, I, I, I realize now I’ve gone on, there are two things that I want to hear now from you on. Well would in a, I’ll let you take them up in whatever order is most interesting to you.

Uh, there’s, there’s that whole bit that I just shared and then going back to how I started that was not, not caring about what others think. Do you, do you have any thoughts as to, is that how you always were? Is that something you cultivated? And how do you do that without just being an arrogant prick?

David: Yeah. Two, two phenomenal points there. And it’s definitely not something that was always there. It’s, it’s a, it’s a learning process over time. And just like anything skillset development that you can see or for your, for your profession at, you see yourself with body development. You see yourself growing, you see tangible results in the mindset space.

It’s, it’s tough for people because you don’t see tangible results. Yep. But so 

for 

Mike: the, and feelings can be so fickle, right? I mean, up, up one day for unknown reasons, down the next day for 

David: unknown reasons. That’s why it’s so important to build these mindset habits, these mindset tools. Just like you would go spend an hour in the gym, your goals are to try to become the best, strongest version, uh, healthiest version of yourself.

But if you’re not doing anything for the mind and having the same type of approach, it’s. It’s hit or miss. That’s where those happy accidents come in. But to the point, and, and I think it’s 

Mike: fair to say, just to, just to interject quickly, right? Yeah. That if we’re not consciously working on something to make it better, it just gets worse.

And that just seems to be a, a law of the universe really. I mean, it applies to every, every physical thing, right? And it also seems to apply, it certainly applies to our bodies, and it also seems to apply to, to our minds, it, it seems to apply to us in a spiritual sense for whatever that means to different people.

David: That’s spot on. Absolutely spot on. 

Mike: I wish that weren’t the case, but just, you know, it would make things a bit 

David: easier. . Well, I mean, like, let’s say, hey, let’s say I get to a point in my body composition and I’m like, you know what, I, this is exactly where I wanna be and I’m not gonna do anything from here now.

And then you stop training 

Mike: and then you just get even stronger and leaner and Yeah, unfortunately, , 

David: it’s exactly how it is, but it’s, it’s hard for people to see it that way cuz it’s not tangible. And, and man, when I say like, I don’t care what people think, like I, I want them to, I want them to like me, I’m human, but I don’t, I don’t put my daily joy in what somebody else says.

And if somebody like, I’ll definitely get people on Instagram or people that are like, oh, that’s terrible. Haters, trollers, things like, You know what? I love that because if somebody in their life has enough time to send something like that, I know that I’m doing something. I know that there’s people out there that are absolutely loving it, that there’s like, there, there’s like, there’s tons of stats and polls taken on this.

I think it’s like 18% of people will not like you. It’s like it’s hard to get under that percentage. So just see it what it is. People aren’t gonna like you and I’m not gonna waste my time and I’m not gonna be chasing them down. It’s the same thing with like, when somebody burns you or, and I’ve been burnt so many times and I know you ha everybody has, and you just want to hold that grudge against them.

Like, man, they did that to me. But if you do, then they’re winning double on you. Like I’m always one of like, I’m going to forgive you, but I’m not gonna forget it. Like, I’m not gonna let you control me by the negative thing that you said or you burning me like I forgive you, but. I’m not gonna forget. And I even, 

Mike: I totally agree and I even try to remain conscious of, of my thoughts, right?

Because if, if you are spending time just kind of raking over whatever happened again and again and again in your mind, then you can look at it, uh, like you just said, oh, that’s them winning still, essentially, right? Yeah. As the internet would say, living rent free in your, in your head, right? . But, but it’s also just not a good use of time and energy.

I mean, you hold on to negative shit for too long. That’s how, that’s how you get cancer, man. 

David: That’s shit, man. See, you’re more hip than me, man. Yeah. I didn’t know the living rent free thing. , you’re more hip than me. Hey. But to the challenge of the challenge group thing. Like, why that’s so important is people can always just tell you that you’re doing a great job and they can just Yes, man, and you can, they just pat you on the back and it’s not really, and so 

Mike: many people seem to want that though.

Then I’ve had that, I’m speaking from a, a place of personal disappointment in personal relationships where, yeah, I realize that this person, they don’t want to ever be even, they don’t even want it to be insinuated that they are wrong about anything. They don’t want to talk about it, they don’t want to explore, they don’t.

