Ep. #105: Jeff Nippard on building your best butt ever

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Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of the muscle for life podcast. I am Mike of course. And in this episode, I interview Jeff Nippert, who’s a professional bodybuilder and online coach that produces a lot of great [00:03:00] educational content on YouTube. Now, I came across Jeff thanks once again to Corey who works with me in my supplement company, Legion, and she turned me onto his YouTube channel.

And I really liked a video that he made on glute training and I figured it would make a good podcast because while I’ve written about this before, I haven’t really spoken much about it. So I reached out to Jeff and he said he’d love to do it. And that’s what this interview is all about. How to build a better butt.

And in it, Jeff does a fantastic job breaking down, I think more or less everything that you need to know, ranging from the best glute exercises to do and how to do them most effectively to how to make tweaks to exercises that aren’t glute exercises per se, but that can heavily involve the glutes like squats and deadlifts, how to properly program your glute workouts in terms of intensity, volume, frequency, and so forth, and more.

If you want more booty, then this interview is for you. I hope you like it. [00:04:00] Jeff, thank you for coming on the show. I’m excited to have you on and talk about building a better butt. Sweet. It’s a pleasure to be here, 

Jeff Nippard: Mike. 

Mike Matthews: Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, absolutely. So this is something I’ve actually written a bit about it, but it has never, maybe Discuss it a little bit before in the podcast, but it’s, we haven’t, I haven’t done like really dove into it.

So I think I get asked about it more and more. So that’s why it was on my list of I need to find someone. We’re going to do a podcast on that. I think people are going to appreciate it. So I’m just going to just pass the ball to you basically. Cause you mean. Basically, where, where a lot of people are at, especially girls these days, they want to build they want to build the glutes and in some cases, some people, but they don’t want to have big legs necessarily.

They don’t want necessarily, a lot of girls, at least that I hear from and really women from all of all ages, actually. So there’s a lot of focus on. Building the glutes and then some are okay with whatever comes in the way of leg development. If you’re gonna do a lot of squatting, others are more interested in just developing the glutes, but they want to keep their legs not like they don’t want hot dog [00:05:00] legs, but they don’t, they also don’t want big weightlifter legs as well.

And like you even pointed out, and when you’re emailing back and forth, there are quite a few guys that, that now it’s becoming more of a thing to train the glutes specifically as opposed to just getting what you get out of proper leg training. So I thought this would be something that, you’ve, I saw some of your YouTube content you created on them.

That’s how I was like, Oh, I want to talk to him about it. Cause I liked what you had to say. So here we are. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, I appreciate it. It’s definitely on trend right now. Yeah. It’s interesting. My most. My all time most viewed video is my glute training science video, which I actually just published three weeks ago and it’s already at over 300, 000 views, almost like 350, 000 now in just three weeks, which is crazy because I don’t think it’s like far and above some of my other content in terms of information or quality, but it’s just the fact that so many women are trying to build their butt now.

And as you alluded to it, it is increasingly more popular with men as well, I think [00:06:00] especially natural bodybuilders. As a bodybuilder, it’s really important. I think people are increasingly heavily ranked on conditioning. So how lean you look, and a lot of that is assessed from the back and glute striations are really popular right now in natural bodybuilding.

And I think that A really important way to get them to poke through and to show at any level of body fat is to just develop them more. Totally. So you see more bodybuilders training their glutes other than just doing quad dominant movements like squats and deadlifts. They’re doing more glute isolation stuff.

Guys doing barbell hip thrusts and hip abductions, this sort of thing. It’s definitely popular like you said. Yeah. So what’s the, 

Mike Matthews: Where should people start in terms of you have someone listening and they’re like, yeah, I want a better, but what do I 

Jeff Nippard: do? See, just to circle back around to the whole, they want the but not the quads thing. I think that is. At least perhaps in part stemming from the bikini division where I think people are often marked down if their quads are overdeveloped, especially relative to their [00:07:00] glutes. So glutes and hamstrings are really important in the bikini division.

You want some quad shape and development, but you don’t want them to be overpowering like you will often see in power lifters, for example, who do a ton of squatting. So in terms of. where to start. 

Mike Matthews: I guess that’s probably just worth calling out right there that sure. Squats are great for developing the glutes, especially if you’re wider stance than if you’re squatting deep, but in your legs are going to grow inevitably.

So if someone’s listening and for whatever reason, I don’t know about you, but I’ve heard from people that aren’t even, that’s not even necessarily that they don’t want developed legs. It’s that their legs are already actually quite developed. And, but their glutes are, relatively speaking, not as developed.

So like, how are they going to fix that? If all they do is a bunch of heavy squatting because their legs are going to continue to develop to one degree or another. So that’s not necessarily the solution. I’d say they’re probably, there’s also a fair number of people, at least that I’ve come across that have started from scratch and just with squatting and deadlifting [00:08:00] and your basic type of, leg type of training, everything came together nicely.

And they’re just like, yeah, I don’t know. I’m good. But that’s genetics though, 

Jeff Nippard: exactly. And they’re always going to be. genetic and individual factors and preferences and so on. But I think when making general recommendations, the squat is actually a pretty good place to start. I think it’s great for just general development, strength development.

It obviously has a lot of athletic crossover. So the squat would probably be my number one exercise if you were to just do one exercise for like development generally. However for glute development specifically, I think that the research supports the barbell hip thrust being a better alternative.

It. Has more glute activation overall and also has more glute activation relative to the quads So the squats tend to be a better quad movement insofar as they activate the quads more than the glutes and The hip thrust like I said has been shown to activate the glutes more than the squat So that would probably be my number one if you were to just include one [00:09:00] exercise looking to Just build the glutes and 

Mike Matthews: Just to interject there.

So to throw a question out that I know I get asked mainly by, by women is when they’re trying to move up in weight, they find it very uncomfortable, the tips for how to make it more comfortable. 

Jeff Nippard: Sure. So I find that myself, one thing would to be to buy a big pad. So I know that Brett Contreras, who we should just throw his name out here at the beginning, because a lot of the information that we’ll probably talk about will come from either his research or his blog or something like that.

He’s got a ton. You should probably interview. Yeah. Yeah. No, 

Mike Matthews: actually, no, it’s funny enough. So I actually have him scheduled on the show, but because he taught, He has obviously gone through it and he’s had that discussion 8 million times. I wanted to talk about something different with him just for his sake.

