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In this podcast, I interview Anne-Marie, who did three months of Legion’s VIP one-on-one coaching program to get “unstuck” in her fitness journey, improve her body composition, and feel better and healthier at 45 than ever before. And the best part is she started my Thinner Leaner Stronger program in her 40s, so the lesson here is it’s never too late to get started. 

Anne-Marie had always been relatively fit, but before she found my work, she did a lot of running and didn’t know what to do in the weights section of the gym. Like many fitness folk who start without a plan, she wandered from machine to machine without much to show for it in terms of results.

Then she read Thinner Leaner Stronger and things started to click. She finally knew what to do in the weight room and enjoyed tracking her lifts and seeing the progress over time.

But like many other people in her shoes, there was a “missing piece” and she eventually got stuck in a training rut. It turns out that missing piece was nutrition and tracking her macros, which is why she decided to sign up or my VIP Coaching. Her coach taught her everything she needed to know and Anne-Marie immediately noticed the differences proper nutrition could make in her health and fitness. She made huge leaps in her body composition and even her sleep and mood have improved. 

Since then, Anne-Marie has gone on to start competing and she’s had a lot of success so far, which we’ll talk about in the interview. We also discuss her training history, how she planned workouts while caring for her young daughter, how proper training has changed her weight and body composition, her future competing plans, and more.

So if you’re looking for a jolt of inspiration and like motivational stories, definitely listen to this episode.


0:00 – Legion VIP One-on-One Coaching:

5:24 – Where were you with your fitness before you found me and my work? 

8:01 – What was your previous diet?

9:05 – Are you doing more strength training than before?

10:43 – How did you find me and my work?

17:32 – How has your weight changed? 

20:18 – Did you feel any intimidation going to the gym? 

21:50 – How long did it take for you to get comfortable at the gym? 

22:31 –  How did you make time to workout 3 times a week when you first started? 

30:03 – How was your diet and nutrition journey? 

32:05 – How did your body react to higher protein intake? 

39:24 –  What made you want to compete?

41:14 – How did you prepare for the competition? 

43:35 – How did the two shows go? 

46:59 – Have you learned anything interesting that you would like to share to other women that want to compete?

50:01 – How were you feeling going into the competition?

52:08 – What was it like after competing? 

57:49 – Where can people find you?

Mentioned on the show: 

Legion VIP One-on-One Coaching:

Thinner Leaner Stronger:

What did you think of this episode? Have anything else to share? Let me know in the comments below!


Mike: Hey, hey, and welcome to Muscle for Life. I am your host Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today to hear a success story. To hear how Anne-Marie changed not just her body, but her life, uh, at least to a meaningful degree in just a few months of v i p one-on-one coaching with my sports nutrition company.

Legion. We helped her get unstuck in her fitness journey. We helped her improve her body composition and feel better and healthier at 45 years old than ever before. And these are her words, not mine, you will hear in this interview. And the best part is she started with my thinner, leaner, stronger program in her forties, and then moved over to coaching to get.

Custom diet and training programs and to get the accountability and to get the support and so on. And so there’s a good lesson here and that is it really is never too late to get started or to get really good results. Now, as you’ll hear in this interview, Annemarie is like many women I’ve spoken with over the years.

Who did a lot of running, who just relied on a lot of cardio to not be overweight, but who had no idea what to do with strength training. And when she did try to do some strength training, she just kind of wandered from machine to machine and never really had that much to show for it in terms of results.

Then she read my book, thinner, leaner, stronger. Things started to make a lot more sense. She finally understood what to do in the weight room. She started tracking her lifts and her progress and started to see results. But like many other people in her shoes, there was just a missing piece and she got stuck in a rutt and it turned out that missing piece was nutrition was understanding.

Macros, understanding how to hit those macros, which of course can involve tracking, but doesn’t have to be tracking. Tracking is a useful exercise, but there are other ways to make sure that you are giving your body what it needs to recover from your training and to achieve your body composition goals.

To drop fat and gain muscle, for example, and that’s why Anne-Marie decided to sign up for my v I P coaching and with her coach, she learned. Exactly what she needed to know to make a breakthrough in her fitness. And since then, Anne-Marie has actually gone on to start competing and she has had quite a bit of success with that so far.

Before we wade into it, how would you like to know a little secret that will help you get into the best shape of your life? Here it is. The business model for my v I P coaching service sucks. Boom, mic drop. And what in the fiddly frack am I talking about? Well, while most coaching businesses try to keep their clients around for as long as possible.

I take a different approach. You see, my team and I, we don’t just help you build your best body ever. I mean, we do that. We figure out your calories and macros, and we create custom diet and training plans based on your goals and your circumstances. And we make adjustments depending on how your body responds, and we help you ingrain the right.

Eating and exercise habits so you can develop a healthy and a sustainable relationship with food and training and more. But then there’s the kicker because once you are thrilled with your results, we ask you to fire us seriously. You’ve heard the phrase give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Well, that summarizes how my one-on-one coaching service works, and that’s why it doesn’t make nearly as much coin. As it could, but I’m okay with that because my mission is not to just help you gain muscle and lose fat. It’s to give you the tools and to give you the know-how that you need to forge ahead in your fitness without me.

So dig this when you sign up for my coaching, we don’t just take you by the hand and walk you through the entire process of building a body you can be proud of. We also teach you the all important wise behind. The how’s the key principles and the key techniques you need to understand to become your own coach.

And the best part, it only takes 90 days. So instead of going it alone this year, why not try something different? Head over to Muscle for Life. Do show slash vip. That is muscle. F o r. Life Show slash VIP and schedule your free consultation. Call now and let’s see if my one-on-one coaching service is right for you.

Ann-Marie, thanks for taking the time to do this.

Anna Marie: Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here.

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s, um, it’s been a day actually since I’ve done one of these interviews. Uh, I did another one yesterday. So it’s, it’s fun to, to, to speak with people, men and women, different ages and circumstances, and hear their stories.

And so that’s what we’re gonna be talking about today is your story. And, um, normally how I, how I start these discussions is if. If you can kind of just give us maybe a kind of before and after snapshot, just for people listening before you found me and my work. Where were you at with your fitness? And for different people, that means different things.

Sometimes it’s body composition, sometimes it’s, um, They, they just weren’t enjoying the, the, how they were having to eat or train or whatever. Um, and then where you’re at now, just for, for the sake of contrast, and then let’s rewind to where you were at before and hear how things were going. I.