So I’m just, you know, and then to me it just then feels like, uh, it’s, there’s something that’s, is just not fulfilling to me in, in, in a relationship like that where I, I just feel like with this person, , you know, I’ll, I’ll then I’ll just talk about sports ball, I’ll talk about the weather, I guess. , you know what I mean?

I don’t know, like I’ll just, where I feel like I’m not trying to be malicious at all, but, uh, I’m just not gonna say that even though I think it would make for an interesting discussion. But I know that they’re just gonna get hyper defensive. They’re gonna go right into their bunker mentality or just say nothing.

Just, you know. Okay. Okay, 

David: okay. Yeah, people like that are insecure of themselves. And I, I’m the same way, man. I don’t want to have surface level conversations. Life’s too short to just have everybody tell you how good you are. And, and people that, that, that do do that. It, it drives me nuts cuz it is like, Hey, if I’m asking you a question, I’m like, I want you honest feedback.

Yeah. Like I, I’m asking people that I really, really trust right now that will challenge me on the next direction that I’m going with the book, with my books. I got a whole series plan that’s gonna be a, it’s gonna be different. It’s gonna be completely different. And I need them to be like, David, what are you thinking?

You cook? Like, no, that’s not gonna work. And I’ll respect that. It doesn’t mean I’m going to agree with them, but it’s even like, my, my whole thing is I’m, I’m always gonna go for wisdom to people who are wise in that field. And, and, and so many people were like, well, my, my mom, she told me like this, like, I’m not going to my mom for business advice.

She has no idea. Like, that’s not saying I like, I love my mom. She’s awesome. Amazing, supportive. But our parents want us to be safe. So if we’re saying something like, we’re gonna take this chance, go for this risk. Can mom’s like, no, no, no, no. Honey, honey, honey. Go get that. Nine to five, get on the 401k. Mom’s gotta be right.

No, no. Go for wisdom to people who are wise. And man, I said like in my life, like I, I have. These people like John Gordon or Ed Mullet, who I know of I can reach to, and I’m not saying those names cuz they’re big names, but, but they’ll challenge me. They’ll be like, David, come on. Like go. I’ll bring them with big ideas that I’m doing and they’ll either be like, no, that’s not gonna work.

You don’t want that. It’s not actually what you want. Or go for it. Like even when I got offered two years ago, I got offered by the Phoenix Suns to run their whole player development. Something that would’ve been a dream to me. I would’ve been able to bring in all these optimization coaches like sleep, blah blah, blah, nutrition and just kind of just this thing I’ve always wanted.

And everybody around me was like, oh wow, David n b a, you’re back. Okay, great. This is a great job. And I told John this and I’m here thinking like, oh man, this is gonna be great. I’m gonna do this. And John Gor is like, is this really what you want? You really think you are called to be in an B a gym for the rest of your life.

Is this really what you want? It’s like I, I see bigger impact on you, much more than I’m writing books. Think like, I was like, whoa, okay. This guy was willing to challenge me. And those people that will challenge you. They’re the ones that are gonna lead you to your great. If not, you’ll settle for your good, you’ll settle for the good opportunities.

And the, the enemy of of our great is not bad. It’s easy to see what bad choices are. It’s those good ones that people settle for that keep ’em from their great. And if you don’t have a challenge team around you, you’ll never know. You know, it’s something 

Mike: that, that I have thought about, uh, a number of times.

And my, my latest, uh, position, basically, uh, on, on what you just said is it’s so easy for us to settle into circumstances and become comfortable with them no matter how good or bad they are. Right. And. We’ve all probably experienced this ourselves and seen it in others where, particularly where it’s bad and you wonder how is this person not getting out of that crazy relationship or changing up their crazy work environment and how are they okay with that?

Right. And, and really what, I guess what I’m getting at is, um, we all have a, an infinite capacity for self delusion. Right. And it, it’s, it’s naive to think that only the other people do it. Not us. No, of course. We all do it. Yeah. And so something that I, I have hit on that, that seems to be workable, um, at least more correct than incorrect is the key, and this has been a theme in this talk, is to always be working to make things better.

Because unfortunately we don’t. How good things can be. And this, I think this applies to any dimension of our existence, period. We don’t know how good things can be and we don’t know what it’s gonna be like when things are that good. So it it when, because we don’t know it again, makes it very easy to just focus on what we know, what’s in front of us and the way things are.