You know what I mean? That’s a great idea. So we’re going to have a different discussion. That’s what I was like, I’m going to find someone else that can talk about this and we can throw, you throw a bone to him and say, Hey, this is like the glute guy, but I figured it might be more fun for him. To talk about something completely different [00:10:00] that, 

Jeff Nippard: yeah, exactly.

It was like when I had Lyle McDonald on my podcast, he always talks about the women stuff. So I wanted to hear his opinion on like frequency and training and stuff more to do with men. I’m happy to talk about this because I typically will get asked stuff about like nutrition as it relates to natural bodybuilding and getting lean and that kind of thing.

So this is a fun topic for me. Which 

Mike Matthews: is, that’s, even though that’s even just a narrower thing what else? There’s not that much to say. It’s like you have energy balance, you have macronutrient balance, you have eating nutritious foods. And then playing with your macro, it’s just that discussion, of course, I’ve gone through all that myself.

There’s a point where you’re like, I don’t know what else to say. There’s nothing magical. What else to talk about? Yeah, I know. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: If only we could eat the Brazilian nuts every night and that’s the secret and that’s going to double our testosterone or something. If only. Yeah. Absolutely. 

Jeff Nippard: It would be better for us as content creators if there was something to things like a Kai berries and stuff.

You can talk about it more. Yeah. Superfoods. Yeah. Okay. So where we’re okay. So pain with the hip thrust. I would say if you can get a big heavy pad you can, Use one of those that are not cheap in my [00:11:00] experience. You can also use sometimes Jim does sell 

Mike Matthews: one. Is that why you’re right? Yeah. 

Jeff Nippard: Brett has one.

You can also use the, I call them pussy pads, but they’re the like back protectors that go over your, over the barbell point when you’re spotting tampons you could use one of those, but those often don’t provide a ton of cushioning in my experience. I find it’s better to use like a yoga mat and you can roll it over multiple times and then put that sort of on your hips.

That works. 

Mike Matthews: And you can, and pretty much any gym has these mats as well. It’s like you can find them or you can get your own from bread or whatever, or that’s what I’ve recommended is just go find a mat that your gym has 

Jeff Nippard: and just roll it up. Alternatively you don’t have to use a barbell, even though it’s the most extensively studied.

You could use bands, and bands tend not to cause the same issue. The problem with the bands is that it’s more difficult to load it heavily. So if you’re working in a lower rep range, it might be easier. Harder to present an overloading stimulus with a band unless you have a ton of bands and you can loop them around Yeah, I find band resistance just tends to be [00:12:00] not quite enough if you’re loading in lower rep ranges Yeah, but it’s also not as painful.

So you have to pick your poison They’re not 

Mike Matthews: all gyms have a setup for that. You might have to get your own stuff 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, if you don’t have a hip thruster, which I think costs like 600 bucks, then you can hook up the bands like under heavy dumbbells That’s a relatively easy work around.

Mike Matthews: That’s an interesting, yeah, I haven’t seen anybody do that. I’m like, yeah, I guess that’s an interesting way to Jerry. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, it works. And then also one thing that I’ve been doing is just doing them single legged. So if you do them unilaterally, you don’t have to load as heavily. So you can use like a preloaded barbell that doesn’t have the same weight on it.

Or you could use a plate. So like just lay say a 35 or 45 pound plate in your lap and you might not be able to. Go quite as heavy, but I find even unilaterally presents a slightly different stimulus on the muscle. It’s like a slightly different feel and doing similar to 

Mike Matthews: A split squat versus just a traditional 

Jeff Nippard: exactly.

And like I said, it’s not quite as painful because you have the plate, [00:13:00] which is it’s almost like it’s the way it sits on your lap is a little bit more comfortable than the barbell where you have all of that. Load confined to such a small space, the pressure obviously on your joint is going to be greater.

So those are a couple of alternatives. They’re 

Mike Matthews: great. Yeah. Perfect. All right, cool. So going back to just, so we have that’s obviously an exercise. How would you recommend? So let’s say, most of the people listening to my podcasts are fairly well educated in terms of just pretty much everything, like all the basics of, Diet training, supplementation, whatever.

So let’s say you have someone that is squatting once or twice a week and moderate volume, moderate intensity or type of type of training program. How would you then recommend that they start working in some glute specific stuff? Like how many sets per week, for example? 

Jeff Nippard: Okay good question.

I would say it’s going to be highly individual and depend on their level advancement, but I think that when it comes to Frequency so we can just you know start there. I think that as many of you listeners probably know Two [00:14:00] times a week has been shown to be superior to once a week in terms of hypertrophy pretty substantially At least according to the most recent meta analysis by Schoenfeld and others two times a week seems to be better.

However, three times a week, there’s not a whole lot of data to support that being better than two other few studies. You could cherry pick, but I’ll 

Mike Matthews: be interested to see what also comes out of that line of research because I’ve spoken, like I spoke with Eric Helms about this recently that right now, as we understand it as Frequency as more of a way to, it’s more about the volume that allows you to do and recover from whereas, but if you could get that same volume in one training session and recover from it, it may or may not make that big of a difference.

But yeah, no, it’s an interesting, I think it’s, I agree that it’s generally good advice that if you have, something, some body part that’s lagging. In and you’re just training it once a week right now, directly training it once a week at it. You might have to reduce, depending on how [00:15:00] that workout is, you might have to reduce the volume of that workout, but you can then double that by training it three or four days later and thereby increase the weekly volume.

So yeah just making a, a little note on that for people listening. 

Jeff Nippard: Of course and then of course there could potentially be some mechanistic benefit to training it more than three times a week So five times six times seven times a week My girlfriend for example when we met was training her like six times a week And she didn’t train her upper body because she didn’t want it to grow.

Yeah, and that works just perfectly fine So but if you’re going to take low volume, exactly, so that’s what I was going to get into. If you’re taking a two times a week approach, you can load those individual days more heavily. So you could do say a heavy squat on your Monday workout and then do a heavy deadlift or something on your Thursday workout with lighter squats.

If you really want to bring up your squat or something, but there’s no real need to squat twice a week. However, if you’re, going to be training at a higher frequency of five times a week, or I would say anything more than three or four. You really want to [00:16:00] be cognizant of the exercises that you’re including and choose ones that are going to be of lower impact.