Anna Marie: Okay. So I guess, I mean, I considered myself a pretty fit person most of my life.

I, I joined the military. Um, I was a little bit older. I didn’t join right out of high school, but something that I was always interested in, I had always done some kind of, Working out, be it running mostly, um, probably in the last decade, probably more running. Um, and not a lot of knowledge or attention to my diet or nutrition.

So I thought I. You know, had a good idea about what eating healthy was. Um, I also work in healthcare, so I’m pretty, you know, I consider myself an educated person in that regard. But, um, I learned, I’ve learned a lot in the last few years, uh, along the way. Um, just different kind of training and different kind of eating, and I think that’s what really, um, probably has helped me turn the corner to where I am now.

It’s funny. Can I jump in? I’ll just jump in. Yeah, yeah. There’s a section in your book where you talk about, um, in T L Ss I’m referring to that you’re talking about people that kind of, you know, they go to the gym and they kind of listlessly, you know, use a treadmill or an elliptical and then they kind of wander around the gym and kind of, you know, play with some machines maybe and, and they never get anywhere. And that was me.

Mike: That was, I mean, it’s better than, it’s better than sitting on the couch, but

Anna Marie: Sure. It’s, sure it’s, you know, I mean, I like running outside. I hate running on a treadmill. Um, but when the weather’s, you know, horrible, then I, you know, I will go to the gym and do that. But, so that’s why I’d prefer kind of an elliptical, but I didn’t really know what I was doing in the gym.

Honestly, so, um, you know, I kind of knew what some of the machines were and things, but I didn’t really have any focus or any plan. I maintained, um, myself fairly well, but I didn’t, you know, certainly didn’t, um, make any gains, so to speak.

Mike: And so previously you were doing a fair amount of running and it sounds like on the diet side of things, were you just trying not to eat too much food?

Was that kind of the idea?

Anna Marie: Um, I didn’t do too much dieting per se, like where I’d calorie restrict or anything.

Mike: Yeah, yeah. No, I don’t, I just mean like a regimen, you know? Were you, yeah, just, just trying not to gain a bunch of weight and just like stay, stay, stay healthy, stay fit. Yeah.

Anna Marie: Yeah. I would eat, you know, just.

Whatever I thought was healthy, you know, I mean, I like a wide variety of foods, so I don’t have any trouble there. I eat lots of vegetables and I like fish and, you know, we’d grill a lot or whatever and, um, those kind of things, but I have no problem going out and, you know, downing a, a burger and fries either, so is fine.

Yeah, yeah, it’s fine. Um, I didn’t make a habit of that. I guess that’s never been something that I, that I habitually do. I, I enjoy cooking, um, but I certainly didn’t have any idea of my, my calorie intake, and I had no idea how to, you know, calculate macros or I didn’t care about that sort of thing.

Mike: And so then, fast forward to now, I’m guessing that you’re doing a lot more strength training now than.

Well than you were before, which it sounds like you’re doing basically none. Yes. And then, and then that has allowed you to, I’m, I’m guessing, change your body composition. Uh, positively.

Anna Marie: Right. Yes. I had no idea. Um, and I really enjoy weight training and I, I didn’t realize that I’d done, you know, I dabbled with a few things here and there along the way.

You know, I had a CrossFit gym or a, you know, just kind of doing different things in the gym with machines. Um, and I guess that was my first introduction. It wasn’t an official CrossFit gym, but they did a lot of, um, similar type exercises. And so I learned how to. It, um, I guess lift some weights. Um, prior to that with more bar work or barbell work that I had never really, really done before, then I took a break from that.

I had a, I had a life change and I moved. Um, and so I didn’t do that anymore and I went and I just ran. That was my kind of my stress reliever too. I enjoyed running, I ran, you know, some half marathons and it was a pretty avid runner. Um, but I didn’t have a lot of muscle tone. I had lost a lot of weight, um, through that transition.

Um, I was never really overweight, but I ended up losing weight during that stressful time and, um, didn’t have any muscle to go along with it. So I was quite, um, quite thin in, probably not in great shape, even though I was small, if that makes sense.

Mike: Yeah, yeah. And how did you find me and my work?

Anna Marie: Interesting. So I, um, so I still serve in the military. I’m in the National Guard. And so that was another, that’s another big motivating factor for me to keep in shape. ’cause I have to, you know, be physically fit for that. And so I would, you know, traditionally our, our physical fitness test consists of, um, two minutes of.

Pushups, two minutes of sit-ups and a two mile run, um, for time. And so, you know, those were kind of the things that I focused on, hence the running. And then, you know, I could knock out some pushups, I could knock out some sit-ups and no problem. And I’d done it so many years and I was really good at it.

And, you know, I’d really excel at the test. And, and so that was kind of a, a point of pride for me. It’s like, I, I can do this test and I’ve done it for a lot of years. And so I, I really work on those kind of things. Um, But in the last couple years, the army changed and they’re not doing that test anymore.

Um, they’re doing a new physical fitness test and it incorporates a lot more strength training. There’s new events including a hex bar deadlift, um, and some like, uh, what they call a knee up, which is kinda where you to pull yourself up on a bar. Um, some tea pushups, it’s still a two mile run, and, and where you have to drag a sled, a 90 pound or 180 pound.

Sled, it’s on a floor, um, and carry 40 pound kettlebells. And anyway, it’s, it’s a lot more intense. And so a lot of people were worried about it and they’re like, well, how am I gonna do this? You know? And so they had a lot of training come out about it in, in my unit and. I don’t know. I wish I knew who had it on their PowerPoint, but someone was giving a training about it and things that you could do at home.

And then they had kind of, at the end they had a list of resources and your book was on there. And so, so I read the book. I was like, oh, I’m getting that book. And so I read the book and I started the program and. I mean, I still have, I still have all my notebooks. I have, I got my notebooks, I’ve got all these little books.

’cause I loved it and it was just, so, it was like

Mike: Are those are your training logs? Yeah, those are the training. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Anna Marie: I kept a log, you know, so I’d get a little notebook and I’d write down, you know, what I’d have to do each day. And, you know, of course there’s a little growing pains, right? ’cause I don’t know where, where I am, um, as far as weights are concerned.

And so you just start low and then you figure out where yeah, you know where you are and, and how to, how to get, get there. Um, so it was kind of slow and you know, my daughter was younger at that time and you know, I share custody, so I had to figure out times when I could go to the gym and do this. So I started out with a three day a week plan and, um, but it was nice just to have a plan and it just gave me some real focus and real direction every day.