And so if we’re not working to improve circumstances, unfortunately we, we may never find out what we are capable of or just how great any part of our life can be. And if, if we do just consistently though work to make things better, then we may not reach it. There’s a chance now we may be able to find out how far we can go, you know?

David: Hmm, hmm. Such a good point. And that’s, that’s potential. And I think the, that word’s thrown around there so much like, oh, potential. And I’ve been around these great N B A players who have potential to take over the N B A potential. Potential means absolutely nothing. Hmm. It is a word that is placed upon us that that set our own self limitations.

Other people put limitations on us. Like if I was gonna tell somebody, Hey, you got potential to be a hundred thousand dollars a year guy, automatically they’re thinking, That’s my limit. No, it’s not. It’s your own self-created limit. So throw potential out the window. Like there’s never a, oh, well I reached my potential.

We don’t know what that is. Like, you can keep going and keep going and keep going. And that’s the fun in it. Like that’s the competition. That’s the drive. Now me and you are both very, uh, intrinsically driven as it is. Some people, a lot of people aren’t that way and they just don’t know. Like, I’m not, I’m not shaming people if you’re not, but you just don’t know what’s out there.

So you gotta paint the picture for people. Like, Hey, you know what, like what could be, how much better it can actually get? Like, you don’t have to be stuck in this little cubicle. You really don’t. I mean, this job that you say you don’t like and this thing that you really love doing, like you can actually get there and actually do it.

So I like to do things with, with people that I. Is called the coming five years party. So you get extremely detailed. You even dress up like it, like you go super into this is who you are going to be in five years. And once you paint that picture, once people paint that picture, they see it. And then I’ll ask ’em that question like, Hey, do you really believe you can get there?

And if the, like, sometimes they’ll be like, you know what, maybe not so much. And some people will say yes and this, and then it’s, then it comes down to, okay, that is where, you know you can go, we’ll eventually get them to convince like, you know, in five years you can be at this point and that’s, that’s what you want.

Like, that’s it. It might change, but at least you know what direction you’re going. Now you just work your way back from there. It’s like having a, a pot of gold. That pot of gold, like on the treasure map, there’s different spots you’re gonna have to stop at. You gotta just figure out what those spots are.

But showing people what can be in painting a picture of how great the future can be for them. is what’s gonna get a lot of people who are these worst, I mean, guess content and not, not very driven. Not for the fact that they don’t wanna be, they just don’t know where to go or how to get started. 

Mike: Talk to us about the self-made myth, the lone genius myth.

The idea that you can just really go it alone and achieve greatness. Mm-hmm. 

David: no. Such a good question. And nobody is self-made. First off, our gifts are given to us. We are just able to use those gifts. Gifts for others. But even in the, in the sense of like, let’s say, let’s say you have your own gifts, you are not self-made.

There is, I hate the term self. Nobody, nobody’s self-help. You can’t help yourself. You need others. Personal, personal development is bs like you have to have, it’s not just about yourself. And nobody can get anywhere without, without others around ’em. And it’s just, I mean it the, I’ve never seen it done before and that’s why it’s so important to surround yourself with people who are, are big dreamers, are driven, motivated, are not these negative energy vampire suckers.

Like nobody says, you know what, I, a guy at work, like, he’s always bringing me down. He’s always complaining. I love being around him. We get the choice to, to be around the people we want. Sure. We might have to put up with them even like during Christmas time or these holidays. Like, you don’t have to want to be around everybody in your family.

No. You, you can still love ’em, but you don’t have to give them time and energy to it. But yeah, I mean, Just think about the opportunities that you’ve got in your life. All of us think listening to this, was it somebody who introduced you to somebody else? Was it an opportunity that somebody heard of you on, let’s say I get a speaking gig from this podcast.

Did I make myself, no, Mike, you gave me this platform, you gave me this opportunity. And there is nothing more important than the relationships that we build. To me, that’s, that’s the most fun part of all of this. Like we talked offline, like I love, I love pouring into people and, and hearing their story and seeing where if there’s a way that I can help them, cuz I love people seeing genuine joy in their life.

That’s what I, that’s what I figured out when I was training in N B A All-Star, the man I had like the best of the best N B A players on the court one summer training every day. And I was like, I don’t really care about teaching ’em another step back move or jump shot. Like I love to see when they’re encouraged.