So you could do, hip abductions, banded clamshells, glute kickbacks, even some like light hip thrusts, those sorts of things are going to have less of a generally taxing effect on your system than say heavy squats deadlifts, right? So in terms of setting that up, I would. Probably start off your week where you’re fresh maybe on a monday or something after the weekend with your heavy say squat variation whatever front squats are really effective as well, whatever And then maybe hit them with maybe a lighter It’s a little bit later in the week, so a couple of days later, you could hit them with some hip thrusts or something like that.

Something more 

Mike Matthews: glute as opposed to 

Jeff Nippard: focus and then hit another glute focus session for a third time say Friday, so you could go Monday, Wednesday, Friday with your heavier loading like strictly focused on progressive overload day on Monday and then Wednesday and Friday could be a little bit [00:17:00] more glute.

Specific with more isolation movements and that sort of thing. And just be one example of a way to set it up. But I think that exercise, the exercises that you choose have to be carefully considered because they’re going to determine your rate of recovery after performing them. Absolutely. 

Mike Matthews: Cool. So then in terms of, we’ve touched on growing the glutes without the quads.

Are there other exercises? You mentioned a couple of these exercises. Are these are the ones that you’ve mentioned so far, your favorites? Is there any way that you like to for example, if you’re anyone that wants to grow. Yeah. Their legs, you’re going to tell them you have to be squatting.

So there’s like the top tier. Of course there are exceptions, but that’s like a general, if you can squat and everything’s good and whatever, then you’re going to want to be squatting. And then, so would you say with glute development, that is cool. So the first thing we want to start with is make sure you’re doing some hip thrusts, assuming you can, and there aren’t any physical reasons or limitations or whatever.

And then there are a couple other exercises you mentioned. How do those, what are those and how do they rank for you if you were programming, someone that says, [00:18:00] Hey, I want better glutes, 

Jeff Nippard: right? So I think that with the glutes specifically, it’s of particular importance to load them in a variety of different ways.

I think this is good of muscles just generally speaking, but for muscles like say just like the biceps, it’s like a simple single joint movement. It just flexes the elbow. It’s you just have to curl. The glutes are more complex than that. They have a ton of different origins and insertions.

So they originate at the pelvis, the sacrum, and then there’s a bunch of fascia that runs up the spine from the thorac thorax region down to the lumbar. And the glutes actually insert all the way up. through that fascia. And then, did I say insert? I meant originate all the way up, so they attach all the way up there.

And then also on the femur, so they attach at the femur, and then also at the IT band. So you have all of these different attachment points for the glutes, which mean they can do a bunch of different stuff. So they’re most Probably popular [00:19:00] function and most significant athletically function is hip extension, right?

It’s like driving the hips forward like you would in a deadlift lockout, right? They also do hip external rotation So if you were to point your you like to rotate your whole leg Like clockwise if you’re to rotate your right leg clockwise just so people can follow along sure opening the thing of it is opening Your hips like opening your hips up, right?

And then they also do hip abduction. So like in the bad girl exercise, if you’re bringing your leg out to the side of your body. Yeah. And then also posterior pelvic tilt which is like what you would do like in, when you’re twerking, like the downward part of a twerk. Yeah. Anterior pelvic tilt.

And I like popping your butt out and then posterior is popping it back in. Yeah. So they do all of those things. And if you’re just to include, say like the squat. Which trains, hip extension or the barbell hip thrust, also training hip extension and posterior pelvic tilt to a degree.

I think you’re missing out on hip abduction and external rotation to a degree. And also [00:20:00] just the fact that the fibers run in all these different directions, I think should be an indication that you should train them in different planes of motion if that makes sense. So 

Mike Matthews: we have a simpler version of that with the chest where you have, yeah, there’s the upper chest.

It’s not like it’s some different type of Peck, but because of how the fibers run in as opposed to, the larger lower part of the pack doing reverse grip barbell or, incline pressing helps tremendously with especially if someone has developed that kind of lopsided, cause all they’ve done is flat pressing and decline pressing for years.

I used to be one of those people. So I know firsthand, but yeah. Yeah. 

Jeff Nippard: Very similar. I think there as well. So I would say that you basically want to, and this might not sound overly scientific or anything, but you want to pick exercises that you can feel really well. And those are going to be different for different people.

Some girls that I’ve worked with really love glute kickbacks. Others just find they feel it in their quads. They feel like their quads are taking over, in which case that might not be a good exercise to [00:21:00] include, but often it is. Same thing with lunges. I personally find a really good stretch in my glutes when I do lunges, and they’re always sore for multiple days after, probably because of the eccentric component of lunges that you see, it really stretches the glutes out, like, when you think about what you’re doing when you lunge.

Yeah. But again, some people don’t really like it or it hurts their knees or they have quad issues or whatever. So you don’t have to include that one. I’m just listing off ones that I like. Sure. Low, lower back extensions would be another one or hip extensions, whatever you want to call them.

That machine, hyper extensions, right? Hyper extensions, so that one is also very good for glutes, especially if you do it a certain way, which we can get into. The leg press has been shown to be great at activating the glutes even over the course of the long term. So it’s one of the few exercises that has actually been studied over say a 12 week period and you’ve actually seen significant glute hypertrophy from it.

And there are ways to make it more or less glute focused depending on your foot position and stance and so on. So then there’s also the machine hip abduction, and then you can do that [00:22:00] with bands where you can load it with a plate. There are a ton of different ways you can load the glutes through these isolation type exercises, but I think when you understand first what it is that the glutes are responsible for doing, so you understand their biomechanics, then you can think about, okay, this exercise makes sense.

This exercise doesn’t make sense because it’s not even loading the glutes. Properly. Yeah. I see some people doing weird variations of the squat where they have like the cable held out in front of them and it’s like pulling them forward and they’re just doing squats. Oh, yeah. That doesn’t, I’ve seen that sense.

Yeah. Like on Instagram I see. Random. Yeah. Yeah. So you have to think about what the glutes are actually doing and then load them in a way that’s gonna create 10 greater tension. Yeah. Within the muscle. So yeah, there are a ton of different ways that you can do it, but maybe we can just go through quickly those.

Other exercises and just talk about ways that we can make them more glute focused. Yeah. We could start 

Mike Matthews: with the squat if you want. How to make the squat more glute centric and then move to the deadlift. It’s another good one to specify if you want to there. ’cause there are many right and wrong ways.