I went in there, I knew exactly what I was doing. There’s no more aimlessly wandering around wondering what machine I should use or what I should do. Um, it’s, I’m going to do this today and or tomorrow, and I write it down out the night before. And then

Mike: it also helps that you don’t have to ask for advice because you can get a lot of good advice, but you can also get a lot of bad advice.

I mean, I see that firsthand. Just the other day, uh, my wife came to the gym and she’s not really into to weightlifting. She likes to ride horses and do other things. But for the horse riding, uh, the stronger you are the better it is for, for riding horses. It’s a lot more physical than it looks. I mean, somebody who’s good at it, I’m not into it, but she tells me that somebody who’s good, it looks like they’re doing nothing.

But there’s a lot going on. It’s a lot of isometric tension. And so she came and, um, And, and I got there like 15 minutes after she did. And so she was working with another girl there at the gym. And then one of the trainers was, uh, just trying to help. And, but I already was like trying to explain, you know, the, so one girl was saying, well, she doesn’t, she doesn’t like to, uh, train close to muscular failure because she doesn’t want to get bulky.

Right. And then my wife hears that and I’m like, That’s not true. That that’s not how it works. Let, let me explain the bulky thing, right? And then I try to explain it, but then my wife’s inclined to listen to me, but the other, the other two women are not, right? And so then they’re still saying, well, yeah, but then the trainer’s like, well, yeah, we should progress with the overload.

And then the other. And they went, well, I don’t wanna get bulky though, so, and I was just like, all right, well, um, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go do my workout. And the good news is, the good news is, and particularly for my wife, because she’s not really into weightlifting, it’s like, look, in the beginning you can do kind of anything and you’re gonna make progress.

So you don’t have to know all that much. And, and you can make mistakes. But again, your body’s so responsive in the beginning, you’re gonna make progress. Uh, but by knowing what you’re doing, you avoid situations like that. I.

Anna Marie: Yeah. And it’s funny, you know, I mean, it’s intimidating at first to go in there if you’ve never, you know, kind of been, of course, yeah.

Or you, you know, you don’t know how to set up the weights or you’re not sure what weights to use or how much, and you know, all of it is just, can be overwhelming. I. Don’t tend to get too caught up in all of that, but I understand how, how that is for, for people. And so, you know, I, I don’t interfere with people, but if they, you know, ask me or if they kind of, you know, catch your eye or something, or they’re looking a little questionable, then sure.

But, um, I had a guy one time tell me, um, I think he saw me kind of like switching out the weights and stuff. And I think it was on, I was on the hex bar, and so I needed a lower weight. But the gym, you know, the, the lower weights are smaller, right? And so then the height wasn’t right. And so he was like, you know, there’s these over here that are.

The big 15 pound.

Mike: Yeah, but they’re skinnier. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anna Marie: They’re lighter weights, you know? And so I was like, oh, great. You know, and that was very helpful.

Mike: Yeah. Yes, that’s, that’s helpful advice. That’s great. Thank you.

Anna Marie: I did not know that. And so, you know, sometimes it, you know, sometimes it’s good for people to say something, but Yeah.

Um, I, I enjoy going to the gym, I think, and it really has changed my body composition in a good way. I mean, I, you know, I feel healthier, my energy’s better, I sleep better. Um, I’m stronger and I.

Mike: How, how has your, how has your weight changed? I know a lot of women are surprised when they’ve come through a bit of a transformation, even if it’s a, I mean, it doesn’t have to be a dramatic one even because I know many women, um, that I’ve spoken with over the years, they’ll come into something like this with an idea of what their ideal weight is, usually based on some weight in the.

That, that they were at in the past when they liked how they looked or felt, and, and they’re often, um, surprised to see their weight. It’s often higher than they anticipated. When they get to a point where they’re like, shit, I look really good and I weigh like 10 pounds more than I thought I would want to weigh.

Anna Marie: It’s hard to gauge how much it’s fluctuated, and I guess I don’t value that as much as how my clothes are fitting or Of course, of course. Yeah. Or how I feel. But I would say that, and I’m small framed, um, you know, and I’m short, so, you know, I don’t carry a lot of weight and when I carry a lot of weight, it tends to be more fat.

Um, but I will say that my weight is probably similar now. To what it was several years ago when I was in my high stress, um, you know, unhealthy weight loss stage. Yep. But I have a lot more mass like lean mass. Yep. Than I did then. Um, and so, you know, to me that’s the difference. I’m not all. You know, flabby and saggy and you know, I mean, I was small, but I didn’t have any, um, you know, I didn’t have any mass or any kind of strength.

Yeah. I feel I did. I mean, I,

Mike: yeah, but it was, but that, that, that’s, that’s common that I hear from women who, um, Maybe they would say that they felt kind of skinny fat when they started. Um, and, and then now they have, uh, an outstanding body composition and, um, they look totally different. Their clothes fit totally different.

But like you just said, their weight, when it’s all said and done, hadn’t, didn’t really change much. They, they kind of traded the, the weight of the fat. For the weight of the muscle. Mm-hmm. And that totally transformed how they look. But on the scale, looked, eh, looks the same.

Anna Marie: Right. Right. Yeah. Um, my weight has, I mean, it’s probably fluctuated by 20 pounds, you know, over, over the years, over the many years.

But I, you know, I weigh a lot less now than I did in my thirties. You know, I’m 45 now. Um, but I’m a lot healthier and in better shape now than I’ve ever been in my life.

Mike: That’s awesome. And, uh, did you deal with any kind of intimidation, gym intimidation in the beginning or did you feel like you knew enough that you felt pretty confident?

Anna Marie: I had some basic knowledge, but yeah, there was a little rough at first that, like I mentioned earlier, kind of that going in and you know, oh gosh, you know, you feel out of place or, um, I, it’s, it’s harder for me to gauge now ’cause I’m like, well, everyone belongs there. I don’t care what your level is. If you’ve showed up good for good on you, and, but when you’re the one in that position, you don’t feel that way.

You’re like, uh, you know, or when I don’t belong here, um, or I don’t fit, or I don’t know what I’m doing. Or, you know, it’s, you try, you know, can have a, that there is a lot of that and it’s mostly kind of your own negative self-talk. Honestly. Yeah. Uh, because if someone else is, you know, looking at you and making a judgment, that’s their problem.