I’d love to see when they have true, genuine joy and. Like that doesn’t happen alone, nor is it, nor is it even fun alone. Then you’re that person who’s on their deathbed and like, well, I traveled the world. I made all this money. I did all like, but who did I have to share with? Yeah. Who’s, who’s 

Mike: gonna show up to my funeral?

David: Uh, . So nobody shortlist, uh, . 

Mike: And, and that’s something that I think it shines through just in your personality. And, uh, I, I’m curious though, to hear a little bit about, of, a little bit about the mechanics of making connections. And, and the reason, the reason I bring that up is, um, it’s something. I don’t put much time into myself.

I don’t know. Maybe I could be good at it if I, if I wanted to be. Uh, I, I mostly, I guess just like I’ve said offline, I kind of just stay in my cave and work on the next book and work on the next podcast. And, and as far as the help I get from others, people like you, a lot of it is what, what falls into my lap, so to speak.

So I’m not actively, at least not very actively out there cultivating these new relationships. And that’s something that you seem to do very well. And I, I know part of that is, is an, there is an X factor. Uh, your, your personality plays into that in your natural talents. Play into that, no doubt. But I’m sure there also is, uh, a bit of a formula too there.

There is a a method, I’m 

David: sure. Totally. And I have in the book a connection calculator that goes into these things that you have to filter through to make sure this connection. Is correct. But the first point I wanna say is like, that’s who you are and you know who you are. You’re not trying to be somebody else.

So number one, be who you are and why things fall into your lap is because of the person that you are. You genuinely care about others and you’re not going out to seek these. But people like myself or other people, they’re like, Hey, I like being around Mike. Like why wouldn’t I introduce him with this friend of mine?

So at the end of the day, connections, I love doing it cuz I love seeing my friends succeed. I truly, genuinely love it when I’ll see, like if your book goes New York Times bestseller, I promise you I will be celebrating man. I love it And I love putting good people together cuz I think like, Hey, this guy’s amazing.

This guy’s amazing. Your girl, like, can’t they do amazing things together? Sure. And yeah. Yes. I love, I guess selfishly being the one who puts ’em together, cuz they’re, they’re always gonna remember me. They’re like, oh yeah, David put us together. That’s cool. So there’s that cultivating piece, being that connector, but it is not, this is where people get, uh, misconception.

It is not LinkedIn. It is not hitting people up. It is not the times that I get dms that say, man, I’d love to connect. I’d love to pick your brain or, or take 

Mike: you out for coffee. Or like, I mean, even if it is a, a genuine, and maybe the person’s a little bit naive, I mean, think about our, our time. Like, I don’t, I don’t even have that much time to spend with my kids.

I’m, I’m not gonna meet you for coffee. 

David: I’m sorry. Right. Exactly. I’m not, it’s not, I’m not trying to be mean, but I’m gonna spend my free time with my wife, like, Random Joe who just DMed me. Like, sorry. So here’s the way I’m gonna give you, I’m gonna give listeners a hint of how to do this. Okay? So if you’re gonna mess with somebody, let’s say you’re reaching out to somebody that you wanna meet.

One, don’t ever say, let me pick your brain. Like, no, that’s, I’m turn you off right away. Don’t just give broad things like, Hey, can you tell me how you got to where you are? Don’t ask, do not ask for anything. It’s the complete opposite. If you were reaching out to me, here’s how you would do it. You read breakthrough, you saw this chapter, you saw something in, they’re like, this is incredible.

You sent me a message, David, I just wanted to let you know, man, you are doing amazing things. I’ve read Breakthrough, actually going through it a second time. Here’s this chapter that really hit me. I’ve been sharing it with my friends, like, if there’s anything I can do for you, like I’m in your corner, there’s no pressure on me to, to, to think that I have to do something.

And you also put in there too, like, this is one, this is one huge key that I’ve seen. Work time and time again. Put in there, man, no pressure at all. Like definitely don’t feel like you have to, if you put it already in there that they don’t feel like they have to, they’re more likely to do. But you gotta serve, you gotta pour into ’em, you gotta do this, and you gotta expect nothing in return.