There are many wrong ways to a deadlift and not [00:23:00] as many right ways. And we can just move. Yeah. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah. That’s well said. Okay, so first I’d actually like to just quickly elaborate on this. So the reason why we think the squat isn’t quite as glute focused is because it doesn’t load the hips or rather the glutes as much when they’re near or in full hip extension.

So that’s basically when your body is like straight for lack of a better term, right? Like your hips are fully extended. Whereas the squat loads of them largely in the hole and near the sticking point where the hips are mostly flexed Conversely, the hip thrust is going to load the glutes largely when they’re in hip extension.

You think about your body positioning in the hip thrust, you’re almost completely straight. So this has been listening, if you can visualize it 

Mike Matthews: when you’re at the top of that thrust and you’re it’s you’re hovering up in the air. That’s when, if anyone that’s done a hip thrust, that’s when you feel it the most.

Whereas you put your hips in that position in a squat, you’re at the top and there’s no load. Your spine is loaded or whatever, but it’s not, 

Jeff Nippard: There’s no direct, specific load on the glutes, so [00:24:00] that’s been shown again and again. And then that’s probably why the hip thrust leads to greater activation.

But either that’s not to say you can’t make the squat more glute focus. So again, you want to think about what the glutes are doing and that can make sense of. Why these cues are effective so like I think you said earlier one would be taking a wider stance And the reason why that’s effective is because what are you doing?

You’re abducting the hips. You’re bringing the legs out further So it makes sense that they’d be more active that way Also rotating the anybody listening you can feel 

Mike Matthews: that just stand up and have a narrow stance Or, stand for five minutes to the narrow stance and stand for five minutes with a wide stance and you’re going to feel your glutes more with just standing.

So yeah. 

Jeff Nippard: And then the other thing would be point your toes out and think about what you’re doing there. You’re externally rotating the hips. So it’s going to turn the glutes on. Of course. Another one that might be less. intuitive is sitting back. So another way to think of this would be keeping your shins more upright.

So this is a little bit hard to do in the barbell back squat. Some people can do it [00:25:00] easily. They can have a little bit more forward lean. You could use the low bar position that might help. But an easy way to do it would be to use like a counterbalance weight weighted squats. So kettlebell or something out in front of you, that’s going to force you to stay.

Keep your shins a little bit more vertical or use a Smith machine squat where you like have your feet out in front of you and that’s going to force your hips to go further back. And basically what that does is. It increases the external moment at the hip. So it basically brings the application of load.

So the load is directed downwards, right? The way gravity moves, it’s going to bring that sort of like direction of force further from the axis of rotation or at the hip. So you have a greater moment arm between those. So it makes it, it makes that the glutes have to do more.

Yeah. If 

Mike Matthews: you’re going to, if you’re going to hold yourself up, something’s got to do it and the body’s going to go to the glutes. That’s going to be its primary muscle to keep yourself in that position. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah. So I think that’s why you tend to see more activation. In the glutes with the sort of like [00:26:00] a sitting back cue, if that makes sense.

That’s also 

Mike Matthews: Like you said, it’s also a little bit in just in squat form. Like I prefer low bar squatting. And that’s probably because it’s probably why I haven’t really put much tension on it, honestly, but I feel like my glutes have developed well and proportionately with my legs, with my upper legs in particular, Despite not doing actually, like I don’t really do any glute specific training, but I’ve always enjoyed low bar squatting more.

And I didn’t, been dead lifting for a while too, and doing that properly. So that helps as well. But so just throwing that out there, it depends on your body. And some people though, if you don’t, if you don’t really like low bar squatting and if it’s uncomfortable, I would say. Don’t force it.

Similar to sumo versus conventional deadlift, right? If one feels really good to you do that, but if it doesn’t, don’t think you have to do that. 

Jeff Nippard: And we should probably say here that if any of these cues don’t work for you. So let’s say squatting with a wide stance for me is very uncomfortable.

I don’t quite have the mobility to do it. It [00:27:00] wouldn’t make sense for me to do it just for the slight increase in EMG activity. These are just things to like. Little tips to maybe try out if you’re feeling like you’re not feeling your glutes firing in the squat Then you can try these little things that might make a difference for you However, if you’re feeling your glutes fine in the squat and they’re growing and everything you may not need to make these little adjustments I 

Mike Matthews: agree that makes good point.

All right, so I think that pretty much covers the squat and so want to talk deadlifting 

Jeff Nippard: Sure. So interestingly with the deadlift, you don’t see the same effect of increasing the hip abduction angle that you do with the squat. So you don’t actually see big differences between the sumo deadlift and the conventional deadlift.

When you look at EMG activity, they’re actually very similar between the two. Just to clarify for glute activity in particular, for glute activity, what you do see is some. As usual, inter individual variability. So some people are a lot better at conventional deadlift, deadlifting. They’re a lot stronger conventional.

They might see greater glute activation conventional, but as a whole, there doesn’t seem to be a big [00:28:00] difference. And so that’s a common misconception. A lot of people think that the sumo deadlift is better because the sumo squat is better, right? But it hasn’t been substantiated in the research. So with the deadlift, I tend to go with what it is that you’re better at.

So what, when you can lift the most weight in, basically, for me, that happens to be the sumo deadlift. But if someone was a better conventional puller, I would say. I don’t know, ignore the EMG, isn’t much there, do what one is best for you. 

Mike Matthews: Totally. And so then to that point, then it’s more about technique, right?

It’s more about having proper cause I’ve come across just emailing with a lot of people that had that issue with it. They’re saying they don’t really feel their glutes in the deadlift and it was because they weren’t really firing them. Like they didn’t really understand that it’s the deadlift isn’t just trying to pick the weight.

They thought it’s, Their mental kind of cue was just pick the weight up, just whatever, pick it up, stand up. But they didn’t understand how the hips play, the role the hips play, and really the role that the glutes are supposed to play in the lockout. So I think that’s worth probably noting.

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, for sure. A lot of, a common thing with the deadlift that will pretty much negate any glute involvement is having the [00:29:00] hips start too high. And then people, it’s just like a lever that’s just like lower back, all lower back. A really 

Mike Matthews: heavy and cringy good morning. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, basically. So you want to start in a position where you feel some kind of stretch or tension on your glutes from the beginning and then allow your hips to extend and your chest to rise simultaneously, not have your hips already extended and your chest just levers its way out.