I mean, that’s how I look at it now. But of course, you know, you put that on yourself. Um, and, and that’s not a fun place to be. I’m a pretty determined person and, and pretty stubborn. And if I, and if I decided that I was gonna do something, then I was gonna do it. And I, you know, it didn’t really matter to me too much about that.

Um, You know, you have to turn off the noise sometimes and kind of get through that. And I got through it and now I, you know, I’m comfortable and I know what I’m doing and it takes time. It just, that just takes time. So I would encourage, you know, people I.

Mike: How long until you felt comfortable?

Anna Marie: Um, well probably not too long.

Probably in that first, you know, couple of months it was like, okay, you know, I got this. And then, you know, maybe you throw a new exercise in there. But then it’s like, okay, even if it’s a new exercise, I know that I’ve done new things before, so now it’s just a matter of manipulating the weights and seeing where I need to be, um, and working from there, but actually going, and then I like my gym because, You know, it ends up being familiar faces and you know, you kind of have your usuals after a while and you kinda get to know people.

But, um, everyone’s situation’s different. So

Mike: you mentioned that you started three days per week, and how was that? Because when you started, were you still going through this stressful period? I think you said you were.

Anna Marie: Um, no, that after. Um, yeah, that was, that was a little bit after that. So I, um, yeah, that worked really well for me just because of my schedule.

Um, you know, I work full time and I had, you know, I had a young daughter at home and I couldn’t just go, you know, I couldn’t leave her. Um,

Mike: how did you make that work? I, I know a lot of people ask me, you know, they’ll say like, I, I wanna make it work, but you know, my circumstances don’t make it easy. Per se.

Anna Marie: Right, right. For sure. Everyone’s circumstances are different and it, it’s not always easy. Um, but I, you have to prioritize what is, you know, what you’re gonna make important. I, you know, like I mentioned, I share custody and so I would, I would work around the times that my daughter was with her dad. And so, um, if there was a time of week, and whether that was in the morning or whether that, because sometimes it would be like, well, I have to go this morning.

’cause this afternoon I’m gonna have my daughter. So I’m up at four 30 and I’m hitting the gym because that, you know, that’s what I wanna do. I. And because tonight I’m gonna have her and then I can’t go. Yeah. And then maybe the next night her dad will have her in the evening. Then I have to go in the evening and I don’t love working out in the evening.

’cause my energy’s done. I’m zapped by the end of the day. I’m a morning person. Yeah. But you know, that’s what, that’s my window of opportunity. That’s when I’m going. And so, you know, I had to just kind of fit it in, you know, piecemeal it. And maybe it was like one day I could go, you know, one week I could go two days in a row and then I might miss two days and then I could go again or.

Or whatever. And then maybe at home I would do, you know, something with, I have a couple of dumbbells at home or a band, or just do body work, you know, in between, in the garage or in, you know, at home. So

Mike: and, um, did you also, it sound, it sounds like you had maybe a plan going into the week, or these are the days that I hope to be able to, but then you had to change or were you able to generally stick to the plan?

The reason I ask that is, um, I know that some people, I. They, and, and I’m one of these people really, I like to have a plan and I like to do exactly what I want to do exactly when I want to do it. And if I can’t do that, I’m better with this now. But it still bothers me. Like, I don’t like when people or things stop me from doing what I want to do.

And, um, I know that some people that can be kind of demotivating though, you know, where they wanted to get in there and do their workout, but they couldn’t, and then they wanted to maybe even the next day, then they couldn’t. And now they feel like, Uh, screw it. This week is a mess. I’ll just, yeah, I’ll just get back to it next week.

Anna Marie: Right. Yeah. And I’m sure that happened. Um, you know, I can’t think of that off, you know, off the cuff, but I’m sure I had weeks like that. Um, because that’s just, life happens sometimes and you know, like as much as you wanna make a part and it’s frustrating. It sure is. I’m just like that as well. It’s like, well, I planned to do this and now my plans are messed up and you know, and I don’t like that.

I wanna stick to my plan, but, you know, sometimes things happen and kids get sick or. Things happen with your job or she couldn’t go to her dad’s ’cause he was outta town that week or whatever. And then I have to adjust. Um, so I, I think, you know, at the end of the day, it’s more about being consistent than trying to be perfect.

Mm-hmm. Um, There’s always gonna be,

Mike: and like you said, it sounds like you found something that you could do. All right, fine. If you couldn’t get into the gym and do what you normally like to do, you did body work at home or um, you did something to maintain that habit, is what it sounds like.

Anna Marie: Right? Right.

Because again, I mean, okay, I didn’t get to do this particular workout, but I had, you know, I have, see my little notebooks here, I have like, I made up little HIIT workouts and so I had little backups in the back of my notebook. Okay, well I’m, then, I’m gonna do these because I have, you know, the things I’m able to do at home.

So I’ll do the sit workout and I’d have them programmed to be like 30 minutes or whatever, however many rounds I wanted to do. Um, so having a little bit of a backup plan. Yeah. Things go awry.

Mike: Yeah. And, and you know, something that, um, that, that some people don’t realize, maybe even some people listening is even if you just do body weight training, even if you’re fit, even, let’s say you’re a fit guy, right?

So like pushups, you know, you might do sets of 60, 70 pushups. It doesn’t, um, It, it, it doesn’t seem like it’s, it’s all that effective compared to getting in the gym and bench pressing 300 pounds. Right. Um, but, but doing, doing just body weight stuff, and especially if you can add some bands, is, uh, you still can get a decent training stimulus out of it.

And certainly for maintaining muscle and strength, now we’d have to basically sit around and do nothing for a couple of weeks before we really start to lose muscle tissue. But even for. Just maintaining performance, maintaining the habit. You know, a a week gets messed up, you do some body weight stuff at home, and you get back into the gym the next week.

Uh, chances are you’re gonna be able to pick up right where you left off because you did that, that body weight stuff at home. Um, and so it’s not a. It’s not a wash. And, and I think you know that, but I, I’ve had people ask me about this over the years where they feel kind of bummed out because they felt like their home workout was regression.

It was like worse than zero. You know what I mean? And that’s not the case.

Anna Marie: No, it’s not the case. And I’ve had times too where maybe I’ve taken a couple of weeks off or things didn’t work out where I had, you know, now there’s this. Significant, you know, obstacle. And now time went by and now I really do feel like that.

