Ep. #659: The Best of Muscle for Life: Mini-Cuts and Bulks, the Science of Hypertrophy, and 48 Laws of Power

Hello and welcome to the latest and greatest episode of Muscle for Life. I’m Mike Matthews and thank you for joining me today. Now, I have recorded hundreds of episodes of Muscle for Life and I’ve. Talked about a huge variety of things related to health, fitness, lifestyle mindsets, ranging from the basics of diet and exercise, like energy and macronutrient, balance and progressive overload, and training frequency and volume to fads like the ketogenic and carnivore diet and collagen protein to more unfamiliar territories like body weight, set point, and fast.

Cardio and some episodes resonate with my crowd more than others, but all of them contain at least a few key takeaways that just about anyone can benefit from. At least that’s what I tell myself. That’s what helps me sit down in the chair every day and do this, and as cool as that is. It poses a problem for you, my dear listener, especially if you are new here, and that is, ain’t nobody got time for that.

We’re talking about probably a thousand plus hours of content at this point. And while some people actually do make the time to listen to most or even. All of my podcasts, my Whizbang analytics tell me that while many listeners tune in on a regular basis, they don’t catch every installment of Muscle for Life.

Thus, they miss out on insights that could help them get even just a little bit better inside and outside the gym. Because if you just get a little bit better, consistently enough, that can add up to big results in the long. And people have also been telling me that they would like me to do more shorter multi topic episodes like my q and A’s and says You episodes.

And so I got an idea. How about a best of series of podcasts that contains a few of the most practical and compelling ideas, tips, and moments from. My most popular episodes going all the way back to the beginning. This way, people who are new in particular can quickly determine if this is the droid they’re looking for, if this podcast is for them or not, and then those who are regulars and enjoy what I’m doing, but just don’t have the time or inclination to listen to.

All of my stuff, and I do understand that I don’t take it personally. , you can also then benefit from the discussions and the episodes that you are not listening to in full. And you can also find new episodes to listen to without having to give an hour of your time to determine whether it was worth it or not.

So here we are with the best of Muscle for Life, and in this episode you’ll be hearing handpicked morsels from three episode. The first was an interview I did with Lane Norton on mini cuts and mini bulks, and this was originally published on April 5th, 2019, in case you wanna go back and hear the whole interview.

The second is a monologue that I did called The Definitive and Practical Guide to Muscle Hypertrophy, and this was published on January 16th, 2019, in case you want to go check it out. And then the third episode that you are going to hear highlights. Was a monologue called My Top Five Takeaways From The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Green, a book club episode that was published on January 7th, 2019.

Also, if you like what I am doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my sports nutrition company Legion, which thanks to the support of many people like you, is the leading brand of all natural sports supplements in the world, and we’re on. Because every ingredient and dose in every product is backed by peer-reviewed scientific research.

Every formulation is 100% transparent. There are no proprietary blends, for example, and everything is naturally sweetened and. Flavored. So that means no artificial sweeteners, no artificial food dyes, which may not be as dangerous as some people would have you believe. But there is good evidence to suggest that having many servings of artificial sweeteners, in particular every day for long periods of time may not be the best for your health.

So while you don’t need pills, powders, and potions to get into great shape, and frankly most of them are virtually useless, there are natural ingredients that can help you lose fat, build muscle, and get healthy faster. And you will find the best of them in legions products to check out everything we have to offer, including protein powders and protein bars pre-work.

Host workout supplements, fat burners, multivitamins, joint support, and more. Head over to www.buy legion.com, b u y legion.com, and just to show how much I appreciate my podcast peeps, use the coupon code M F L at checkout and you will save 20% on your entire first order. So again, if you appreciate my work and if you want to see more of it, and if you also.

All natural evidence-based supplements that work. Please do consider supporting Legion so I can keep doing what I love, like producing more podcasts like this. Alright, let’s start with the interview I did with Lane Norton on mini cuts and mini books. Generally speaking, is it better to stretch your surpluses, your calorie surpluses out for as long as possible?

Which then basically you kind of just ride it until you get too fat. And if you’re a guy, let’s say it’s somewhere up around 17, 18% or so is when you, most people are like, all right, I need to. Lose some fucking fat. And then as you go into a, you go into a sustained deficit to get rid of the fat and retain as much of the muscle as you can that you gained, and then just rinse, repeat.