Yeah. Yeah. So to 

Mike Matthews: that so that means getting in that deeper starting position. Obviously it’s not as deep as the bottom of a squat. You’re in that half squat position. It changes a little bit from individual individually down there. And then I don’t know about you, but I always like to think of getting it.

Think of it more as getting my hips forward as opposed to just rising off the ground. You know what I mean? So like just really trying to focus on, so the hips are obviously flexed down in the bottom and really what we’re trying to do is get our hips extended and locked. And of course with keeping the upper, but keeping the shoulders rising at the same rate and then consciously getting those glutes to fire and squeezing them as hard as [00:30:00] you possibly can really at the top.

Those are cues that I’ve found have helped me not just with glute development, but it just helps with pulling and it helps 

Jeff Nippard: your 

Mike Matthews: performance. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, definitely. And this does tie in quite nicely with the hip thrust. In my experience, adding the hip thrust to. I’d say a deadlift specific program can really help with lock of strength because it’s exactly the same movement It’s like end range hip extension Yeah So you can load that a lot more in the hip thrust and recover from it a lot better Than you could by say just doing a lot of heavy deadlifts where you might be limited off the floor Or through the mid range whereas you can just specifically load the end range With the hip thrust.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s a 

Mike Matthews: good point. Okay. Anything else you think 

Jeff Nippard: we should touch on deadlift? That’s it. There are other variations that are effective, but I just don’t know, or I’m at least not aware of any research on it, but like the Romanian deadlift, it’s still training hip extension. It would probably be a really good, glute builder.

You’re going to see a ton of glute activation with that variation. And then basically whatever flavor of deadlift you like. Yeah. [00:31:00] Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: Agreed. And just, That I just touched on it, but to make sure that, people listening are thinking with it is really go for that, whatever mind muscle type of connection where if on an RDL, that’s another example of, I’ve heard, I’ve had people email me even that they don’t really feel it too much in their hamstrings.

Again, they were turning it more into a lower back. Type of, good morning just lever type exercise as opposed to what it’s supposed to be, which is, obviously it’s really your hamstrings and your glutes that are supposed to drive that and your lower back is engaged, but it’s just, it just keeps your spine neutral.

That’s really the only role that it’s supposed to have. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, exactly. I think that with the Romanian deadlift in particular, a lot of people might be getting overly caught up with progressively overloading that you can progressively overload the Romanian deadlift a lot, but it just means your lower back is going to take over more.

In my experience, I find it might be smarter if your goal is hypertrophy to drop the weight back, really focus on feeling a good stretch in your hamstrings and then squeezing your glutes at the top and [00:32:00] having an explosive concentric but. You don’t need to load it to the point that your lower back has to get more involved than it needs to in my opinion And then also I should mention this here another variation that I don’t know if this has been studied or not But Brett always talks about the American deadlift.

I’m not sure if you’re familiar with but it’s basically first time hearing it actually He coined it. So as far as I know, so it’s basically a Romanian deadlift, but you have it active posterior pelvic tilt throughout the range of motion. So rather than arching your lower back, like you would, which would help get a greater stretch on the hamstrings, you’re going to keep the lower back slightly rounded a little bit, or like at least posteriorly pelvic tilt.

I don’t really think it’s the But that would round your 

Mike Matthews: lower back a little bit, which would be yeah. Interesting. Because normally, I guess you’re not going to be loading that heavy, right? Because like any sort of deadlift type of obviously you can have some thoracic rounding, not a big deal.

That a lot with especially big power lifters, but lumbar rounding 

Jeff Nippard: usually it could be a dangerous recommend. I don’t want to put words [00:33:00] in Brett’s mouth there. I know that he emphasizes the posterior pelvic tilt and for me acute it. Yeah. And 

Mike Matthews: then the 

Jeff Nippard: other thing you want to do is really actively squeeze the glues together at the top.

So that’s important. That’s 

Mike Matthews: what a lot of people actually don’t do. In my experience, just working with a lot of people because you have to consciously do it. It doesn’t necessarily just automatically happen. Automatically happen. Like you don’t have to consciously activate your quads when you’re squatting.

It just happens. But you can have a lot less glute activity in even a squat. Like I, when I’m squatting, I really try to, as I ascend once I get past that parallel, I’m really consciously trying to involve my glutes as much as possible. To get me up to the top and at the top, squeezing is really as hard as I can.

Same thing with 

Jeff Nippard: deadlifts. Yeah. When locking up the squat, one thing that I find to be helpful is thinking about getting your hips forward. Yeah. Maybe not necessarily just like squeezing your butt cheeks together, like you would if you were like [00:34:00] squeezing a coin between them or something, which is actually what I do for the hip thrust at the top with a squat.

I think about. Getting my hips under the bar, which is going to, I think, be a really effective for lockup strength. Yeah. No, that’s 

Mike Matthews: a good tip. Actually. Yeah. Totally. A hundred percent. I agree. Okay, cool. So I think that’s deadlifting. Let’s move on to one of the other exercises that you had mentioned and let’s say the leg press, for example, you had mentioned that.

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, so this one’s pretty simple. Again, you just want to think about what the glutes are doing, so it would make sense that a higher foot position, so higher on the sled, is going to lead to more glute activation because that effectively mimics the sitting back cue, right? It’s like getting your tibias more straight or your shins more straight.

And it also, it’s subsequently, that’s 

Mike Matthews: also your hamstrings as well. Whereas if you go lower, it’s more of a quad type of exercise. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, exactly. And then the other thing you can do is just point your toes out. You can pretty much do that on everything. Point your toes out. It almost always is going to turn on the boots a little bit.

Yeah. Cool. 

Mike Matthews: And then form wise. If something I like to just tell people, if they’re going to be putting their putting their feet higher, cause there are people that will say, don’t ever do [00:35:00] a leg press because it, it puts your lower back in a compromising position, but it depends on how far, how deep are you going?

Cause you know, anyone that, if you’re learning just barbell training, you quickly learn that like more range of motion equals better, squat deep. You don’t have to full squat necessarily, but. You at least have to hit parallel or get a little bit below it. If you’re bench pressing, get that bar to your chest.

If you’re OHPing, make sure it get all the way to the duh. So they try to apply that to the leg press and Oh, I’ll just try to get my fucking knees past my, I’ll try to get them behind me. You know what I mean? And 

Jeff Nippard: yeah, that’s. 