And like, oh gosh, because breaking a habit, getting, you know, starting the habit and then, you know, breaking and then trying to start it again is difficult. We’ve all, you know, That’s, that’s hard. And, and when that happens, you know, to get back into it, it’s like, ugh. And then, and then you do feel like you’re, you’ve regressed and you know, maybe I ha and I’m sure I had at some points, you know, but it’s like, it doesn’t matter.

This is where I’m starting again. I’m starting again from this point and I’m going again. And you know, then you, then I tend to progress rapidly, right? So I’m not just starting from where I was at the very beginning. I might. You know, taking a step back. Um, but I’m able to catch up and, and so just kind of, you know, maybe remembering that, that it’s not all, you know, for naught.

You’re not all starting over and it’s always worth it. Just to start again, just to, just to keep going.

Mike: Totally. Hey there. If you are hearing this, you are still listening, which is awesome. Thank you. And if you are enjoying this podcast, or if you just like my podcast in general and you are getting at least something out of it, would you mind sharing it with a friend or a loved one or a not so loved one even who might want to learn something new?

Word of mouth helps really bigly. In growing the show. So if you think of someone who might like this episode or another one, please do tell them about it. How was the diet and nutrition side of things? So you went from, it sound like you’re eating pretty well, you’re eating a lot, a fair amount of nutritious foods, but you didn’t understand energy balance.

You probably weren’t eating enough protein if you were like most women, maybe you were, but most women weren’t.

Anna Marie: Probably not. Yeah. Um, because I didn’t really pay attention to that. Um, so I did do a coaching program and, and so that was. That was really helpful. Um, especially in regards to the nutrition piece.

Um, and also because I kind of feel like I, I hit a wall at some point. I’ve been doing it for, Hmm. I’ve been following the program for maybe a year and a half ish at maybe a little bit longer. I’m going two years at that point and felt like I kind of, I wasn’t really sure how I was still making gains. I kind of felt like I was at a standstill.

Um, So I did the program and um, kind of. Then looking at the diet and tracking and figuring out what I need to eat. And that’s when I really, and when I really realized that I made big changes. Hmm. So it was that 12 weeks and I, again, I, you know, I went from, you know, I was in pretty good shape, but I. I just made a huge leap.

Mike: Um, and, and that was, and, and you attribute most of that to what specifically in with your, with your nutrition or with your diet, do you think? I think

Anna Marie: tracking for one thing. Yeah. Um, knowing what I was eating, um, paying attention to what I was eating and getting those macros, you know, kind of a little bit more dialed in anyway.

Making sure I was getting enough protein, for example. And

Mike: that unfortunately it’s a lot easier to eat too much fat than it is to eat enough protein.

Anna Marie: Right.

Mike: Unfortunately.

Anna Marie: For sure. That’s for sure. So yeah, I think, you know, kind of recognizing that and paying attention to my portions and, and, um, getting more protein.

And I still,

Mike: did you notice your, your body responding to that, uh, increased protein intake fairly quickly? I know I’ve heard a lot of women that have told me that pretty quickly they start noticing more muscle definition, more strength.

Anna Marie: Yeah. So I really leaned up quite a bit and then, and then, so I was like, saw more.

More muscle definition. Um, and so that was really motivating. That was really good. Um, and, you know, it wasn’t, um, I didn’t feel like deprived or like, you know, this is too hard or unmanageable. I felt like it was pretty manageable. I was pretty focused and I think, you know, and I was kind of more on a cut, um, you know, doing more of a cut, trying to lose some fat.

But I think, you know, then once you get to that maintenance phase, that’s, that’s pretty manageable. That’s always, you know, it’s not, you know, you don’t feel deprived and you then you just keep going. But even during that sort of cutting phase, I was making pretty good gains in where I was lifting. And so I think just having those, you know, paying attention to the.

To the macros and the protein intake and knowing that, wow, I, you know, I did all 10, all three sets of 10 at this weight last week, so I can, I’m gonna go up this week. Yeah. And to be able to do it, you know, just incremental weights. And then see that progress, just that in, in incremental progress. Um, that’s really motivating.

That’s what I love about it, um, too, is kind of when I, when I kept my notebooks and kind of looking back through my old pages, oh, I did this one three weeks ago. Oh my gosh, look what I’m looking now. Right. And it’s fun. Yeah.

Mike: Yeah. And, and, and you need that. Uh, I, I think, or at least most people do. I do.

Especially as you get stronger and as. As the, the progress, at least in the mirror becomes less odd, obvious. ’cause it slows down. And, um, and in the beginning your body’s changing so quickly if you’re doing things mostly right that you, you don’t need to look into your books to know like you, you know, that.

You know, just two months ago you couldn’t even bench bench press the bar. And now you have the bar in weights, like that’s pretty obvious. Right, right, right. But as you get stronger and, and things slow down, it helps a lot to, to track like, like you’re doing. And that’s, that’s, uh, one of those kind of common mistakes that that many people.

Make is not tracking and then they don’t know exactly what to do. They don’t know where things are going, and then that makes it less fun. And then unfortunately, that kind of turns into like a negative feedback loop because if you’re in the gym not really having fun, I. That’s not conducive to effective training.

Uh, ’cause you start to just go through the motions and then maybe you start ending sets earlier really than, you know, you start p you see, and we’ve all made this mistake where you, you start ending sets when it is kind of just getting hard as opposed to like pushing. Yeah, really pushing close. You don’t have to go to failure, but really pushing and, and, and being willing to, to, to go beyond just mere discomfort.

Right. And, um, so, so tracking and, and something, um, if you’re not already doing it, uh, I mentioned this in, in the, the sequel to Bigger, leaner Stronger, which I, I do want to turn that into a book for women, um, because, uh, uh, quite a bit of it. Would, would be different, especially the programming. But, um, if, if you’re not, and for people listening, this is a useful tip.

If you’re an experienced weightlifter and you’re not tracking, I like reps in reserve. Something that indicates how hard each set is. And so reps in reserve is the number of good reps you still have in the tank. So when you’re at the end, when you’re getting toward the end of a set and you’re asking yourself, how many more reps could I do before I fail?

Right. And, um, the sweet spot for, for compound exercises is I like at least, so I do four sets of all exercises right now. So if I’m squatting, I like to feel like I have one, maybe two good reps left. I. At the end of my fourth set. So it’s pretty hard. Like, you know, my final rep is not a grinder because when you get to a real grinder, that’s usually a zero good reps left.