Is that a better strategy for long-term muscle and strength gain? Or is it better to do shorter periods of surpluses and deficits? So I thought Lane would be the perfect guy to talk to about this because he’s had a lot of experience, both personally and with clients doing it both ways and. . Yeah. So with that lane, here’s the microphone.

Yeah. So great question and as as people who know me, uh, what I’m gonna say is it depends . So I think in, in general, talking off air, but I agree with you that I think when you first get into lifting, especially for guys, women are a little bit different just because psychology, makeup, and we’ll talk about that.

But for guys, you know, you wanna. A good portion of that in a surplus, so you can really maximize what you can do in that first year, because that’s where you’re gonna get people argue about how much you know of your overall gains you make in the first year. But I mean, it’s, it’s probably over 50% of the muscle you’re gonna gain in your entire life from training is gonna be in the first year of consistent training.

It’s an astronomical amount compared to the other years. So, uh, I think being in a deficit, because you’re gonna recomposition anyway, even if you’re in a surplus, you’re gonna be partitioning a lot more of those nutrients towards building muscle. And lean body mass as opposed to gaining fat than you will at any other time in your training career, regardless.

So I don’t think, we’re not saying eat like an idiot, but I think, you know, a sustained, I was gonna say like, let’s qualify that super. Like really I can , you know, super Bowl can gain 50 pounds an year. I, I don’t think that’s productive. I think a sustained several hundred calorie sur plus. It’s probably productive where you’re gaining a solid two to four pounds per month.

I, I think that that’s probably wanna shoot for like the average of like around two or three. But if you’re new, and obviously it depends on if you’re a tiny and you’re 110 pound guy, you don’t want to be probably gaining four pounds a month. That’s probably too rapid. So in any case, I think in those cases, What I tend to see is people who get into lifting, um, they want to be shredded and huge at the same time.

They do these things improperly because the timing’s really important and what they do is they end up chasing their tail. They kind of half-ass a bulk, and then they get, you know, a few weeks into the bulk and they go, oh man, I wanna be shredded. And then they go and they do a few weeks of cutting in and they, they kind of half-assed screw this cutting.

I wanna be jacked, I wanna be huge. I don’t care if I’m. And they start to get a little fat and they just go around chasing their tail. They don’t make any progress. I think if you’re doing targeted, I used to do this, I’d been lifting about three or four years consistently, and I started doing, I guess what you would call cyclical bulking.

So I would do four to eight weeks in a surplus, and then I would do two to three weeks in a deficit. And the reason I liked that was because one, uh, two to three weeks of cutting is not enough to really drop your metabolic rate. You’ll have a small amount of drop in that short of time period, but it’s not much.

It’s not gonna be anything that lasts for a meaningful period of time. And you’re probably also not gonna notice much difference in the way of training. Right? That’s right. The other benefit is you are gonna lose the most amount of fat. Anybody who’s ever done a long cut, when do you. Easiest right at the beginning, right?

Right after you’ve been in a surplus. It’s when you get to the end that it becomes an absolute and utter grind. You’re gonna be able to cut fat more efficiently during those early weeks. So you get that, it’s kinda like, you know, you get in, get out, get some fat off, feel more comfortable. And I found that that actually did a good job with motivating people to get back on their bulk because they’ve cut off a little bit of excess fat, they feel a little more comfortable and okay, now I’m, I’m happy to go back into this bulk and try to build some more muscle.

I think for people who they have a healthy metabolic, And they haven’t been doing yo-yo dieting all their life. I think it can be really cyclical. Walking can be a great thing. I mean, we kind of have cyclical cutting now. Um, I don’t know if you’ve seen any of the recent research on diet breaks. , yeah.

Mm-hmm. , I’ve, uh, written and spoken about it a little bit actually. Yeah, so really interesting stuff. I’m actually on a, a recent review of literature with a couple others, Jackson PIOs, Eric Helms, and Andy Galpin. It’s pretty interesting and it’s kind of like the same concept that it reversed When you do one to two week phases at maintenance, while you’re cutting, it seems like it preserves your metabolic rate much better than if you’re just doing a straight deficit.