Like, I’ll send people messages that I just really respect. I’m like, dude, you’re like, I love your content. I love the light you are, I won’t get anything back, but maybe I will. That’s the real way to do it. And it’s not just, yeah, sure, I wanna meet these people, or people wanna meet me or you, but you, you gotta do it a different way cuz no one’s just gonna give you a 20 minutes.

Like, I’m gonna give you 30 minutes. I’m gonna charge, like, I’ll charge you if you wanna talk about it for 30 minutes, or if you want to learn how to do this, get on my coaching session. Like I’m, I’m, I’m charging 15,000 for a talk to companies for an hour. Like, pay the hourly rate if you want to, but if you’re gonna pour into me and serve, give, give, give without expecting anything in return.

Then that’s when it, it, it separates you and it comes back to you in return. 

Mike: Great advice. Great advice. And I don’t even give talks. I don’t do coaching. So I’ll, I’ll, I’ll have people even say, Hey, I’d love to pay for some of your time. And I, I don’t even know what to charge. And, and again, my time, my time is so short these days.

Whatever would make sense would be so inappropriate to ask because I don’t just have my next book, article or podcast. I also ha have to run Legion. And that takes, I mean, I have a great team, but it still takes my time. And so I, I mean, again, I, I, I don’t, uh, I don’t like to, to have to say no. To Yeah. When, when I, when I, when I get those, uh, those types of messages.

But, but what you just shared is, is I, I, I totally agree. I totally agree. And that that’s at least the, the way to, to start cultivating what, what could become a relationship. And, uh, I, I will say, I’m sure you have as well, I have made many, many e friends, uh, people I’ve never met, but over the years, who, that’s how it started.

They emailed me usually and they read one of my books and they really liked it. And they maybe had a question, and I’m happy to, to answer questions. And they just stayed in touch and they read the next book. They came out and mm-hmm. . And there are, there have been instances where I’ve, I’ve got on Skype calls or Zoom calls with people and given them and not charged anything.

Cause I didn’t, I didn’t really even know it would be appropriate to ask. Uh, but just give them 30 minutes of my time because this person has been. Emailing me and staying in touch. Yeah. And keeping me posted for, for like three years, you know? Yes. So I, that’s where I feel like, all right, this is, this is appropriate.

And I, I don’t, I’m happy to spend some time because I feel like this is a friend, uh, uh, of sorts, you know, I have never met them, but I, I know them virtually. And so I, I, I totally, totally agree with what you just said. 

David: I, I love that you said that. It’s a long game. It is literally a long game. People will come to me like, well, he didn’t get back to me the first time.

I’m you kidding me? Like, you really think, like, is that what you wanted? You want it to be transactional. You want it to be relational. Yep. Like, even I made that decision with the NBA players that I work with. Like, I’m not going to, so many trainers on there will use players like, oh, look who I’m working with, or look who I’m with.

I want these guys like, I like these guys. I, they’re my, some of my best friends. I want ’em to be friends when we’re 80 years old. I want these relationships that I’m developing with you, these other people who are doing great things in the space, like, I don’t want this to be, to be a transactional thing.

Like this is relational, this is long-term true friendships. So don’t, don’t play that little short game. 

Mike: Totally agree. And in business, I think that, uh, there, there are, there is a, there is a place for transactional relationships and I actually appreciate people who are very open about that when it is transactional, let’s say it’s a marketing type of thing, and it, it is just a tit, a tit for tat.

They’re not looking for a friendship per se. Totally fine with me. And in, in that case, I do appreciate if they make it clear that, look, I have something that you would like, you have something that I would like, uh, we should exchange things that we each other would like and I think we’ll both be happy.

You know? 

David: Yes. That’s kind of the, I mean, totally good point that you made that, and sometimes friendships will happen from there, but you understand like, true, hey, we’re gonna, we’re gonna trade these things. Money for money, something for something. But that’s where it starts and that’s completely communicated.

Mike: Totally. Well, uh, we could, we could probably easily go on for, for another hour, but I’ve found that, uh, probably around the hour mark is a, is a good place to, to end a lot of the interviews. And so, um, I want to thank you again for taking the time. And the book is Breakthrough. It is available everywhere people buy books, uh, I’m assuming.

There it is everywhere. There it is. Yep. And so pick up a copy and give it a read. Start reading it again. Shoot David a dm. Let ’em know what you thought of the book. What did you like about it? What’d you like most? And, and challenge ’em too. How about, how about, uh, people tell you. What they liked the most and what they didn’t like, what they thought.