Like you’re, you’re, you’re not gonna get the next rep if you go for it. But the one rep before the grinder is kind of a half grinder, right? And so, um, That’s an appropriate intensity for an exercise like that. And if you’re doing a biceps curl and you want to go right up to the grinder, or you want your first set to be, you know, maybe one good rep left, I think that’s fine as well.

The problem with that, with a squat is if you’re first set of four is really hard and your, and your final rep is like a grinder, a half grinder. Unfortunately, by set four, you’re probably gonna have to take weight off the bar. You’re probably gonna be too gassed, right? Um, so if you’re not tracking your reps in reserve, you might l like that.

You might like, including that because what you’ll see is how progress progresses is. First what you’ll see is that your reps in reserve with a given weight goes up. So what you’ll see is like, oh, two weeks ago I had a hundred pounds on this exercise and I did 10, and I had. Here’s what I, what I wrote that I, I feel, I feel like I had two good reps left at that point.

Now I just did that same exercise, a hundred pounds, and I had three good reps left. That actually is progress. You’re not seeing it yet in the weight, but of course then that eventually turns into, because maybe. Maybe your three sets or four sets. Let’s say, let’s say it’s three and you got 10, 9, 8, right?

And then eventually that turns into 10. Nine. Nine and then maybe ten, ten nine. It’s not always perfect and mathematical like that, of course. But where you’ll see that progress first is actually in your reps in reserve, uh, because it indicates that you’re a little bit stronger, that you took that weight, you did your 10, and instead of two more, you now can get three more.

So. Um, a tip that, uh, I’ve, I’ve found useful.

Anna Marie: That is useful. And I, you know, I, now I gauge like, well, how much effort did I really put into that workout? Was it, you know? Yeah. I mean, I always put in effort, but did I think, you know, for all the effort that I put in, was it hard? Was it really hard? Was it sort of moderate?

Was I given a, my, I mean, not every workout’s the same, right? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Energy and there’s a million factors in how you slept and what’s going on and other, other things. But, um, it is, that’s a good, you know,

Mike: It’s just, it’s the same idea. It’s just more granular. Um, right. Which, which then also again, it, it, it helps in even just kind of getting into the, the head space of what you want to do in this workout where, you know that, um, You’re, let’s say, gonna be using the same weight and you’re gonna go for those 10 reps in that first set.

But, uh, you know that the last time you did it, you had two good reps left. And so let’s see, let’s see how it feels. Can this one be a three? Because again, that’s an indication of a little bit of progress.

Anna Marie: Progress is good.

Mike: How did you, how did you find your way to competing?

Anna Marie: Yeah. So, um, no. How did I do that?

I was, uh,

Mike: what, what, what drew you? What, what made you wanna do it?

Anna Marie: I, I thought about it for a long time. I was like, man, what, what if, what would happen if I, like, how do you do that? How do you get into that? How do you, I mean, I didn’t know anything about it. I totally knew, right? I had no idea. I just thought, I started reading about it and thought, well, you know, what would that be like to compete?

What do you have to do? What does it, you know, what does it take? Um, you know, because I had already seen my body composition changing, so then I was really interested to see what else I could do. All right. I, I’m getting older, but what can I do with my body? Like what, what can it do? How can I push it to its limit?

Um, and see, see what I can do? And so, and the more I read about it, the more that interested me. And so I kind of, Um, I thought about it for a long while, but I didn’t really talk about it. And then one day I just started talking about it to some friends. I was like, you know, I really wanna do this. And they’re like, you should.

You totally should. You are so strong. And I’m like, really? Should I? And so, Anyway, I found myself a, a local coach and they just happened to be putting on a sh a, a show, first time inaugural show in, in our town. And so they’re like, yeah, why don’t you, why don’t you train and, you know, train for this? And, you know, kind of the timing was good ’cause it had, was like three months away and they’ll give you, you know, time to prepare and.

And so they, you know, I, I did it. I said, okay, I’ll, I’m on board. Let’s see what I can do. Um, I feel like I’m strong, but I feel like I could, you know, be leaner. I don’t know what I need to do. Um, so it was a, a long learning process for sure, and I’m still learning, still learning a lot about it. Um, but, so that was a little,

Mike: and so, so take us through it.

How did it go? So it sounds like if it was a three month prep, you started in pretty good shape. Like you were already fairly lean, I’m guessing.

Anna Marie: I was. Pretty, I mean, I don’t know what my body fat percentage was, but it was probably in the neighborhood of 20. Yeah. To 22% probably.

Mike: Yeah. Which is, which is pretty lean.

I mean, that, that’s, uh, that’s, that’s, that’s, you know, ath, that’s very athletic for, for women.

Anna Marie: So I, you know, I was probably 20, my God, I can’t remember now. Probably more than that, maybe 23 or 24. But at, at any rate, um, yeah, I was in good shape and I had been following the program and I had worked my way up to, you know, four or five days a week and, you know, I’d done the coaching program the year before.

And so I had, you know, was minding my diet a little bit more and I had gotten leaner and so I had been lifting weights and weight training for, you know, now it’s been over two years, um, three years almost. And so, This was like the next level for me. And so my co-chair kind of told her the things that I had been doing.

And so we worked a lot of, um, you know, I have a lot of those basic, you know, kind of the standard ones in there, right? My, you know, squat and deadlift and bench press and this kinda things. Um, but then through, you know, threw in a lot of other things on there from areas that I needed to work on. And then the main thing with that was, Obviously diet, um, and the nutrition piece.

’cause that got a lot more intense as time went on. Um, so that, you know, that gets a lot more strict ’cause I’m really trying to, to cut my body fat. Um, and then there’s lots to learn about, you know, the stage presence and posing and, you know, the, what you wear and how the judging goes and, you know, so I, it was a huge learning experience.

Experience. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. Um, we had, you know, they had a lot of locals there and, and a lot of other local athletes. Um, not a lot in figure, I do figure. And so that’s a little bit more, um, more muscular than like the bikini competitors, which is a really popular. Popular category.

And then I decided to do a, a show with a bigger organization, uh, O C B, um, which is a natural bodybuilding organization. And I did my first show in Las Vegas last year. I. And I have another show with them coming up at the end of this month. So,

Mike: and, and how, how did the shows, the two shows go?

Anna Marie: Yeah, so, um, it was really fun.