Mike Matthews: That’s a bad idea. 

Jeff Nippard: I agree. I’m actually quite comfortable with limiting the range of motion to the point that you start to feel, notice the lower back beginning to round.

If your lower back is rounding in the leg press, that’s a bad idea. You need to go that deep. So that’s going to be, again, it’s so individual. Like some people can touch their knees to their chest. It’d be fine. I found the 

Mike Matthews: field to be super flexible generally and they can keep that neutral spine and get real deep.

Jeff Nippard: Yeah. I’ve seen it. I feel like we should probably comment on depth here [00:36:00] really quickly in range of motion. Okay. Thanks. That’s something we glossed over on the squat, but it’s really commonly accepted in my experience that deep squats are better at activating the glutes than parallel squats or partial squats or half squats or what have you.

And I think that this comes from some old research by Katara Sano in 2002. And they did show that. Glute activation relative to quad activation and hamstring activation increased as you increase depth. So basically, deep squats were better at activating the glutes. What they, what, I think scientists after that was published, Criticized it for not using relative loading.

So they basically use the same weight for the half squat that they did for the parallel squat that they did for the full squat. And so of course you expect to see more activation. It’s just harder to go deeper, right? So the relative weight is heavier for the deep squat. You can have squat a lot more than you can full 

Mike Matthews: [00:37:00] squat, 

Jeff Nippard: right?

As opposed to 

Mike Matthews: sticking to like a one rep max type percentage, one rep max for each type of squat. 

Jeff Nippard: Exactly. Exactly. So basically the study was replicated again. Contreras was one person who did this. I think there was another lab that did the same basic study again, except they relative, they loaded it relatively.

So they figured out, say, I don’t know what the exact numbers off the top of my head, but say they did their 10 rep max for the 70, 70 percent one RM for each lift. So it was loaded relatively and then they didn’t see any differences in activation between I think that Brett’s group did The parallel squat and the full squat and maybe it might, I don’t know.

And it was the front squat. It wasn’t the half squat. So I can’t say for sure about that one. As far as we know the half squat is probably not as good as the full squat for a glute activation because we just don’t have it. But the front squat was just as good. So you could squat to parallel. With the front squat or with the full squat and see similar levels of glute activation.

Wow. I 

Mike Matthews: hadn’t seen that research. I’ll check it out. That’s good to know. Cause I had seen [00:38:00] what you’re previously talking about. I had seen that. 

Jeff Nippard: And interestingly, I like still think that it’s better to squat deep just because when 2002 did this, they ended up getting a lot of heat from it later down the road after these newer studies came out.

But if you actually look at Kata Rossano. They not only measured EMG activity relative to the maximum voluntary isometric contraction. So in a sense, they controlled for it. They did because what they did was they expressed it as a percentage. So let’s say you have 100 percent activation overall, how much of that is coming from the glutes?

How much is coming from the quads? And that was how they expressed it across the movements. Okay. So you could make the case that it is still increasing relative to the quads and the loading doesn’t really matter too much. Yeah, exactly. So it’s still an open debate whether squats are deeper, deep squats are better or not.

I think in my opinion, I think that a 

Mike Matthews: simple way for the listeners to just come to their own conclusion is try both [00:39:00] try parallel and try deep and see if you feel a difference in your glutes, if you feel more activation and one in the deeper squat, then do that. If you don’t, then maybe don’t worry about it.

Do whichever again is most comfortable to you and you can do the best. And obviously you’re going to, you’re going to be able to move more weight in the parallel squat. But for some people they don’t have the mobility to full squat. It, it just, it doesn’t feel good. So it’s not, you don’t have to do it.

Jeff Nippard: I think my recommendation would be to at least try for the parallel squat. And if you can squat astrograss then do it. It might be of better benefit. You have a greater range of motion and range of motion tends to be a little bit better. But if you are, like you said, limited in your ability or mobility, or let’s say you don’t want to load as heavily, then you can use, say the front squat, which shows similar glute activation.

Despite not being loaded as heavily. Yeah. So that’s a really good alternative. Yeah. Would be a front squat. I 

Mike Matthews: flipped the front squatting for a bit. Like I had, I was doing a lot of back squatting and just got, it got to a point where I was not gonna make much more [00:40:00] progress in my back squat unless I really started training for it specifically, which I didn’t also want to do because I felt like my upper legs were getting to a point where like my jeans weren’t fitting anymore.

There’s a point where I go, all I would like more. I would like to have like more separation and more development in my quads, but I honestly would not like to add two inches to my quads over the next year. Also my calves are forever lagging, so there’s just trying to manage that as well.

So I decided just to switch to front squatting and it was it’s a nice change. Is it was difficult. I went from back squatting three 65. The three 55, three 70 in that range for whatever, a handful of reps too. I had to start my front squats at one 85 for eight. I think I was like, Holy shit, this is way harder.

And that was legitimately the first time I had front squat in forever. But I was surprised and how, it was nice. It almost felt like newbie gains again. Cause then I was able to work up to the best I’ve done is 275 for maybe one or two. But then I hit that sticking point again, where my, I have long, long legs and [00:41:00] long femurs in particular, which mechanically just don’t make for good squatting, but I can recommend front squats.

If anybody, if you haven’t done any front squats, they’re a harder. Sometimes you’ll see someone, you’ll be like, Oh, whatever. 225 repping out 225 on front squad. Yeah. Who cares? That’s actually probably a bit harder than you think. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah. Yeah. It’s true. And for people like you say who have long long squeamers, long femurs and struggle with maintaining any resemblance of an upright position in the spot.

I think that a front squat can be corrective. As well as a back squat past a certain point, it might not necessarily be a technique issue. It just might be a matter of your skeleton. And you just have to accept what is, but I think that you should, as a corrective measure, you could try those movements first to try to reinforce a more upright posture, which you’re basically forced into in the front squat.

Totally. Totally. 

Mike Matthews: Okay. Great. So then let’s move on to another exercise. Is there, are there any others that, yeah that, 

Jeff Nippard: yeah we can blast through these. So like the lunge is very similar. I’m more forward. Lean on the lunge tends to increase glute [00:42:00] activation, a longer, 

Mike Matthews: you have to really get out, like put that foot out.