Whereas in the off season or bulking season, or whatever you wanna call it, you are, you’re putting in these little cuts and they do really well because your metabolic operates really fast. Now you’re putting in these little periods of maintenance to kind of convince your body that, Hey, I know we’ve had this deficit, but here’s some food.

You know, food’s not scarce. You don’t have to go so aggressive with metabolic adaptation because what happens during dieting is your body tends to overreact to your deficit and will slow down much more than you. Your metabolic rate slows down much more than you would predict just based on the amount of lean body mass you lose, and fat mass.

So, Yeah, I think that these kind of cycles can be really helpful, but it also depends on the psychological makeup of the person. I mean, I had somebody who, um, during cutting, I was doing diet breaks with them and they’re like, I hate this. I hate feeling like I get into a rhythm and then boom. Now I’ve got a week where I’ve gotta eat more and I just wanna do straight deficit.

I don’t wanna high days. I don’t want low days. I want the same every day. You know, for me, what I tell people is the most important thing is having a plan that you can stick to. So I said, Hey, if that’s something that that’s more sustainable for you, then, then that’s what we’ll do. But, uh, I think they are a useful tool as long as they’re implemented appropriately.

All right. So you have someone, well, it could be a guy or a girl, and they’re starting with a relatively high body fat percentage. Let’s say it’s a dude at 20 or 25%, or a girl at um, at 25, 30 plus. What are your thoughts? And they’re just getting into weightlifting. They’re going Okay. Should I, they’re just getting into it.

Yeah. I, I think I’m probably gonna have them cut first. And here’s my reasoning with that. Since they’re new, they’re still gonna gain muscle, uh, regardless because one, because they have a, a big surplus of energy, their body fat stores, so they can, they can do some body repositioning. Um, and the drive to adapt to the stimulus is going to be so great.

At the onset of training that they are gonna lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, right. For the most part. So, yes. And the other thing is too, is like if you take somebody who’s not comfortable in their diet and they say, you know what? We’re gonna put you on a bulk or not, not comfortable with their body.

We’re gonna put you on a bulk. You need to be the calorie surplus. Their adherence is gonna be pretty shit, because they’re gonna be like, well, why am I doing this? I, I feel like I’m looking worse and worse or, or not giving them my goal. Whereas if you can get ’em to drop, you know, 20, 15, 20 pounds or something like that, they look better.

They feel better, they feel better about themselves, and they’re probably more encouraged and are gonna be more adherent moving forward and being consistent. Now they’ve got some of that progress. I usually tell people, When in doubt cut is usually what I say. People say, well, should I cut? Should I go? I usually say, when in doubt cut Only from the perspective that for me and clients I work with, if they’re not real comfortable with their body heading into a bulk or a muscle gaining phase, they don’t stick with it very long.

because they start looking in the mirror and they go, oh, I mean, look at me. I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I’d like to think I’m pretty successful. And still I’m, you know, I’m about 2 25 right now, which is big for me, and I’m looking in the mirror and I’m, I’m having to tell myself, you’re not fat.

You’re just comparing yourself to what your best was. You know, body, fat wise, you’re not fat. You’re still leaned by most people’s standards, you know, but even my mind plays tricks on me, you know? But that’s, if I was 16, I wouldn’t be able to do. In a gaining phase when I didn’t feel real comfortable with myself because I would just fall back into cutting.

You know? So I think if it’s a cut with the focus that you’re gonna get comfortable enough to where you can then get back into a caloric surplus, build some muscle, that sort of thing, I think that’s okay. Um, but yeah, I’ve just found that people have pretty terrible adherence to gaining phases when they already don’t feel comfortable with their body fat level.

Yep, yep. I totally agree.

Okay. That’s it for the highlight reel of the interview I did with Elaine Norton on mini cuts and mini bulks. Again, this was originally published on April 5th, 2019, so you can just go back and find it if you wanna listen to the whole thing. Now let’s get to number two. The takeaways from the monologue I did on muscle hypertrophy called the Definitive and Practical Guide to Muscle Hyper.

Let’s start with answering a simple question. The first question that we need to ask, which is, what is muscle hypertrophy? Well, like I mentioned, it is simply the technical term. For an increase in muscle size, hyper means over or more so muscle hypertrophy literally means the growth of muscle cells. Now, to understand what cause.