The one locally here, it was, you know, there’s so much that goes into it. So that was a really a great stepping stone for me to, to then compete within a national organization, um, to, you know, kind of know all the steps that go with that. And, you know, doing all of the prep. And then how you do do your hair and your makeup and your tanning and your this and your that.

Anyway, so it was a great, you know, way for me to kind of get acclimated to how all of that works. And then one month later I went into the show in Las Vegas and so I was kind of like, okay, I’ve done this before. And, uh, that one had a great turnout. I think there were, um, you know, there were. I did three categories in that particular show.

Um, I did a, a novice, ’cause it was my first, um, show, um, an open category and a master’s, which was over 40. And, um, I won ma first place in Masters. Wow. And third, yeah. And third in, um, in novice and fourth and open. And that was the biggest category. Um, so that was really fun. Yeah, it’s really fun. And it was just amazing to see, like, I can’t believe that’s me.

I can’t believe I did that like before. I was like, how do these women do this? How do you know? I mean, surely I can do it ’cause women are doing it. Like, how, but how do you do it? You know? So trying to figure out what do I need to do to, you know, to get there and, and then working on, you know, doing the steps you need to get there and then, well now here I am.

And so that’s, um, it’s really fun. It’s this kinda surreal sometimes is like, wow, this really is truly, um, you can, you can do it. And I mean you can really, um, start weightlifting. It’s never too late, right? It’s never like, oh, I’m in such bad shape, or, oh, I don’t have time. Or, oh, I, you know, I’ve got this in my life or that, and I know everyone has, you know, legit stuff going on, um, in their lives.

But I, I mean, for your long-term health, I. And that’s what I was talking with someone about the coaching program for long-term health. I want to be around for a while and I wanna be healthy and I wanna feel good. I wanna have lots of energy. I wanna see my daughter grow up. I maybe I’ll have grandkids one day.

I mean, you know, I just wanna, I wanna keep my energy. Um, and, and, and this is the best way to do it. ’cause I think, you know, when you’re outta shape, you don’t have a lot of energy. At least I didn’t, you know, I, if you’re not minding what you’re eating,

Mike: I mean, yeah, nobody does. I mean, when you, when your body doesn’t feel good, you don’t feel good.

You just can’t get away from it.

Anna Marie: You just don’t, you know? I mean, now, I mean, I sleep so good. I wake up, I feel great when I wake up, you know, I ha I feel, I just feel good and I mean, with my mood too. Just everything, you know, just, and it just like spills over to everything in your life that is just, you know, kind of positive and, and gives you strength and kind of fills your cup.

So, you know, for me it’s. Been, it’s been such a positive, um, addition and I, gosh, like the mornings that, like, again, when back to our routines, like, this is my plan for the week, but if I can’t get into the gym that day, it’s like, ah, it just, like, it doesn’t set me up for like the, you know, like a good, the good way to start my day.

And it doesn’t always happen. But, um, you know, I try and it’s definitely a priority. So,

Mike: Do you have any interesting kind of lessons that you learned, um, with your, with your two shows that you’ve done that you would share with women who are thinking about doing it or maybe just getting into it for the first time?

Anna Marie: Yeah, I’d say, um, I think just for me it was a, a pro a learning process of, you know, Reading up about it, figuring out, you know, kind of what your own strengths are, um, because that will kind of maybe determine what different category you wanna focus in. Um, you know, figure was the right fit for me. Um, Just my, the way my body’s built and the way that, and the kind of person that I am, and I’m more of an introvert and like bikini competitors are a little bit more outgoing maybe, and, you know, a little bit more playful on stage and things like that.

And that’s not really, that was maybe a little bit, a little bit much for me personally. Um, which I think they’re great, but I, you know, it just kind of whatever fits your personality too. Um,

Mike: You have to like sticking your butt out. Yeah. In front. A lot. In front of a lot of people with your like spread. If you don’t like doing that, you might not like bikini,

Anna Marie: you might not like it.

Yeah. So, yeah, the first thought for me, so, um, I think the most helpful thing was to have somebody, you know that’s been through it to help you out too. I mean, it’s just, there’s so much that, you know, having a good coach or mentor somebody, um, friend or somebody

Mike: specifically for that. Yeah, yeah,

Anna Marie: yeah.

Because my coach, you know, she’s a competitor. She was a, you know, uh, She’d been through it, you know, and, and one, and been very successful. She’s a very successful, um, competitor. She’s a bikini competitor, and, and so, Having somebody to guide you through the process, I think is, is really important once you decide to do it.

And then kind of knowing and having a realistic, you know, expectation of the time commitment, fitting in, working out, you know, is one thing, but fitting in. Prepping for a show is, you know, another thing. And so then, you know, now I spend a significant amount of time, you know, not just working out. It gets more intense as it gets closer to the show and I gotta up my cardio and, but it’s a, you know, the, the nutrition piece too and, and just all of it.

So, um, you know, I spent a lot of time, what am I going to eat, you know, Making sure I’m eating the right things, food

Mike: weighing everything. Then you really do have to weigh everything. ’cause you just, yeah. Even you, if you’re not, if you’re toward the end and you’re over accidentally overeating by just a hundred calories per day, unfortunately mm-hmm.

That can, that can make a difference.

Anna Marie: Right? Yep. So I weigh everything. You have to be exact in your amounts. That’s pretty disciplined what you, what you have to do, especially as it gets closer.

Mike: How did you feel? Uh, like so you’re ready to step on stage? Were, did, were you, uh, feeling pretty run down or were you feeling okay?

Anna Marie: You know, um, there are times in prep that I start feeling run down really close. ’cause now I’m like two weeks out almost. Okay. So there are moments now that I told my coaches she let me have a meal yesterday because I was, I got nothing. I’m like a wilting flour over here. I’m always cold and. Hungry and thirsty and drink so much water.

That’s the other thing. Water. You should drink so much water, just drinking water all the time. But I, you know, ’cause you do peak week, so. Right. You know, the week before competition is what they call peak week. And that’s where your, you know, your diet is very exact. Like, you know, everything is like calculated to, you know, get rid of the extra water, weight and all this, tweak everything right before you step on stage.

And so, but I, what I found was for me, What my coach and I found was that I needed a two day reload, um, in order to kind of, kind of regain that. ’cause I was just so small and I just, I was so depleted. And so, you know, we kind of learned that over the, over the last couple shows. So, um, and we did a mock peak week and kind of figured that out and then, And then we did another one, and then I did a third one.