Jeff Nippard: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don’t make a little baby steps. Yeah. Take longer strides. What else? Oh, one cue that I find really helpful is driving your front heel into the floor, and this will basically force your front leg to be like the active mover rather than using the momentum of your back leg or letting the walking lunge.

Sort of just carry you forward. Yeah. Drive your heel down into the floor. That really helps in my experience. Instead of the lateral moving lunge doing them forward. Tends to be better. Okay. Some people really like the reverse lunge and that’s a good one I didn’t mention it in my video, but some people will find a better Connection or whatever with the reverse lunge.

I personally find it awkward. Yeah, same But some people swear by it. So throw it out there. Yeah. What else? For lower back extensions, this is actually an important one, I think, because it can very easily be a lower back exercise. And that’s how I’m using it currently trying to rehab an injury. You can really target your spinal erectors with it, but you can [00:43:00] also target your glutes with it with a couple technique modifications.

Firstly. Rotate your feet out again. This is one where you actually do want to round your lower back slightly. And what that will do is it’ll basically take your erectors or your lower back out of extension and force your hips to do more of the extending. So your glutes will turn on more that way.

You really want to think about using your glutes, like actually, like you might even want to limit your range of motion. A little bit with this one and also squeeze your glutes really hard at the top. And then also bending your knees a little bit has been shown to increase glute activation in that one.

Mike Matthews: So those are good tips because like most of the women I see doing hyperextensions, I’m assuming they’re doing them because of, they heard that it’s good for glutes. I don’t think it’s nuts. They’re just trying to do it so they can deadlift more or something like that. And are doing them though, just in it just as a lower back exercise.

There’s just looking at it, that there’s no, there’s really no glutes involved in that, 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Mike Matthews: Anything with [00:44:00] kickbacks or, 

Jeff Nippard: yeah so with kickback, I don’t think there’s any, I don’t know of any research on kickbacks, like an extensively studied exercise.

But one thing that in just coaching clients I found you want to think about, imagine that there’s a box on the floor and you’re trying to push the box back to begin. And then as you finish it out, you want to arc your foot up like in a, like upwards. So kick your foot up at the end, so don’t just kick up and also don’t just kick back if you just literally kick back like you do in those like glute kickback machines where you’re like locked in it.

It actually over emphasizes the quads in my opinion. So you want to get the slight kick back to get the movement going and then kick up word 

Mike Matthews: That, no, that, I think that totally makes sense. So how did that end? Do you like, okay. Yeah. What’s that? And then lean forward a bit.

Also, don’t do them straight standing up. And so then how do you like to then load that? Because obviously, if it’s a machine, it’s just going to be a straight back. I haven’t seen a machine that [00:45:00] is. It is just like you were saying, it’s almost like almost becomes a quad push. At least it’s a half quad push.

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, exactly. It’s not a good exercise. I like to do it with a cable. Yeah. You can also do it with like ankle weights if you want to do them quadruped. So like you can get on all fours and then kick one leg up. That’s actually a really good pre activation exercise in my opinion. It’s hard to load, but it can be really good at activating the glutes.

So like you could do a series of like fire hydrants where you’re like sticking your leg out to the side and then some kickbacks and you can put ankle weights on if you wanted to load it a bit. But even just body weight, it’ll really get the glutes firing. And then you can finish with some hip circles.

So like you’re on all fours and you’re just rotating your upper leg in a circle. It’ll really get your glutes firing. And it might be smart to do that before doing anything just so that you know what it feels like you get a little bit of a pump and that might them firing for the other exercises that you’re going to do.

Or this was something I mentioned in my video you could use like one of those hip circles, like [00:46:00] resistance band, like Mark Bell sells them and just do some like basic hip abductions with that before you get going with your squats or lunges or whatever you’re going to start with. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah.

Mike Matthews: Those are good tips. Some people also, just, especially I’ve seen it with guys that have trouble with It’s really feeling their back with a heavier deadlifting or pulling, starting out with some pull ups even to just get the muscles working in so they can feel them more with with their heavier stuff.

Okay, good. So are there any other exercises that you think should be discussed in terms of a technique little tips? 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, there are a couple other ones that I like, like I, I do actually glute press downs. So like on an assisted pull up machine, you see them, this is like a really popular Instagram one, but I just find them on, I have no idea if it’s like in any way substantiated empirically, but a lot of women in my experience really feel this one or whatever.

It’s 

Mike Matthews: like almost like a weighted as if you’re like, it’s like a stair stepper, but it’s weighted kind of thing. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah. So you can do that one. But again, you want to think about driving with your glutes, lean forward slightly. Okay. Thanks. And don’t let your quads take over too much if you [00:47:00] can do that.

Also, the hip abduction machines, like the bad girls exercise. This one I just saw 

Mike Matthews: everyone listening. That’s opening your legs, basically. Yeah. So it’s just spreading your legs over and over against weight. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, exactly. So that one will really target the glute medius. So it’s good for developing that sort of like upper outer glute area.

And with this one, you want to I find in my experience, finding a back angle that works for you is probably the most important thing. I think a lot of people do feel it if they lean forward more and then also if they elevate their butt up off of the seat I find if you’re sat, if you’re just like plop down there and you’re just like going out with your legs you’re not going to be as like.

Turned on. As your leaps are slightly elevated in your, I personally feel it more in my hip flexors if I just sit there and yeah, exactly. 

Mike Matthews: So 

Jeff Nippard: Those are it. I think that’s, I think I’ve exhausted everything. I need to say, but 

Mike Matthews: it’s extensive. It’s great. So there was one last thing we had here, which is, and you had touched on this earlier, but you might just want to, I might just want to call it out, which is the role of [00:48:00] a more higher rep pump training versus, just straight progressive overload training, which it was obviously what.

Especially a lot of people listening to me are going to be more focused on let’s just increase whole body strength. Let’s get a good squad, a good deadlift, a good, bench press, OHP or whatever. But when it comes to the glutes, what have you found in terms of, we’re really talking about, intensity rep ranges and so forth.

Jeff Nippard: So I think that, and your listeners might be familiar with this as well, but I The kind of, maybe, most commonly accepted model, at least in my experience is Schoenfeld’s three point model where you have mechanical tension, muscle damage, and metabolic stress being the three main drivers of hypertrophy.