Muscle hypertrophy and how it works. You first need to understand what muscles are comprised of. So muscle tissue is a complex structure with bundles of long strands of muscle cells that are sheathed in a thick band of connective tissue known as the perian. There are three main components of muscle tissue, and they are water, which makes up about 60 to 80% of muscle tissue by weight, glycogen, which is a form of stored carbohydrate that can make up anywhere from zero to 5% of muscle tissue by weight.

and protein, which makes up about 20% of muscle tissue by weight. So to cause muscle hypertrophy, you need to increase the amount of water, glycogen, or protein in a muscle cell. Okay, so far so good. Simple enough. Right. Now let’s talk about the two kinds of muscle hypertrophy. So when people say muscle hypertrophy, they’re generally referring to an increase in the amount of protein.

In the muscle, and this is known as myofiber hypertrophy, which refers to an increase in the amount of protein contained in individual muscle cells. Now it’s called myofiber hypertrophy because myo means muscle, and a fibril is a thread like cellular structure. Myofiber hypertrophy is not the only type of muscle hypertrophy, though there is also sarcoplasmic hypertrophy now Sarco.

Flesh and plasma refers to plasma, which is a gel-like material in a cell that contains various important particles for life. We can just leave it at that. We don’t have to get too complicated with it. So sarcoplasmic hypertrophy then is an increase in the volume of the fluid and the non contractile components of the muscle, the stuff that doesn’t contract, like glycogen, water, minerals, and so, So first let’s talk about muscle fiber type and how this affects muscle hypertrophy.

So as you know, a muscle fiber is a muscle cell. Those terms are interchangeable and not all are the same. Some muscle fibers are better suited for endurance activities and others are more suited for strength and power. So the former, the endurance fiber. You could say are technically referred to as type one muscle fibers, and the latter, the strength and power ones are type two.

Now, the type one fibers are also known as slow twitch muscle fibers. You’ve probably heard of that. And these are dense with capillaries. They’re rich in mitochondria and myoglobin, and they are very efficient at absorbing oxygen from the blood, which. Makes them very resistant to fatigue. This is why these type one muscle fibers can contract repeatedly for very long periods of time.

They also, however, have about half of the potential for growth and power out. Put as type two muscle fibers. Now, type two muscle fibers are also known as fast twitch muscle fibers and their structure and physiology make them better suited for generating strength and power. They also grow larger than type one fibers, and they contract.

Faster, but they also fatigue much faster, which makes them less suited to those longer endurance activities. Now, because of these differences, bodybuilders have claimed for many years now that you can and even should selectively target these muscle fiber types with different. Styles of training techniques, one of the more common ones that is talked about is using higher reps and lower weights to maximally stimulate the type one muscle fibers, and then using higher weight and lower reps to maximally activate the type two fibers.

This way they say you can gain. As much muscle as quickly as possible, and while the theory behind this approach may sound reasonable, when you start to look beneath the hood, things get messy. First of all, the idea that different kinds of strength training preferentially, stimulates different kinds of muscle fibers simply isn’t true.

Whether or not a muscle fiber type activate. During your set depends more on how close you are to muscle failure than what reran you use. In other words, as long as you finish your sets relatively close to failure, both heavy and lightweights can stimulate both type one and type two muscle fibers.

Equally well, Dr. Brad Schoenfeld made this clear in one of the most comprehensive reviews on Muscle Growth to Date, which was published in 2010 in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. And in it he says, quote, A fiber type prescription with respect to repetition range has not been out by research.

Second, not all muscle fibers fit neatly into these type one and type two classifications. A large proportion of our. Muscle fibers share properties of both type one and type two cells. And these quote unquote hybrid muscle fibers can adapt well to both strength and endurance activities. And what this means is it is more or less impossible to only target your type one or type two muscle fibers with different kinds of training or rep ranges.

The last problem with this idea of targeted muscle fiber type training is that most of the muscles in your body have a roughly even mix of type one, type two, and hybrid muscle fibers. Now, The calves are a notable exception because they tend to be about 60 to 90% type one muscle fiber, and this is why there are people like me out there who have calves that refuse to grow no matter how much you train them.

If you do the following five things, you can gain all the muscle and strength that you want. Assuming you don’t have body dysmorphia . So the first is do lots of heavy compound strength training. The second is do a relatively small amount of cardio. The third is maintain a slight calorie surplus of five to 10%.