So I do a two day, um, reload. So, and then, you know, you, you do your band, you know, exercises right before you go on stage kinda get pumped up. And so I felt, I mean, and then you’re just so excited. None that matters. You’re at the end. So I feel really good when I step on stage. It’s, it’s so fun and it’s, it is just really neat to see what you can do.

Right. And you know, especially, um, at this time in my life, I never thought I’d be doing that.

Mike: Yeah, I mean, you can, uh, I mean, you can find, you can find examples of people in really good shape who are 70, 80, even 90 years old, so that’s amazing. There’s, there’s no reason. So long as, um, we’re, we’re thinking with the 30 year plan that we can’t be one of those people as well.

Right. And then after the shows, what did you do? Did, was there any sort of, because some people they just kind of, um, Throw caution to the wind and eat everything and

Anna Marie: Oh yeah. I had Prosecco and cheesecake,

Mike: but like, uh, five times a day for, uh, two weeks

Anna Marie: just right after the show. Yeah. Anyone had a, a Brazilian barbecue.

Um, you know, that was a learning curve for me too. And so thank you for bringing that up because, um, As we, as, as we’re, you know, talking about, you know, if anybody’s interested and what kind of things to think about. That is something absolutely to think about is to have a plan for afterwards because I, you know, I kind of floundered after, um, ’cause I did kind of those two shows back to back.

So my first show I kind of, you know, I had a couple days of just whatever, and then I, you know, dove right back in. And then after that second show, um, I, I kind of took a break from all of the, you know, the strict dieting, but then I had a hard time kind of getting back on plan, and it was like the summer and I was just like, what?

I’m just, whatever. I’m just eating whatever, and, and kind of, you know, regressed and, and into some, you know, Not tracking and kind of knowing in my head, right? Like, I know what portions I’m supposed to eat now, right? I’ve done, I’ve been doing this long enough, I know, you know what my four ounces of chicken looks like or what have you, and you know, kind of know what my portions are.

So I kind of intuitively eat, you know, all throughout the day, like what I was eating before. And then for dinner I just eat whatever. And so that wasn’t exactly like the most conducive for, for maintenance. So, um, maybe like this time around, I’m definitely gonna pay more attention to that because the weight can, you know, especially when you’re that depleted, but you know, before a show, um, and you’re that lean, like putting that weight back on, it’s just, boom, it’s so easy.

Mike: And so now you, I mean, you probably did wanna put some back on though. I mean, that’s. Yeah. And, and so did you end up gaining more than you wanted to or?

Anna Marie: I gained more than I wanted to. Okay. I mean, it took a while. That took probably, uh, I’d say, Maybe four or five months, you know, afterwards. ’cause then, you know, ’cause I did pretty good.

I maintained for quite a while, but I think it was just like creeping up and then all of a sudden I was like, uh, yeah, this isn’t where I want to be. I need to pay a little bit better attention to what I’m doing. Yeah. And so then I kind of started paying more attention and then I. I,

Mike: that’s kind of how maintenance goes though, at least for most people, right?

If you’re, if you are just sticking to portions, inevitably portions, they always get bigger. They don’t get smaller. You know what I mean? So, so eventually maintenance is, is you just, it turns, it turns into that where you’re like, I’m just a little bit fatter than I want to be at this point. So then I’m gonna cut and I’ll get back to this maintenance understanding that the tendency is always to get fatter when maintaining not not leaner.

I mean, really it is. Right,

Anna Marie: right. But my goal was also to build, because after my last shows, right, it was like, well, I need to work on these areas, right? Yeah. Like, well then you can make it productive, or my glutes aren’t big enough, or whatever. And so, you know, I had certain areas that I was working on too, and I think that I, you know, I’ve done pretty well in that regard.

Then, now that it’s all kind of coming down, it’s like, oh, I did, I actually did make some progress. Yeah. And you can, you can see it. Um, so there’s that piece too. So, I mean, but still, I mean, I. Doing it in a, in, I think a more intentional manner, um, is, is better than, than just kind of, you know, flying by the wind.


Mike: Especially if, if you want to do more shows and because the timing matters a bit more for, for you than someone who’s not doing shows and they just, they want to get into shape and stay into shape, but whether it happens in six months or eight or 10, or even 12 months, doesn’t matter that much as long as they get there, you know?

Right. Yeah. Well this was great. This was, uh, this was fun talking. Thank you for sharing. And, um, it, it sounds like your plan from here is to keep doing what you’re doing and, and you want to keep. Doing shows and just see where you can go from here and see. Yeah. Can you, can you win more shows? Right. I love it.

Anna Marie: I’d love to win. I’d love to get my Pro card in open. I won it for Masters. Um, but I’d like to win it in an open and, and, uh, do some bigger shows and some pro shows eventually, hopefully. Cool.

Mike: Yeah. Well, uh, thanks again for taking the time to do this. I really appreciate it

Anna Marie: and I’m so glad to talk with you.

And thank you because I always say that, um, this t l Ss got me started on this whole weightlifting journey, and, and I love it.

Mike: Yeah, I love it. I love to hear that because, um, All of all the things that I do, I most enjoy the reading and the writing and hearing from people who exactly like you, where you read the book and then you’re like, oh, I can do this.

And, and now it’s really a, uh, a part of your, of your lifestyle and your identity and, um, and you’re, and you’ve learned more, and now you’re doing more and it’s cool. It’s fun to see.

Anna Marie: Yeah, it’s super fun. Thank you.

Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Before we wrap up, if people wanna find you and follow along, are you on, you, you’re on Instagram, right?

Anna Marie: Yeah.

Mike: Are you other social media? Where can they find you?

Anna Marie: Yeah, on Instagram. Um, my handle is Anne in the arena, and so Anne Marie, Octavia and I, yeah. Um, that one’s open. So that’s kind of following my fitness journey and my competitions and my training and nutrition and, um, other fun things. So yeah, look me up.

Thanks again for doing this. Yeah, so fun. Great to talk with you.

Mike: Well, I hope you liked this episode. I hope you found it helpful, and if you did subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don’t miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you.

And if you didn’t like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have. Ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share. Shoot me an email, [email protected], muscle f o r and let me know what I could do better or just, uh, what your thoughts are about maybe what you’d like to see me do in the future.

I read everything myself. I’m always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode, and I hope to hear from you soon.

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