Great. You could have done better. I mean, I have gotten so many good critiques and suggestions over the years that actually is, I would say at least 50% of the changes that I’ve made in. So I’m, I’m releasing a fourth edition of Bigger, leaner, stronger and Thin. Leaner Stronger in Q1 of next year. Over the next couple of months, they’ll come out and then in the summer, maybe I’ll do something fun to officially announce it.

Um, and what I, what I’ve done since the beginning is I’ve kept a running list and, and of, of suggestions and critiques that people have made and I have gone. every review. I mean, there was a time when I would read every review of every book on Amazon and reply to every single one too. Now you can’t reply anymore, so I can still just look and I got so many, so many good ideas for how I can improve those books.

And so I have to give credit for the, the evolution of those books. At least half of the ideas came from people who were, uh, respectfully, sometimes, not even respectfully, but I don’t care. They can , they can, they can say all of the, all of the nasty things they want, but when I get criticism, Again, even if it’s nasty, I am first interested in the substance.

Is there something there? Are they actually making a good point? They’re just a dick. They could just be nicer about it, but they’re not. That’s valuable to me. And but, but in a lot of cases it’s people just offering, trying to offer constructive criticism. And I love that. I, I’ve gotten so many good ideas that way.

So for people listening, I’m sure, David, you feel the same 

David: way. That’s a great point. Please, I need to do more of that because it’s not necessarily always what I think is the best thing to put out there. What other people. Totally, man, I’m taking that. Please gimme constructive criticism and Cause you wanna write 

Mike: more books, so, I mean, you know, you have a lot 

David: more stuff.

Yeah. We, we might be doing this every year at this time, Mike. One a year. So just, uh, pencil me in for next year at this time. But I’m, I’m gonna tell people here’s the challenge too. If you’re a true leader, buy 10 of these books and then go get 10 more people to buy it. There you go. Love it. True leader.

Mike: Love it. Love it. And um, also, where can people find you if they wanna follow you? You have your podcast, you’re active on social media. What, what do you want people to know about 

David: Yes, so totally. So David nurse dot com’s a website and I’m really putting more of an emphasis on the group coaching. It’s a, what they call the Be the Breakthrough Group.

It’s a special group, man. The people that want to make changes in their life. and it’s this, this cohort, this community where we help each other basically build their breakthrough blueprint. Like let’s say, Hey, I’m in this job, I don’t know how to get out of it. We go through group coaching and we give you, by the end of the 12 weeks, here’s your blueprint, here’s the formula, now go do it.

So the group coaching on David nurse.com, that’s something I’m putting a huge emphasis on this year. Love doing it. Social media, David, nurse, n b, and podcast. Just search my name. It’s gonna be changing the name. So I’m not exactly sure when that’s gonna happen. 

Mike: Are you already, have you already decided on the new name or not yet?

David: Oh yeah. The new name is Encouragement. Cool. And there’s a reason why it’s Enco and we’ll break it down. The first episode’s gonna tell you why it is and why, what encouragement actually truly means. So it’ll be encouragement with David Nurse. Yep. and yeah. 

Mike: I mean, if you ever get out here to, I’m suspecting that courage is a, is an operative part of that.

David: Yeah. And in starts with the inside Then, right? In Mint might be a play on mint success. Wanna find out what true success is. So it might be that three part, it might it is. Cool. Anyways, that’s how you find me. 

Mike: Awesome. Well, thanks again, David. I look forward to the next one. Uh, we’ll, we’ll have to, to brainstorm what, what else we could talk about.

David: And I, I don’t think it’ll be too hard. Mike, you’re the man. Dude. Thanks for having me on your podcast. Like it’s a, it truly is an honor and a blessing when someone has built something so great and have such a great committed following to continue to bring me on. Like, that’s, that’s huge, man. Thank you. 

Mike: My pleasure. And thank you for, for the time and for the wisdom. I love it. Well, I hope you liked this episode. I hope you found it helpful, and if you did subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don’t miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you.

And if you didn’t like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have, uh, ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike muscle for life.com, muscle f o r life.com, and let me know what I could do better or just, uh, what your thoughts are about maybe what you’d like to see me do in the future.

I read everything myself. I’m always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode, and I hope to hear from you soon.