The fourth is follow a high protein, high carb diet, and the fifth is take supplements that are proven to accelerate muscle gain. Let’s review each of these. Steps in turn. So step one, do lots of heavy compound strength training. Now, there are many ways to train your muscles and many right ways to train your muscles, but when the goal is gaining strength and gaining size as quickly as possible, nothing beats heavy compound weightlifting.

This is better than workout machines. Pump training or classes, body weight exercises, yoga, Pilates, and everything else you can do to develop more muscle definition. Now, what do I mean by this? Well, by heavy, I mean you should be working primarily with weights in the range of 75 to 85% of your one rep max, which generally means working in the rep range of four to 12 reps.

I recommend that you work in the lower end of that rep range on your big compound lifts, which are the lifts that involve several major muscle groups and more than one joint, like the squat, deadlift, and bench press on those exercises. I particularly recommend the rep range of four to six, or five to seven, maybe even six to eight reps, which is gonna be somewhere around 82, 80 5% of your one rep.

And then on isolation exercises, which involve just one joint and one major muscle group, you can work with higher reps, less weight, somewhere closer to 75% of one rep max. Now, as far as routines go, there are many out there that you can follow that meet those criteria, but I recommend. That you start with a proven classic, like the push pull legs routine, which you can learn about [email protected] if you search for push pull legs, or you can follow one of the programs in my books for men and women, bigger than or stronger and thinly or stronger, which are built around a push pull legs routine.

All right, well, that’s it for the takeaways from the definitive and practical I two muscle hypertrophy. If you wanna learn more. The science of muscle growth listened to the full episode, and it was published on January 16th, 2019. And now let’s get to the featured snippets from the third episode of this Best of episode.

And that is my top five takeaways from the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Green. If you like what I’m doing here on the podcast and elsewhere, definitely check out my sports nutrition company Legion, which thanks to the support of many people like you, is the leading brand of all natural sports supplements in the world.

Okay, so let’s move on to my top five takeaways from the 48 Laws of Power. So here’s the first one, quote, because most people are too imprisoned in the moment to plan with this kind of foresight. The ability to ignore immediate dangers and pleasures. Translates into power. It is the power of being able to overcome the natural human tendency to react to things as they happen, and instead to train oneself to step back.

Imagining the larger things, taking shape beyond one’s immediate vision. Most people believe that they are in fact, aware of the future that they are planning and thinking. They are usually diluted. What they are really doing is succumbing to their desires, to what they want the future to be. Their plans are vague based on their imaginations rather than their reality.

They may believe they are thinking all the way to the end, but they are really only focusing on the happy ending and diluting themselves by the strength of their desire. So my note here is, One of the primary factors that has distinguished histories, grand strategists, is their singular focus on specific detailed goals.

They spend an inordinate amount of time contemplating their goals, imagining how it will feel to accomplish them, and visualizing how they will unfold and what success. Look like Napoleon was a good example of this. He believed that a strategist could create his own luck through calculation planning and flexibility.

So in preparation for a. Campaign for a military campaign, he would spend days pouring over maps and reconnaissance reports to develop an in-depth strategy that included all possible permutations of attacks and counter attacks that he and his opponents could make. Now, he was so good at this that.

Before the fighting even began, he would often point to exact spots on maps where he predicted the final battles would end and time and again, his prophecies proved uncannily correct. Now, while the stakes may be lower in our endeavors, we can still benefit greatly from. Similar approach. We can channel a bit of Napoleon’s power by clearly envisioning what we want to achieve, creating detailed and practical plans to realize our aims, and staying laser focused on executing our schemes.

Don’t underestimate how. Of a difference this can make in the quality of the long-term outcomes in your life. You see very few people create and follow concrete calculated plans of any kind really. Instead, they live in a myopic haze. Taking things as they come and just hoping for the best. And that’s why it’s no surprise, at least to me, that so many people are so unsatisfied in their lives, modern existence and our modern ambitions are just too big and too complex for this approach to work.

By meditating on the bigger pictures though, and by developing sensible strategies before setting out, you can greatly increase your chances of success. Okay, my second takeaway quote, recognize the fortunate so that you may choose their company and the unfortunate so that you may avoid them. Misfortune is usually the crime of folly, and among those who suffer from it, there is no malady, more contagious.