Yeah, I’ve written about 

Mike Matthews: it many times. Yeah. 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah. Of course. So I think that you want to structure your training in a way that’s going to be able to optimize most of those with, I think, tension being the most important thing. So if you’re someone who is limited on time, you could get away with a more minimalistic workout, like you said, where you might just like squat, [00:49:00] barbell, hip thrust, row bench press up, OHP, whatever.

And you’re good. If you want to optimize your training, I think you should, be including other exercises and, Other rep ranges. So I think that using a variety of rep ranges is really important, especially for the glutes. Because like I said, they are so varied in their structure.

Yeah. So it’s also because 

Mike Matthews: also in some of these exercises, they don’t lend themselves to, yeah, you can’t load a kit back like 85 percent of on rep max kit back. 

Jeff Nippard: Nah, it’s not 

Mike Matthews: going to work. 

Jeff Nippard: You just can’t do it. Yeah, exactly. So I think that, yeah, doing some burnout. exercises at the, say, end of a session is a really good idea, and you can do that at the end of every session because it’s pretty easy to recover from.

You might be sore for a couple days after, but the repeated bouts effect will kick in and you won’t be sore for so long if you keep doing it. One that I really like is, again, borrowing from Brett, but I think it’s just called Brett’s Glute Burnout or whatever, it’s on YouTube, and it’s basically where you Are on a [00:50:00] bench or a hip thruster if you have one and you hook up Bands, or you could use a plate or a barbell if you don’t have the bands you hook up a hip circle.

So you’ll need one of those around your knees and Initially, you’re just sat there doing 20 hip abductions. So you’re just like, flaring your knees in and out and then With your knees with a wide stance you do 20 hip thrusts With the bands around your hips with the knees out, then you bring the knees in.

So you no longer have that tension from the band in terms of active hip reduction. You’re just like, you’re just there with a narrow stance. The band isn’t doing anything. And then you do another 20. This sounds painful. So it’s like a 60 rep set. Absolutely burn out your glutes at the end of a session.

So like doing that once a week, I think maybe at the end of like their progressive overload day or something like that. Where you’re not getting as much metabolic stress it would be a good idea. That sounds painful. Okay, [00:51:00] 

Mike Matthews: great. Is there anything else? I think we’ve touched on, we’ve touched on a lot.

I don’t need, I don’t know what else, what’s left. 

Jeff Nippard: If you can’t grow a butt after this, then you just don’t have the genetics for it. You should stop. 

Mike Matthews: Which is, anyone can grow a butt. Maybe you’re not going to have But some of the fake butts on Instagram, there’s that, you never know what you’re even looking at, which is, that’s it’s funny.

That’s the that’s I guess the female version of steroids these days is like you look at these butts, you don’t know, is that a real butt or did she just go under the knife? And cause sometimes you see some of these girls with their legs where, yeah, they can have quote unquote toned legs or whatever, but the butt and the leg, it makes no sense.

Like how did these, how did this, the ratios are, what am I even looking at? 

Jeff Nippard: Yeah, I actually find a good indicator of that is looking at the hamstring development because some people might not have good quads But if they have a big butt there’s a chance They have pretty well developed hamstrings whereas people with implants will just have the butt and then they have these little twig hamstrings coming down from them because it’s hard to train the glutes without training [00:52:00] hamstrings like the hamstrings do so much for hip extension to So yeah But you’re right.

And I’m just for the sake of clarity, completely joking about the genetics thing. I think I know pretty well, everyone can build their glutes if they’re patient enough with it. Like even people who are like really low responders given enough time, if you find what works for you, they will grow.

But you need to keep in mind that some people could be doing everything wrong and still have a very impressive set of glutes just because there’s, there is a genetic baseline that. It underlies everything that we’re talking about. And so some people are going to get away with a lot, doing a lot less than others.

You just, again, like we’ve said several times, need to find what works for you and keep doing it and then just keeping consistent. 

Mike Matthews: Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Great. I think I think that’s everything. So where can people find you and your work and if there’s anything that you have. Product wise or service wise that you have that, that you want to talk about, or do you maybe have upcoming or whatever this, lever will let everybody know.[00:53:00] 

Jeff Nippard: Sure. So first of all, I guess a good supplement to this would be my glute science explained video. So on my YouTube channel, I do a combination of lifestyle blogging and informative content where I’ll discuss scientific literature like I did in this podcast except it’s a little bit more highlighted.

It’s a little bit more digestible, I think, for most people who just want the bottom line. I do that a lot on my YouTube channel. You can find it, it’s just JeffNippard youtube. com forward slash JeffNippard. That’s where I put out most of my content. I also have a podcast where I interview People like you, Mike it’s called ice cream for PRs so ice cream for the number four and PRs.

So I interviewed. If you want to reciprocate, 

Mike Matthews: I’ll come on and talk about something. I don’t know. 

Jeff Nippard: That would be very cool. I’d love to do that. I’ve actually been on a hiatus from the podcast because I’ve been really focusing on my YouTube, which has been growing really well, but I’m planning to bring back the podcast this month.

So I’ll definitely be in touch with you about that. In terms of products I’m planning to release a group specific program when I cycle back around to touch on that. Again, on my channel so you can just stay tuned for that. But other than that the best thing that you can do.[00:54:00] 

To support me is subscribe to my YouTube channel and my podcast. That would be great. And you can follow me on Instagram. It’s just my name, Jeff Nippert. 

Mike Matthews: Awesome. That’s perfect. I think yeah, I think that’s a wrap. I think it’s going to, I think people are going to really appreciate it. Cause this is a lot more detailed than I’ve gone into, even when I’ve written about glue.

So this is great. I’m glad that we did this. I think you’re gonna, you’re going to hear from people that appreciate it. So thanks again for taking the time. This was great. And yeah. I will, we’ll flip around when you’re ready and then we’ll collaborate again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good.

Thanks Mike. I really appreciate it. Yep. Thank you. Hey, it’s Mike again. Hope you liked the podcast. If you did go ahead and subscribe. I put out new episodes every week or two. I’ll where I talk about all kinds of things related to health and fitness and general wellness. Also head over to my website at www.

muscleforlife. com where you’ll find not only past episodes of the podcast, but you’ll also find a bunch of different articles that I’ve written. I release a new one almost every day. Actually I release four to six new articles a [00:55:00] week. And you can also find my books and everything else that I’m involved in over at muscleforlife.

com. All right. Thanks again. Bye.