Never open your door to the least of misfortunes for if you do, many others will follow in its train. Do not die of another’s misery. Okay, so my note here is one of the easiest ways to sabotage yourself is to associate with unhappy and unfortunate people. Now, I know that might sound harsh, but it is.

True, regardless. Often such people are not victims of mere circumstances. They would have you believe, but are actively and often secretly working to bring disaster and misfortune on themselves and everyone around them. And even if someone doesn’t, Consciously intend to drag others through the mud with them.

Remember that their moods, their attitudes, their ideas are infectious. The more you are around such people, the more likely you are to become collateral damage. So when you suspect that you are connected to an infected as green calls them, do not try to help. Don’t try to explain yourself or argue with them and don’t pass them off to friends.

Simply cut your ties and flee to do anything else’s to risk becoming deeply and painfully enmeshed in their woes. Now, there is also an obvious corollary here as well, and it is that you should associate as much as you can with people who are a source of pleasure and happiness through their good cheer.

Their success and their intelligence. If you do, you can then allow their positive qualities to infect. Did I say that in scare quotes and uplift? You quote, timidity is dangerous, better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold.

No one honors the timid. So my note here is, We all have our weaknesses and our plans and our efforts will never be perfect, but nothing can overcome those deficiencies like sheer audacity and velocity. Boldness and speed encourage exhilarate. and empower us. They build morale. They create a sense of vitality, and they attract attention and admiration from others.

They’re also effective tools to use against our opponents and our enemies to put them on their heels and force them to act reactively rather than proactively. As Napoleon once said, you must be slow in deliberation and swift. In execution. Now, I think this is particularly true in business where you are not only working to outpace and out-maneuver your established competitors, the ones that you know about, but you have to also be protecting against incursions from startups who are looking to disrupt your success.

Yes, you need to be able to think strateg. And you need to be able to develop clear, practical, and feasible plans that span the course of months and even years, but you also need to be able to shift into high gear and execute your plans swiftly. And competently before their windows or opportunity close due to shifts in circumstances, competition or otherwise, whatever you do, you must not fall into the trap of waiting for everything to be just.

Right before you get into action. And that applies just as much I think, to any area of life as it does to business, because conditions will never be just right. Perfect is just an excuse that we like to use to stay comfortable and to maintain the status quo. So we need to start now. And adapt our plans as we go, and we need to remember that we will get further by leaning toward Impetuousness rather than cautiousness.

All right, well, that’s it for the highlights from my top five takeaways from the 48 Laws of Power by Robert Green, which again was published on January 7th, 2019. In case you want to go check it out and listen to more of my musings on that book. And that’s also all I have for this episode of Muscle for Life.

Thanks again for joining me, and as always, I have a lot more good stuff to come. I have a new q and a coming. Where I talk about vocabulary, building vegetable oils, and one meal a day, omad, as the cool kids call it. And then next week I’m gonna be talking about hyperventilating in your workouts to be stronger safely.

I know it sounds a little bit wild, but uh, it works and you’ll learn about it next week. And I also have an interview with my mom about how she used thinner, leaner, stronger to lose 11 pounds of fat and double. Whole body strength as well as another episode of Says You, where I address a few challenges, friendly challenges from readers and followers, things that people disagree with me on.

Those are always fun. All right. Well that’s it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it and found it interesting and helpful. And if you did and you don’t mind doing me a favor, please do leave a quick review on iTunes. Wherever you’re listening to me from in whichever app you’re listening to me in, because that not only convinces people that they should check out the show, it also increases search visibility and thus it helps more people find their way to me and learn how to get fitter, leaner, stronger.

Healthier and happier as well. And of course, if you want to be notified when the next episode goes live, then simply subscribe to the podcast and you won’t miss out on any new stuff. And if you didn’t like something about the show, please do shoot me an email at mike muscle for life.com. Just muscle f o r life.com and share.

On how I can do this better. I read everything myself and I’m always looking for constructive feedback. Even if it is criticism, I’m open to it, and of course you can email me if you have positive feedback as well, or if you have questions really relating to anything that you think I could help you with, definitely send me an email.

That is the best way to get ahold of me, [email protected]. That’s it. Thanks again for listening to this episode and I hope to hear from you soon.